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    • Hi all   Firstly, thanks for all the helpful threads on here. Whilst there's a lot to read and get through, it's both helpful and reassuring to see so much great advice and support to others in similar situations.   I've received a letter and a Claim Form from Moriarty for an ADCB CC debt. I'm presently in a DMP for existing UK debts and (probably like many others) I truly don't know the best way forward, as time is clearly of the essence - but I don't feel I've 'up to speed' yet on all the other threads, advice, lingo etc. to respond accordingly.   I'm looking at drafting the PAP and getting it of tomorrow, but just want to get into the other threads to see if it's the right thing (and get more info on similar cases).   Please feel free to comment with any advice - all gratefully received of course. Thanks again for anyone that's posted in other threads and great to see so many kind and generous respondents helping others.
    • nothing you can do can product against the very rare judge lottery syndrome.
    • not sure why you added the blue line I've highlighted? that's no in the we gave you.   as for your question... PRAC's roboclaim computer knows when the account was taken out, after all it raised the claim and checked everything carefully first before issuing the request via northants bulk courts equally inept roboclaim computer... 
    • I've been researching in preparation of compiling my particularised defence/WS.    I'm none too happy that some judges still seem to be siding with DCAs and seemingly brushing aside anything that we have assumed to be "necessary" for DCAs to have a winning case.    Reading a recent "summary" from another poster (another thread with case similar to mine - very old, illegible application form, no default notice, reliance on their own software to prove it was ever sent) and the judgment made in favour of the DCA and even suggesting that there was no "agreement with the DCA, they simply owned the debt, not the agreement"  Makes me very nervous.    Especially if cases like this will be judged on "probability" - the probability that if I signed the original application form, then I must have taken out the credit card and racked up the alleged debt as shown in statements enclosed in their WS (and dated some ten years later).   Is it ok to post some "evidence" I've found from elsewhere?    This is in line with my fears that regardless of how hard one tries to rebut the "lack of evidence" produced by DCAs for chasing these very old "alleged" debts, it does appear to come down to the luck of what judge you get on the day and how much they can be swayed by the DCA solicitor.    A quick Google search produced the following - from one case - this related to a credit agreement - which resulted in someone being made bankrupt - that person appealed the bankruptcy order on the grounds of defective credit agreement and default notice and this was the appeal judge's decision:   The necessary formalities for the entry into the regulated consumer credit agreement (which related to the debt in issue) were not complied with; The default notice served in respect of that credit agreement was defective.   The First Ground The Appellant argued that she did not receive the terms and conditions when she entered into the credit agreement and, accordingly, section 61 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (“CCA”) had not been complied with and the agreement could not be enforced. The agreement had been entered in 1995 and, whilst it had provided a microfiche copy of the front page of the application, the Respondent had been unable to provide a copy of the terms.   Despite the terms not being produced, the District Judge had found that, in the circumstances, it was very likely that such terms existed and would have been provided to the Appellant when she entered into the Agreement. Mr Justice Mann held that this was a finding that the District Judge was entitled to make.   Further, Mr Justice Mann found that it was implicit from the District Judge’s findings that she considered that the terms and conditions not only existed but had been subscribed to by the Appellant’s signature and, consequently, the requirements of section 61 CCA were fulfilled. Mr Justice Mann held that this was also a justifiable finding which should not be interfered with on appeal.   The Second Ground The Appellant also argued that the default notice upon which the Respondent relied did not comply with the Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notice) Regulations 1989 because it stated the full balance of the account rather than the total of the missed payments. The Respondent argued that, as a result of the missed payments, it was contractually entitled to the entire balance subject to the service of the appropriate notice, a requirement which was fulfilled by the default notice itself and, consequently, the sum required to remedy the breach was the entire amount.   Mr Justice Mann agreed with the Respondent and the District Judge, holding that: “If by the time the default notice is served circumstances have arisen which entitle the lender to recover not merely sums which might be regarded as arrears, by which I assume is meant accumulated minimum payments, but also the whole of the sum, then they are entitled to claim that sum, and the sum to require to remedy the breach for non-payment of that sum is the payment of the whole sum due. The bank is not confined, at that stage, to claiming merely the amount of arrears if it has an accrued contractual right to have the whole of the sum.”   Do judgments like these not mean that a lot of what you guys do on here (and for which I and many others are VERY grateful) somewhat redundant. What is happening to judges just accepting "well, the terms must have been there if you signed it" -    Feeling quite nervous now.
    • we know it wasn't done to avoid enforcement we understand completely. but that doesn't take from away the fact that it happened   you can't appeal the pcn's on the basis that 'it was not his vehicle to levy upon'. the law clearly states otherwise.          
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Hi .I need some advice

 

my 20 year old son a year ago was taken to magistrates court for not having a £1.80 train ticket .

He as they do ignored this .

 

This became a £00.00 debt with costs etc which he arranged to pay monthly

and did until he became unemployed towards the end of last year .

