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    • Hi, despite saying you would post it up we have not seen the WS or EVRis WS. Please can you post them up.
    • Hi, Sorry its taken me so long to get round to this, i've been pretty busy today. Anyway, just a couple of things based on your observations.   Evri have not seen/read my WS (sent by post and by email) as they would have recognised the claim value is over £1000 as it includes court fees, trial fees, postage costs and interests, and there is a complete breakdown of the different costs and evidence. I'd say theres a 1% chance they read it , but in any case it won't change what they write. They refer to the claim amount that you claimed in your claim form originally, which will likely be in the same as the defence. They use a simple standard copy and paste format for WX and I've never seen it include any amount other than on the claim form but this is immaterial because it makes no difference to whether evri be liable and if so to what value which is the matter in dispute. However, I have a thinking that EVRi staff are under lots of pressure, they seem to be working up to and beyond 7pm even on fridays, and this is quite unusual so they likely save time by just copying and pasting certain lines of their defence to form their WX.   Evri accepts the parcel is lost after it entered their delivery network - again, this is in my WS and is not an issue in dispute. This is just one of their copy paste lines that they always use.   Evri mentions the £25 and £4.82 paid by Packlink - Again, had they read the WS, they would have realised this is not an issue in dispute. They probably haven't read your WS but did you account for this in your claim form?   Furthermore to the eBay Powered By Packlink T&Cs that Evri is referring to, Clauses 3b and c of the T&Cs states:  (b)   Packlink is a package dispatch search engine that acts as an intermediary between its Users and Transport Agencies. Through the Website, Users can check the prices that different Transport Agencies offer for shipments and contract with the Transport Agency that best suits their needs on-line. (c)  Each User shall then enter into its own contract with the chosen Transport Agency. Packlink does not have any control over, and disclaims all liability that may arise in contracts between a User and a Transport Agency This supports the view that once a user (i.e, myself) selects a transport agency (i.e Evri) that best suits the user's needs, the user (i.e, myself) enters into a contract with the chosen transport agency (i.e, myself). Therefore, under the T&Cs, there is a contract between myself and Evri.   This is correct but you have gone into this claim as trying to claim as a third party. I would say that you need to pick which fight you wan't to make. Either you pick the fight that you contracted directly with EVRi therefore you can apply the CRA OR you pick the fight that you are claiming as a third party contract to a contract between packlink and EVRi. Personally, I would go with the argument that you contracted directly with evri because the terms and conditions are pretty clear that the contract is formed with EVRi and so if the judge accepts this you are just applying your CR under CRA 2015, of which there has only been 2 judges I have seen who have failed to accept the argument of the CRA.   Evri cites their pre-existing agreement with Packlink and that I cannot enforce 3rd party rights under the 1999 Act. Evri has not provided a copy of this contract, and furthermore, my point above explains that the T&Cs clearly explains I have entered into a contract when i chose Evri to deliver my parcel.    This is fine, but again I would say that you should focus on claiming under the contract you have with EVRi as you entered into a direct contract with them according to packlink, as this gives less opportunites for the judge to get things wrong, also I think this is a much better legal position because you can apply your CR to it, if you dealt with a third party claim you would likely need to rely on business contract rights.   As explained in my WS, i am the non-gratuitous beneficiary as my payment for Evri's delivery service through Packlink is the sole reason for the principal contract coming into existence. I wouldn't focus this as your argument. I did think about this earlier and I think the sole focus of your claim should be that you contracted with evri and any term within their T&Cs that limits their liability is a breach of CRA. If you try to argue that the payment to packlink is the sole reason for the contract coming in between EVRI and packlink then you are essentially going against yourself since on one hand you are (And should be) arguing that you contracted directly with EVRi, but on the other hand by arguing about funding the contract between packlink and evri you are then saying that the contract is between packlink and evri not you and evri.  I think you should focus your argument that the contract is between you and evri as the packlink T&C's say.   Clearly Evri have not read by WS as the above is all clearly explained in there.   I doubt they have too, but I think their witness statement more than anything is an attempt to sort of confuse things. They reference various parts of the T&Cs within their WS and I've left some more general points on their WS below although I do think  point 3b as you have mentioned is very important because it says "Users can check the prices that different Transport Agencies offer for shipments and contract with the Transport Agency that best suits their needs on-line." which I would argue means that you contract directly with the agency. For points 9 and 10 focus on term 3c of the contract  points 15-18 are the same as points 18-21 of the defence if you look at it (as i said above its just a copy paste exercise) point 21 term 3c again point 23 is interesting - it says they are responsible for organising it but doesnt say anything about a contract  More generally for 24-29 it seems they are essentially saying you agreed to packlinks terms which means you can't have a contract with EVRI. This isnt true, you have simply agreed to the terms that expressly say your contract is formed with the ttransport agency (EVRi). They also reference that packlinks obligations are £25 but again this doesn't limit evris obligations, there is nothing that says that the transport agency isnt liable for more, it just says that packlinks limitation is set. for what its worth point 31 has no applicability because the contract hasn't been produced.   but overall I think its most important to focus on terms 3b and 3c of the contract and apply your rights as a consumer and not as a third party and use the third party as a backup   
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Natwest Mortgage shortfall account/Default vanished on 6yrs expiry - now its back - help


