Claim Form Received from Welcome/Haggarty/IND

[bmanc]

Hello everyone. Im hoping someone might be able to point me in the right direction as I am panicking and Losing sleep over the below. This is really affecting my work and my personal relationships and I really don't know what to do.

To summerise, on the 4th July, I received a letter from IND (Dated 17th June) titled LAST LETTER BEFORE LEGAL PROCEEDINGS. This was the first letter I have ever received from them.

 

The letter stated that I have an outstanding debt with Welcome Finance of £3845 and I have until the 1st July to respond before they refer this to court. It would appear that they sent the letter after the deadline date.

 

I sent an email to Welcome and IND on the 4th to ask for more information on this debt but didn't get a response to either. I then sent a CCA letter to IND on 8th July and then, as advised, I sent a Prove it letter to IND on 11th July.

 

On Friday I came home to a claim form from Northampton County Court for a total amount of £5010. I have never received anything in the form of statements or a breakdown of the debt. Just a letter with the above amount from IND.

 

I had a loan with Welcome many years ago. I couldn't even tell you when I last made a payment or how much the loan was for. I do know that there was PPI involved though. I'm positive about that.

 

I looked back over my credit file and there is nothing on there about Welcome Finance now but I have an archived Credit report that shows the debt with them as settled in 2007. This was removed from my credit file in December 2012 as it was older that 6 years.

 

I don't expect help with this but any advice would be very much appreciated.

Thank you in advance.

[bmanc]

Apologes for double posting. It wont let me edit my post for some reason.

Further to the above, should I acknowledge the claim and defend?

[Jimmy Jangle]

Acknowledge it online and defend in full, let's quickly explore the defence first:

 

Are you 100% certain that no payment/acknowledgement in writing from you was made in regards to this acc/debt within the last 6 years?

 

If you're certain, then this debt is certainly SB and is an absolute defence.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Jimmy Jangle

[bmanc]

Thank you so much for your reply. I was getting worried that this thread was going to be missed out.

 

I honestly couldnt tell you when I last made a payment. I am only going off what my credit file says and it says it was settled in 2007. I have taken drastic efforts to improve my credit over the past few years and I with the amount of debt I have paid off or am paying off at the moment, I simply couldnt say when I last made a payment.

 

It doesnt help that IND/Welcome havent sent through any breakdown of the debt, just a single letter with an amount. It could be SB but I wouldnt like to guarentee that.

[Jimmy Jangle]

OK, do you have access to a scanner?

 

scan the required letters/agreements/sheets as a picture file

remove all pers info inc barcodes etc using paint but leave all figures and dates.

goto one of the many free online pdf converter websites convert the image to pdf format.

or ir you have PDF as an installed printer driver use that

 

hit go advanced below the msg box

hit manage attachments below that box

hit the add files button on the top right

hit select files, navigate to your file on your pc

hit upload files

then hit reply button

[Jimmy Jangle]

ps. we need to get this done asap if we're to determine how to defend

[bmanc]

I do have access to a scanner but im at work and the letters are at home.

 

I will bring them to work tomorrow and scan them and upload.

 

Just to confirm so that im not wasting anyones time, which letters should I upload? The one I had from IND before the claim letter?

[Jimmy Jangle]

EVERYTHING - Refer to my thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?390785-Welcome-Hegarty-LLP-Claim-Form-received-dated-07-05-13

 

This should give you an idea of what you need to do; there a lots of others about that deal with the same issues - Welcome are trying to claw back as much as they can through default judgements because they're in default with the FSCS due to their PPI misselling...

 

Tell me bmanc, can you recall the manner you were sold the PPI - did they make out that you wouldn't get the loan without it?

[citizenB]

Can you let us know what the issue date of the claim is please - top right hand corner of the claim form.

 

Can you also let us know exactly what it says on the claim form - the reason they have issued the claim.

 

You say you have written to them in response to previous letters and they have ignored these ? Did you by any chance send these by tracked method and did you check they were received and signed for.

 

It sounds to me as though they have failed to engage in pre action protocol anyway.

 

Once you have provided the information above, we can advise you how best to deal with the claim.

