Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like

Lapthorn/Arrow not complied with CPR 31.14 and 31.15***Claim Discontinued***


style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 3852 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

Hi, hoping for a little help:

 

Claim Issue Date: 21/6/13

Ack of Service sent

Letter to blake lapthorn sent 1/7/13

Telephoned them 12/7/12 and e-mailed 13/7/13 asking for response by 12pm Monday 15/7

Received e-mail today (16/7/12)confirming extension to file defence - date agreed 21/8/13

Sent e-mail to CCBC today, with e-mail attached advising of extension

 

I have spoken to Northampton today and they advised (prior to me receiving the extension) I should enter a defence detailing the facts and none supply of docs.

 

Blake Lapthorn confirmed in their e-mail that they do not have the documents;agreement, default notice, assignment and have requested them. However they cannot provide a firm date when they will receive as their client (Arrow Global) will need to obtain from the original creditor (Egg).

 

My questions are:

 

Do I wait and see what happens - if no documents, then enter a defence stating this by 21/8/13

enter a defence now and wait for response

send N244 with order for disclosure and if non compliance apply to be struck out

 

Hope someone can point me in the right direction.

 

Thanks

Link to post
Share on other sites

You can do all 3 but be careful on number 3 they will challenge your application.

 

Regards

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHER

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group - The National Consumer Service

If you want advice on your Topic please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for this. Would you recommend I put in a defence now on the grounds I do no have the docs or think it more prudent to wait and see what happens over the next few weeks? CCBC have not confirmed they accept the extension but the standard e-mail response says reply can take from 5-10 days.

 

Thanks

Link to post
Share on other sites

I would be very surprised if they did respond...even with your extension and extra time.Assignee/Claimants do not have any documentation re the actual debt they have to source it from the original creditor.

So in the absence of any documentation referred to in the particulars what will form the basis of your defence?

 

 

MCOL do not respond to or confirm CPR15.5 agreements that is purely between you and the claimant.

 

Regards

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHER

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group - The National Consumer Service

If you want advice on your Topic please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

Northampton advised that I should enter a defence stating I have not been provided with the documents and therefore cannot assess if the Claimant has a valid claim. They stated that if I do not enter a defence then I would probably receive a judgement by default. It was explained that once I had done this, the Claimant then needs to respond if they do not agree then it would go to mediation (Blake Lapthorn have since agreed to an extension)

 

In 2010 I requested original copies of the agreement and have done so from the numerous amount of DCA along the years. They have note been provided. I have also asked for this from Blake Lapthorn, in which they said they would get the docs, then a couple of weeks later I get the county court claim. Maybe this goes as part of my defence as I have never received a copy of the agreement, default notices or the original assignment. I have received an assignment this year from Arrow Global, dated May 2013, stating the account was assigned in Feb 2013, but the attached letter tells me the account was assigned in May 2011?

 

Regarding the CPR 15.5 as I have sent this to the court, will they ensure that AG/BL do not enter a default judgement, as the original date for a defence is 24/7/13

 

Thanks

Link to post
Share on other sites

Then in view of above I would enter the defence now irrespective of CPR 15.5...no use prolonging it.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHER

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group - The National Consumer Service

If you want advice on your Topic please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just thinking a little more about this. If I have asked for docs and stated if they do not have them then they need to get them. If I have then asked them for an extension so they can get the docs and provide me with time to review and prepare my case once received, will the court then look on me badly if I then enter a defence now and not wait for the paperwork I have requested? If I give them the time and they still do not provide the docs then maybe I am in a stronger position?

 

I am still worried that even though we have agreed an extension, AG/BL will still get a judgement by default next week. If this happens, then beacuse I have their agreement in writing would the court then have to reverse that (or will this never happen as I have an agreement with AG/BL, and I have provided this to the court.

 

Maybe I am just over thinking this

Link to post
Share on other sites

A defence is not based on what documents can and cannot be disclosed...if you are defending then you must be aware of a dispute in the first instance.Relying on none compliance and loop holes in documentation is risky business unless you are fully conversant with the CCA1974 and are prepared to argue any errors within the paperwork and why its unenforcible against council and District judges.

 

Regards

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHER

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group - The National Consumer Service

If you want advice on your Topic please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Hi,

 

So defence is in on lines of post 5 and court have sent a letter stating that defence has been sent to Claimant. They have 28 days to respond. I assume I just wait for the time to pass, they will then dispute late, DQ to be completed and returned and possibly mediation etc. Or if the 28 days passes do I just go to strike out with N244.

 

Hope you can assist. Thanks

Link to post
Share on other sites

[i]" Or if the 28 days passes do I just go to strike out with N244 "[/i]

 

I would refer you to my post #2..again this is not advisable

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHER

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group - The National Consumer Service

If you want advice on your Topic please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

Hi,

 

With the help of andyorch and all other valued members of this forum I have now received a Notice of Discontinuance against all of Arrows claim. I understand that I should be able to claim costs as a Litigant in Person and hoped for some further guidance. Thanks again for all the invaluable information and help on the site.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Great stuff. I managed to get costs from this same combo a while back so good luck

CAG has helped me so much since I joined. Based on what I have learnt from others on here and my own experiences, I try to chip in and help others from time to time. I am not an expert and give my opinion only. Always check with the more experienced CAG members before making important decisions.