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THREAD NOTE:

the OP talks of a CCJ

this is infact a DEFAULT MARKER

ignore the reference to it being a CCJ.

dx - siteteam

...........................................................

 

 

Hi All, the is my forst post on CAG.

 

I have a question, which im hoping the community will be able to advice me on if it is legal, and if not the steps to take to resolve this.

 

7 and a half years ago, i split with my X wife, which was quite a bitter split. In her wisdom, when we split and put the marital home up for sale, a few weeks later my x wife took the house off the market, stating i had never asked for her permission to sell the house, and she refused to sell the house even though she had moved out when we split.

 

Consuquetly, the house was repossed and a CCJ was rejistered against me.

 

I did try and come to an amicable agreement with the Natwest where by i was responsible for half the debt (£16,800), and my x wife was responsible for the other half, and once my half was paid off it would show as settled on my record, which they rejected.

 

So, i thought i would wait out the 6 years, for the CCJ to expire. During this time we have moved twice, and i have not received any letter from anyone for about 2 years relating to the CCJ, so im actually unsure who actually own's the debt (Natwest or DCA)

 

The debt did expire on May 31st 2013, and did 'dissapear' off my credit file. I pay a monthly subscription to experian so regually check my file. Last week the payments started showing again on my credt file as 6 months in arrears and deliquent.

 

After alot of research i was under the impression that once the CCJ had expired after 6 years, that was that, unless of course they tried to re-rejister to the courts for a CCJ. Im thinking of getting legal advice, however before going through the cost i thought i'd see what my options are on here.

 

So my questions are:

 

1. Is it true the Natwest or any DCA can rejister these late payments that have just appeared on my Credit Report after the six years

 

2. If not, what are my options to have these removed from my credit file?

 

We where hoping to buy a new house in the next 6 months, however that is going to be impossible with this on my file :(

 

All help is VERY greatfully apreciated in advance

Edited by citizenB
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Ummm, a CCJ does not expire, although after a such a long time, it would be very difficult for them to enforce. If it is no longer on either your credit file or trust online (which keeps a record of CCJs for 6 years) I am not sure if anyone searching your files would be aware there was a judgment made.

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PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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I am also a bit puzzled when you say the entries have started to reappear. If the entries have done the 6 years, then they cant simply start recording them again ??

 

I will try and find someone with more knowledge.

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2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Is this resulting from a mortgage under seal? NW may be claiming that the default should be maintained for 12 years as this is the limitation period on mortgage debts.

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What exactly was the judgment debt for - the shortfall after repossession ?

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2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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What exactly was the judgment debt for - the shortfall after repossession ?

On the same tack here CB.

 

NW have been known not to adhere to the Council of Mortgage Lenders code of not pursuing shortfalls after 6 years with no contact.

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Hi CitizenB, many thanks for you reply :)

 

In answer to your 2 posts. Although i was aware a CCJ never effectively 'expires', they do do habe to re apply to the county courts to re-enforce the CCJ, of which i should be sent correspondence for to defend my case.

 

I phoned experian yesterday, and he did tell me that it wasnt a ccj, but a deliquent account which was 6 months behind in payments? I have NEVER in 6 years made a payment?