 

The debt was moved to collectica .

 

I called when they notified him they adding more to the O/S balance

and after he gave his authority for them to talk to me I explained he was unemployed

and waiting for benefit to be sorted and wanted to make an arrangement to pay but currently he had no income .

 

They told me that wasnt their problem and needed proof he was unemployed.

 

They said they would send bailiffs and i explained he didnt own anything and had no income or money .

Again I was told they were not interested .

 

I sent the required documents to show he was unemployed and heard nothing from them

 

until a bailiffs letter was pushed through the door .

 

I again called and said that he had now managed to secure a temp job for 3 months

so would be able to make payment at the end of june .

 

They said they would not up the file but had never been told or notified he was unemployed

and that they would not stop the bailiff action .

 

He called at the end of June and made a payment that they excepted and charged him to make by his debit card .

 

Today I have received another bailiffs letter saying they are calling tomorrow a

nd will force entry into my house and take possession for the debt .

 

I called the bailiff explained this was my home and my son had no possessions here apart from clothes etc

and that he was making payment and would make a further payment at the end of this month .

 

He said he wasnt interested and would be calling and forcing entry.

 

I said i would report him to the police if he broke into my home or forced entry .

He then told me not to threaten him and that he had a warrant as it is a magistrates court debt

so he can and will force entry into my home .

 

I have read confusing information online and I am really at a loss what to do .

I now will have to not go to work tomorrow for fear he will break into my house .

 

Please help as i really dont know what to do I cant afford to pay the debt which is now nearly £600.00

and neither can my son only having secured a 3 month contract

 

Michelle

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Did he ever file for a variation order so he can show the court his I&E and have payments reduced?


Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

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No wasnt aware that could be done we tried ti set up and agreement with the debt collectors but as I have said they were not very helpful . I just dont know what my rights are re this bailiff

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If its a court order, then you file it through the court. Bailiffs do not care about the debtor. They just want the money.


Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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There is little point the bailiff calling if he doesnt have any assets. WHat you must do is keep windows and doors locked, go to the nearest court and file a statutory declaration ( takes around 10-15 mins) to the effect that everything in your house is yours and he doesnt own anything.

 

Unless you follow the rules and get things filed, the bailiff will carry on regardless. In their eyes, theyve heard every excuse in the book.


Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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A Statutory declaration at the magistrates court that all goods and chattels are yours may help mention that the bailiffs are being obstructive and threatening you personally, a third party to the debt. Others will have better advice


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Also note that the bailiffs cannot force entry without a court order.

If you get that stat dec done and file a variation order,

if they try and get a court order, it will be refused.

 

DO it first thing in the morning and it will give you some breathing space.

 

The reason bailiffs are involved now is because a court order was made,

but your son didnt advise them of his new circumstances so a variation order could be made.


Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

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yes I get that but I wanted some advice on what I can do when this bailiff calls tomorrow as I can not get a court variation before the time he has said he will be calling and now ...di I have to let them in ..can they force entry if i am out ..can they force entry if i am here and refuse to let them in ?

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Did he ever file for a variation order so he can show the court his I&E and have payments reduced?

 

Not applicable as this is a Magistrates Court Fine.


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ok so they can not force entry ..I dont have to allow them in and I need to get to the magistrates court and declare all in my own belongs to me and my son needs to contact the court for a variation order .is that it in a nutshell ?

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oh confused again so a variation order cant be agreed with the court .Who can agree a payment arrangement

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You need to impress on the magistrates court staff that the named debtor has nothing of value at your address, and all the goods and chattels there are yours, as per the Stat Dec, then mention payment arrangements are being refused by the bailiff who is continuing to threaten you with taking YOUR goods for this debt.


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ok i can look to do that in the morning ..but do they have right to force entry as he says he has a warrant and that he will be bringing a locksmith and the police to gain entry

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Not applicable as this is a Magistrates Court Fine.

 

Gotcha. Thanks for the info.


Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

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magistrates warrant, they can force entry but it is rare

 

its a CRIMINAL FINE, .

 

not a civil matter.


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ok i can look to do that in the morning ..but do they have right to force entry as he says he has a warrant and that he will be bringing a locksmith and the police to gain entry

 

prob al willy waving.

 

if your son can pay, pay THE COURT DIRECTLY.

 

get him to go tell the court he is un-en and cannot pay.

 

they'll sort it.

 

dx


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thanks for all the posts ..still not sure what rights this bailiff against my home and my possessions when he calls tomorrow and if he can force me to let him in

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Can the bailiff force entry into my home?

 

If the bailiff is pursuing you for an unpaid fine of a criminal nature…then the answer unfortunately is... yes.

However, this is more of a threat and during the past year it would appear that bailiffs forced entry into a property to enforce a Distress Warrant on less that 10 occasions.

 

The right for bailiffs acting on behalf of the Magistrates Court the power to “enter and search any premises” for the purpose of executing a Warrant of Distress

was granted under Paragraph 3 of Schedule 4A of the Magistrates Courts Act 2004.