[bmanc]

Jimmy, Ill get everything together tonight and scan it first thing.

 

Of the little I do remember, I remember being in their office and being told that I must take the PPI or they couldnt issue a loan. It was very much miss-sold

Again. Thank you.

[bmanc]

Hi citizen. The issue date is 5th July.

 

I will type up the claim as soon as I get home.

 

I sent the letter and emails on the dates in my original post and have had no response. I have not acknowledged the debt and all were sent special delivery.

 

Thank you.

[citizenB]

Ok, well your timeline will be as follows

 

Issue date 5th July + 5 days for service = 10 July + 14 to acknowledge claim = 24 July + 14 to submit defence = 7 August.

 

So you have a little time in hand - the most important date at the moment will be the 24th July - you MUST acknowledge the claim before that date.

[Jimmy Jangle]

OK, give me or a site admin a tap when you get the stuff up - I'll have a look over it to give my (albeit limited) assessment.

 

First things first though - don't panic, never ever let things like this take over your life and cause you to lose sleep - even if you lose and get a CCJ against you, you'll still have your health, and the courts are usually far more receptive than any creditor to your circumstances in regards to repayments.

 

Just keep us here in the loop as much as possible, and we'll do whatever we can to assist.

[bmanc]

 

Can you also let us know exactly what it says on the claim form - the reason they have issued the claim.

 

Once you have provided the information above, we can advise you how best to deal with the claim.

 

Hi Citizen.

 

Here is the particulars of the claim:

 

The Claimant claims for sums due under Fixed-Sum Loan Agreement(s) regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 entered into between the Claimant and the Defendant. The defendant failed to pay the contractual instalments in compliance with the terms of agreement(s). The term of the agreement(s) has expired. The Claimant complied with Section III and IV and Annex B of the PD Pre-Action Conduct.

And the Claimant Claims:

Personal Loan Account Number XXXXXXX arrears balance of 3,8xx.xx as of 1/1/10.

Interest under s69 of the County Court Act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year from 1/1/10 to 5/7/13 of 1,0xx.xx and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgement or earlier payments at a daily rate of 0.84 AND costs.

[bmanc]

So i got everything together last night to bring to work and scan in but left it at home. I will take some high quality photos tonight and upload.Hopefully the POC will be enough for now though.

Edited July 16, 2013 by bmanc

[citizenB]

Responding S.O.S.

 

Just having a quick read back over your thread

[citizenB]

Your credit file shows this account as having been settled in 2007 and dropped off your credit file in 2012 - although you have no recollection of the last payment.

 

On the credit file that you have - does it show any previous entries (default dates)

 

And is it Welcome who are the claimants ?

[bmanc]

There are no defaults on there. It simply shows as Settled

 

I honestly couldnt tell you when I last made a payment. No payments show on the credit file. The file is blank and a settled date in 2007. I have a copy of the report at home and will confirm specific dates this evening but i believe it was December 2007 that it was listed as settled

 

Welcome are the claimants. In the first letter from IND it gave strict instructions not to contact welcome.

[bmanc]

My main worry is not that I will have to pay money back (if I do owe then I am always willing to pay back). Its that this is going to Destroy my credit rating. Something that I have put lots of effort into and worked on for years. Putting myself in situations where I was struggling to survive sometimes, just to pay off my debts. I would finally have been all clear in 12 months from my last default and was hoping to get a mortgage over the next couple of years. Ive got no chance if these clowns get their way.

 

That and the fact that im sure this loan was for a less than £1000 initially. I cant see myself having borrowed much more than that. Now they want over 5 Grand.

[citizenB]

You need to send the following letters as soon as possible to the Solicitors named on the claim form.

 

The CPR 31.14 request is for a copy of the documents mentioned in the claim form eg the agreement and statements showing how they have arrived at the sum they are claiming.

 

CPR part 18 is for "information" - this is because they have NOT mentioned if they sent a default notice, if the account has been assigned etc. So if you can think of anything else to add to this 2nd letter that you might need then you can ask a question.. eg Did they do something, do they have a document etc, what you cant do is ask FOR the document.

