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    • Hi all   I will dive straight into my scenario.    I have a personal Barclaycard credit card that I defaulted on in first half of 2015.  This debt has been bought out by Hoist in 2019.  I have not made payments since the first half of 2015 to the account. I am pretty sure I have not acknowledged the debt to the DCA that occasionally contacted me since then The six year anniversary of the default will arrive in the first half of 2021. I recently received a 'Letter of Claim' from Howard Cohen Solicitors informing me of Hoists intention to issues proceedings in the County Court for the outstanding amount. The letter states I have 30 days in which to reply.  The letter states that it is written in accordance with the Pre-action Protocol for Debt claims. They have provided a brief summary of the outstanding debt but not the original signed agreement.  My feeling is that the pressure is being ramped up because of the upcoming six year anniversary of the default.   I am not sure whether I should; A). Ignore the letter (if so what are the consequences). B). Stall for a little more time until the six year anniversary of the default arrives, and whether engaging with them too has its own set of consequences. C). Pay too much attention to the six year anniversary of the default  - as I am not sure if a debt becomes automatically statute barred after six years in which I have not acknowledged that debt.    Like many, I have been hit by Covid economically.  I have not worked most of this year.  I am operating at substantial loss with funds fast drying up. The work position doesn't seem to be changing any time soon. I am not claiming benefits or anything.   Any suggestions for plan of action would be gratefully received.   Thank you   Arthur M.                        
    • Hi Manxman, Yes, the contract was signed on-line and I'm relying on s31 of CCR.  I think what you are alluding to is the fact that if the contract started within the first 14days and if it was commenced with the expressed consent of the consumer (on a durable medium such as letter or email not phone call or webforms), then the consumer has to be pay for the portion of the services that was provided. Also, if the service has already been completed (which is not the case here as the service will be completed after 12months from the commencement of the tenancy which never commenced) then, full service fee is payable. In this case, no express consent was given - I have checked all my emails to them so they cannot charge for the portion of the services either i.e. arranging some viewings and finding a prospective tenant. In fact, I offered to pay for the reference check costs but they want it all. There was an implementing guidance on CCR2013 which categorically says that the regulation applies to letting agent's services - I have attached it here. At the end of the day, regulations are regulations and if anything, consumer is recognized as the weaker bargaining party as the contract was created by the business. Please google Robertson vs Swift - case prior to CCR 2013 came in where the supreme court ruled in favour of the consumer and went above and beyond what the regulation said at the time (although it derived some criticism).  bis-13-1368-consumer-contracts-information-cancellation-and-additional-payments-regulations-guidance (1).pdf
    • No I didn't, in 2018 my laptop was unable to download open office.   I have attached the ci sheet from 2017, with all the charges listed up to then.   StatIntSheet v101 Charges V2.xls
    • According to MCOL,the claim was registered as issued on 23 November so that makes it 12 December by my reckoning-I wasn't sure if you counted the 14 days from the 5th day or the day after so I went for the latest possible date.
    • nickpatel - presumably you entered into this contract with the agent off-premises if you were thinking of possibly trying to use s31 of the CCR?   If that is the case then I was under the impression (although I may well be mistaken) that the 14 day cancellation right was lost in the case of a contract for services, if the provision of those services commenced within the 14 day period, which would make whether or not you were informed of the right a moot point as it would no longer apply(?).   In any case, I'm also a bit surprised that a situation could arise where the initial "cancellation period" of a contract for services could be extended to over 12 months.  It seems a bit extreme to me that the 14 day off-premises cancellation provisions would apply here.  But I may be wrong.   I tend to agree with BankFodder that you'd be on firmer ground arguing the amount of the fee claimed (for a full year) is unfair.  But I'm not sure you could get away with arguing that you owe nothing - even though there is no tenancy agreement.  The agent seems to have done what they agreed to do, but you decided to reject the prospective tenant on the grounds that they were not "transparent"(?) because they wanted to view the property for a third time.  I'm not sure a court would find that reasonable on your part and would probably consider that the agent deserves to be paid in some respect for their work in finding that prospective tenant.   I think I'd be trying to settle on a reasonable sum rather than arguing that there was no liability at all.
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parking Eye PCN - Lost POPLA appeal - what are my chances in court?


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Guys,

 

I have just had my parking fine appeal refused by POPLA.

 

I believe I am in the right with this and was prepared to take it to the next level if Armtrac (the car park operator) wish to do so.