This provision was also then inserted into the Domestic Violence, Crime and Victims Act 2004.

 

The right to force entry however only applies to the collection of unpaid fines which are criminal matters.

 

nicked from somewhere!!

 

dx


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The enforcement of court fines is a very confusing matter and sadly there IS the right to force entry (although there are many conditions imposed and it is still quire rare.

 

Crucially, if the bailiff were to force entry it is purely in order to remove goods belonging to THE DEBTOR. If your son was 35 years old there may be a problem convincing a bailiff that he does not own any goods by frankly, with your son being just 20 years old an bailiff in their right mind would know that the chances of you son owning all the gods in the property are remote.

 

The bad news is that the bailiff will be trying to get YOU to pay your son's debt and this is easily done by threatening the use of a locksmith. In the main this is a "threat" and you will need to be very firm and refuse to deal with the bailiff.

 

This is NOT your fine and therefore you should not be paying this debt.

 

Do you know which court is dealing with this debt?

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Good advice from tomtubby, hopefully it clarifies what the bailiff is trying to do, if for example he levies, takes and sells YOUR car for this debt, irrespective of it being a magistrates fine, he and his company would be in the soup, just like a frog being boiled by stealth, as his action is then criminal of itself, viz theft of motor vehicle. At all times the bailiff cannot seize third party, your goods for your sons debt, he would like you to pay it though.

 

Incidentally, I wonder if Collectica muppetry will come under investigation, their parent company Serco having been caught out acting fraudulently?


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Incidentally, I wonder if Collectica muppetry will come under investigation, their parent company Serco having been caught out acting fraudulently?

 

 

 

It is well known in the "enforcement" industry that HMCTS will shortly be looking at tendering for a "Partner" to undertake all aspects of Magistrate Court FINES and it is a known fact that Serco were looking to the future when they purchased Philips back in 2011.

 

Yesterday afternoon I was reading a copy of the press release that they sent to me back in 2011 and I remember calling their press office at the time to question how they had calculated that court enforcement/fines etc would be worth over £5 BILLION to the company !!! I never did get a straight answer !!!

 

I would think that other "bidders" for the HMCTS court contracts will be delighted at yesterdays news.

 

PS: As I understand it, companies that currently have the HMCTS contracts will NOT be bidding.

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It is well known in the "enforcement" industry that HMCTS will shortly be looking at tendering for a "Partner" to undertake all aspects of Magistrate Court FINES and it is a known fact that Serco were looking to the future when they purchased Philips back in 2011.

 

Yesterday afternoon I was reading a copy of the press release that they sent to me back in 2011 and I remember calling their press office at the time to question how they had calculated that court enforcement/fines etc would be worth over £5 BILLION to the company !!! I never did get a straight answer !!!

 

I would think that other "bidders" for the HMCTS court contracts will be delighted at yesterdays news.

 

PS: As I understand it, companies that currently have the HMCTS contracts will NOT be bidding.

 

Perhaps then they are trying to get as much as they can by whatever means before they are out on their ears?


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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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I don't believe that they will be "out on their ears" at all. What will be happening is that various companies will be seeking contracts with the HMCTS new "Partner" . After all, bailiffs will still be required to enforce unpaid court fines although it is to be expected that if the new "Partner" carries out the Contract well that the number of distress warrants SHOULD reduce significantly.

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Good Morning All and thank you for the advice .

 

Just an update on what happened

 

I called collectica to try and make a payment arrangement . They would not talk to me their automated system just kept sating once the ref number had been entered that it was with the bailiffs and to talk to them . So called said Bailiff and asked if he was empowered to agree a payment arrangement he said he will only accept full payment or goods . So I asked if that meant he wasnt empowered to agree a payment arrangement he again repeated his previous response . So I told him again there were no goods here that belonged to my son and he didnt have the money to pay in full .He just said he would make a note of that and hung up .

 

So I then rang the court where the fine had been issued from ..After quite a bit of the its with the bailiffs I eventually found out that the warrant ( and they couldnt tell me the rights of the bailiff which I thought odd as they issued the warrant )only stays with the balliff for a small amount of time . It is then returned to the court and at that time a payment arrangement can be made with the court . Luckiliy the lady I spoke to said she would find out when it was being returned to the court and comeback to me .She did and guess what it was being returned to the court that day so no balliff would be calling .

 

Call me cynical but I think that because I pushed at the magistrates court saying no one would agree a payment arrangement even though collectica had taken payment from my son maybe pushed them into getting the warrant back to them .

 

Thanks again for all the advice

 

M

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Glad you got the right result. Collectica are part of Serco, perhaps they will be investigated for fraudulent practices along with Serco. Methinks they thought if they pressured you you would pay up, after they realised your son was not a prospect, notwithstanding you would have to appraise the court of the futility of enforcing against the named debtor at your property, there being no property belonging to him there, so any levy void.


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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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