 

Im now thinking that maybe this debt has been bought by a DCA, and they are trying to pull a fast one maybe? However, i dont actually know who the debt belongs to???

 

Under Seal? I have no idea? unfortuently, i have none of the original documentation

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If this account previously showed as a DEFAULT entry once removed it should NOT be reinstated.

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What exactly was the judgment debt for - the shortfall after repossession ?

 

Yes, this was the shortfall after the sale of the house

 

If this account previously showed as a DEFAULT entry once removed it should NOT be reinstated.

 

 

It is no longer showing as default, but 6 payments late, which has resulted in plumiting my credit score **Edit**: It was rejistered as a CCJ, not a default

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Then I think that you need to find out who is doing this and write asking them to stop.

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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Hi CitizenB, many thanks for you reply :)

 

In answer to your 2 posts. Although i was aware a CCJ never effectively 'expires', they do do habe to re apply to the county courts to re-enforce the CCJ, of which i should be sent correspondence for to defend my case.

I phoned experian yesterday, and he did tell me that it wasnt a ccj, but a deliquent account which was 6 months behind in payments? I have NEVER in 6 years made a payment?

Im now thinking that maybe this debt has been bought by a DCA, and they are trying to pull a fast one maybe? Hoever, i dont actually know who the debt belongs to???

 

That is very possible... could i possibly suggest you make some enquiries with natwest... and find out who it is with?

I dont know if under Mortgages they would transfer to a DCA and also arrange a "Notice of assignment" etc

 

We could do with some help from you.

 

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**Fko-Filee**

Receptaculum Ignis

 

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Ok The Council of Mortgage Lenders agreed that their members would not pursue shortfalls after 6 years in line with the 6 year limitation on other debts.

I suggest contacting the Data Controller at NatWest to challenge this (in writing).

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I did call natwest on saturday, but there litigation dept was shut. I am going to call them tomorrow to get more information

 

many thanks

 

Ok The Council of Mortgage Lenders agreed that their members would not pursue shortfalls after 6 years in line with the 6 year limitation on other debts.

I suggest contacting the Data Controller at NatWest to challenge this (in writing).

 

 

So in laymans terms, this means, that the debt should be erased, and im within my legal rights to challenge the record and have it removed?

 

Apologies for the blutness, but all this vERY alien to me :(

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Ok Dave, please let us know the outcome.

 

There are intricasies involving the Limitations on Mortgage debts that some will happily use to mislead.

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As it was a joint mortgage I wonder if your ex may have been paying off part of the CCJ and having now stopped, NW or whoever is after the balance.

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Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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Yes, if it has been sold then NW will say they are no longer involved at that point a Subject Access Request (SAR) will be needed.

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Nemo Mortalium Omnibus Horis Sapit: Animo et Fide:

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I can assure you, this is NOT the case

 

I did think it was unlikely going on what you said!

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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Yes, if it has been sold then NW will say they are no longer involved at that point a Subject Access Request (SAR) will be needed.

 

Does the SAR have to be made to the Natwest. Also, if i wright to the company who have the debt, will i have yo quote any paticular legal acts, or bluntly tell them to stop recording late payments on my credit file? How long will it take for these entries to be removed once acknowleged?

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This was a joint mortgage, yes ?

 

Were you both issued with claims and judgments ?

 

You are aware that you are both responsible for the debt - is it likely that your ex is making payments or has acknowledged the debt ?

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Yes to the Data Controller at the London head office.

 

There is an excellent template in the CAG library for you to use Dave, there is a £10 statutory fee to pay NW have 40 days to comply.

 

The request is made under the Data Protection Act 1998.

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Does the SAR have to be made to the Natwest. Also, if i wright to the company who have the debt, will i have yo quote any paticular legal acts, or bluntly tell them to stop recording late payments on my credit file? How long will it take for these entries to be removed once acknowleged?

 

Don't write to any 3rd party Dave before coming back here please!!

Any Letters I Draft are N0T approved by CAG and no personal liability is accepted.

Please Consider making a donation to keep this site running!

Nemo Mortalium Omnibus Horis Sapit: Animo et Fide:

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