 

 

 

 

CPR31.14 Request

 

 

Dear Sir,

 

Re: (Claimant's name) v (Your name) Case No:

 

CPR 31.14 Request

On (date) I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the (Name) county court.

 

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim.

 

[Prior to the issue of proceedings I had delivered a request for the production of the agreement mentioned in the Claim Form and on which you rely. That request was ignored] [delete if no such request was delivered]

 

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of each of the following document(s) mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

 

1: the agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

 

2: statements or statement of account showing how the amount being claimed has accrued - to identify any default/penalty charges.

 

Although your claim is for a sum which is not more than £10,000.00 and will in all likelihood be allocated to the small claims track for determination upon my delivering a defence, at this moment in time I have not delivered my defence and the case has not been allocated to a track. In consequence the provisions of CPR 27(2) are of no effect and you should not seek to avoid compliance with your CPR 31 duties by claiming otherwise.

 

 

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document(s) I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

 

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

 

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

 

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.

 

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

 

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

 

I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully

 

The following is a CPR Part 18 which I have explained you can only use to ask questions. I have included what I think you need, but if there is anything else you think you should know about then include it.

 

If the claimant is NOT Welcome then you are going to have ask the following question : -

 

Has this account been assigned ?

(a) On what date ?

(b) Was the defendant advised?

 

 

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]45207[/ATTACH]

[citizenB]

yes, if IND are the solicitors then you need to send all correspondence to them now.

 

Something that seems a little strange is that on the Claim form, they are only claiming statutory interest from 2010 ? I don't claim to understand why that is and will ask for you.

 

Send the two letters above by at the very least Recorded Delivery.

 

Make sure you keep the receipt and check in a couple of days to ensure it has been received and signed for.

 

You need to make sure you acknowledge the claim online by the date I gave you earlier, I think the 24th July but check.

 

If you don't receive a response from them within the dates we have given them, then it might be worth asking for more time.

[citizenB]

You need to send the following letters as soon as possible to the Solicitors named on the claim form.

 

The CPR 31.14 request is for a copy of the documents mentioned in the claim form eg the agreement and statements showing how they have arrived at the sum they are claiming.

 

CPR part 18 is for "information" - this is because they have NOT mentioned if they sent a default notice, if the account has been assigned etc. So if you can think of anything else to add to this 2nd letter that you might need then you can ask a question.. eg Did they do something, do they have a document etc, what you cant do is ask FOR the document.

 

 

 

 

CPR31.14 Request

 

 

Dear Sir,

 

Re: (Claimant's name) v (Your name) Case No:

 

CPR 31.14 Request

On (date) I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the (Name) county court.

 

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim.

 

[Prior to the issue of proceedings I had delivered a request for the production of the agreement mentioned in the Claim Form and on which you rely. That request was ignored] [delete if no such request was delivered]

 

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of each of the following document(s) mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

 

1: the agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

 

2: statements or statement of account showing how the amount being claimed has accrued - to identify any default/penalty charges.

 

Although your claim is for a sum which is not more than £10,000.00 and will in all likelihood be allocated to the small claims track for determination upon my delivering a defence, at this moment in time I have not delivered my defence and the case has not been allocated to a track. In consequence the provisions of CPR 27(2) are of no effect and you should not seek to avoid compliance with your CPR 31 duties by claiming otherwise.

 

 

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document(s) I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

 

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

 

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

 

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.

 

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

 

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

 

I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully

 

The following is a CPR Part 18 which I have explained you can only use to ask questions. I have included what I think you need, but if there is anything else you think you should know about then include it.

[citizenB]

As you have confirmed that Welcome are the claimants, you can ignore the request for details of assignment.

[bmanc]

Thank you. I will get these out as soon as possible by special delivery. Should they be sent sepearatley or does that not matter? Should I raise the questions about PPI in the second letter or should I leave that for now?

 

sorry for all the questions. I know you guys do this out of the kindness of your own hearts so I definately dont want to take your help for granted.

[bmanc]

should I leave out Part 18 then? The PDF seems to have been deleted since your edit.

Edited July 16, 2013 by bmanc