:-)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well done Space hopper

 

Delighted that this has been resolved...I will amend your thread title to reflect the outcome.

 

You can only claim wasted costs if it is Fast Track.

 

Regards

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHER

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group - The National Consumer Service

If you want advice on your Topic please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes along with any courts fees you may have paid...be prudent though dont get carried away...a realistic figure.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHER

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group - The National Consumer Service

If you want advice on your Topic please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

andyorch, I have put this together using a format found on the site. Wondered if you could review and advise if acceptable or not. Thanks for your help:

 

The Claimant commenced proceedings in relation to an alleged agreement regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. The proceedings were defended.

On 20th November 2013 the Claimant served Notice of Discontinuance of the whole of its claim.

At all times the Defendant was a Litigant in Person within the meaning of Litigants in Person (Costs and Expenses) Act 1975 (as amended) and time spent by the Defendant is charged herein at an hourly rate of £18.

The case required the Defendant to spend time in examining documents and other papers which related to the proceedings.

The Defendant was obliged to spend time in considering and understanding numerous strands of law including the Law of Consumer Credit, the Law of Property Act, the law of limitation and practice of procedure in the County Court which he achieved through internet and library research.

The Defendant was obliged to spend time in drawing his defence and further obliged to consider the Notice of Discontinuance and its effect upon the litigation and his consequential rights and obligations to include his rights and obligations upon the matter of costs and the relevant rules and practice directions of the CPR in reference to the detailed assessments of costs as applied to Litigants in Person.

The following is a statement of the work done in the course of the proceedings. Where there is a charge for time spent, the amount of time recorded as spent represents the Defendants fair estimate of the amount of time spent by him

Claim (£)

1 21st June 2013

Particulars of Claim

 

2 28th June 2013

Acknowledgement of service

 

3 20th August 2013

Defence

 

4 20th November 2013

Claimants Notice of Discontinuance

 

 

Receiving and considering the Claim Form and Particulars of Claim (3 hrs) £54.00

Searching for and locating the papers and other documents relating

to the proceedings (4 hrs) £72.00

Acknowledgement of Service (1 hr) £18.00

Research regarding Law of Consumer Credit, Law of Property Act,

law of limitation (20 hrs) £360.00

Research regarding Civil Procedure Rules (excluding CPR 38 and CPR 44) (15 hrs) £270.00

Preparing Defence (4 hrs) £72.00

Receiving and considering Notice of Discontinuance (1 hr) £18.00

Research regarding CPR 38 and CPR 44 (10 hrs) £180.00

Research regarding detailed assessment proceedings and

Litigants in Person (Costs and Expenses) Act 1975 (10 hrs) £180.00

Preparing bill of costs (3 hrs) £54.00

Time spent in telephone calls, letters and emails written and received (4 hrs) £72.00

 

Summary

 

Costs payable by the Claimant £1350.00

Printing, Postage and Stationary costs £25.00

Telephone and Internet costs £18.00

 

Total costs payable by the Claimant to the Defendant £1393.00

Link to post
Share on other sites

My view is that is much too high and you're likely to recover less. However there's no harm in asking for more so you don't necessarily need to amend it as the judge will take a view anyway.

 

In particular "searching for and locating the papers" doesn't seem like something the other side should pay for. 10 hours of research on two parts of the CPR is excessive. Similarly 10 hours for researching costs and 3 hours preparing the schedule of costs seems too high. You should give more detail about telephone calls etc if you want to recover the cost.

 

Overall the judge will just use his experience to set a fairly arbitrary figure, he may decide that 10 hours in total is sufficient for instance , so it's just a case of giving it a go and seeing what you get really :-)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the comments mjt2013. Maybe I should break down the phone calls. I may revise the figures but I guess it makes no difference, I will only get what is felt to be fair (or what they are willing to pay). If Solicitors had been involved and say spent a total of 10 hours for all aspects @£250 per hour total cost would be £2500. I think they are getting a bargain!!

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think really it's a question of impression; if the overall figure and time seems too high the judge will just cut it down whereas a more reasonable schedule *might* lead you to recover more. Ultimately you'll need to be able to justify the entries and be able to honestly tell the judge that's how much time you spent.

Link to post
Share on other sites

If one reads together CPR48.6(2) and (4), in principle, a litigant in person is entitled to compensation for his time, and the rate is fixed by Statutory Instrument and at all relevant times is £18.00 per hour. But there is a cap which is that however long a litigant spends in person doing things he cannot recover more than, broadly speaking, two-thirds of what his legal representatives would have done if he had had a lawyer."

 

The 'no more than two thirds' rules applies in any event, but the amount (subject to that limit) is the greater of the loss of earnings or the hours spent at the prescribed hourly rate.

 

If you just look at the rules, CPR48.2 provides an overall limit. There is nothing to suggest that that limit may be exceeded by any later calculation.

 

http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part45-fixed-costs/practice-direction-45-fixed-costs

 

Regards

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHER

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group - The National Consumer Service

If you want advice on your Topic please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi, the rules and 48.6(2) and (4) are pretty straightforward so I believe my bill of cost would be valid. I am not sure why you have directed me to the link for fixed costs. This did not follow the small claims track as aleged amount was over £5k. CPR48.2 refers to none parties so I am a little confused. Hope you can help me.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...