The questions I was looking to get some response to are:

 

1) “should I lose the case,

how much more expenses than the £100 fine could there be

e.g. with legal costs etc of Armtrac, cost of hearing etc???

 

In a similar vein if I win the case can I claim against Armtrac?

I am retired but work just a few days a year as a consultant for which my fees are substantial

– if successful II would seek to claim on this basis (and donate to a pet/animal charity).

 

2) What would be my chances of winning based on the information below

 

I picked up the parking fine in March at Sennen Beach Cafe (sadly while waiting for a dog to be cremated),

 

I had bought a parking ticket but Armtrac say that it was “not clearly displayed”.

 

I used the car park in order to have a coffee at the Sennen Beach Cafe who own the car park and have contacted the owner

- but he is not going to help.

 

This is was the basis of the appeal sent to POPLA:

 

 

Grounds for Appeal

 

 

1) The Information Required was Clearly Visible.

The requirements given by Armtrac (see Document 1 attached to EMAIL) are that

“For a pay and display ticket to be valid it must be displayed face up clearly showing the date and expiry time on the dashboard of the vehicle”.

 

The photograph provided by the patrol officer of a ticket displayed has been taken at an angle from which this information is obscured.

When placed in the same position on the dashboard the required information is clearly visible from an elevated perspective

i.e. normal head height (see photographs in Document 2) which show the two perspectives.

 

The Reconstruction of photographs were witnessed (see EMAIL Witness Statements 1)

 

2) Incorrect times.

There are serious inconsistencies with the Parking Charge Ticket issued and the photographs sent by Armtrac and included in Document

1. The Parking Charge Ticket was issued at 13.09 (see Document 3).

 

At this time I had only just arrived in the car park and was queuing at the machine to obtain my parking ticket (which was issued at 13.12).

 

The person in front of me* was having some problems operating the machine and it probably took about five minutes or more to get my ticket and return to the car.

 

It appears that the time settings on the camera used by the operative were incorrect (14.10 - 14.11)

– one photograph even shows the passenger door window wide open which is not something that I would do when leaving the car unattended (as I then did) to visit the restaurant and later walk on the beach.

 

*- Lesley B who kindly gave me her ticket when leaving the car park as evidence.

 

I arrived in the car park at the same time as she did and she has agreed to act as a witness (see EMAIL Witness Statements 2)

 

 

Any thoughts gratefully received!

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Hi and welcome to CAG.

 

What on earth are you worrying about? It is highly unlikely they will go to court as they will have to justify their 'fine' I assume this is a private car park and not a council ticket as you went to POPLA. They are run by the same people who issue the tickets and pretending they are impartial.

 

No matter what POPLA say, you can just ignore them and only respond IF they actually issue court papers.

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

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if successful II would seek to claim on this basis (and donatelink3.gif to a pet/animal charity).

 

What, no donation to the Consumer Action Group ?

 

Read up what has been published in the press and on here about breach of contract. That will wipe out all and any payment above their actual losses.

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You paid for a ticket to park there and if they were unable to read it that is there tough luck.

Hopefully you still have the ticket.

 

Either way they will look a bit foolish going to court as by saying "failure to display" does not mean you did not buy a ticket.

 

Don't lose any sleep over this one and continue to ignore unless they want a hiding and send court papers which is unlikely.

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This has little or no chance of ever going to court ,

if any loss occurred it could only be the cost of the hourly charge rate plus the cost of issuing the invoice.

 

These companies frequently argue that their charges are based on the upper limit of £100 .00 as stated by the British Parking Association.

 

However, who are the BPA to set charges, they are nothing more than a representative body of the Private Parking Industry.

 

Furthermore, they HAVE NEVER provided detail of how this figure was calculated or why they deem it to be a genuine pre estimate of loss.

 

What the Department of Transport states is as follows.

.

Department for Transport .

 

Charges for breaking a parking contract must be reasonable and a genuine pre-estimate of loss.

This means charges must compensate the landholder only for the loss they are likely to suffer because the parking contract has been broken.

 

For example, to cover the unpaid charges and the administrative costs associated with issuing the ticket to recover the charges.

Charges may not be set at higher levels than necessary to recover business losses and the intention should not be to penalise the driver.

 

The OFT statement on this point.

.

Charges for breaking a parking contract must be reasonable and a genuine pre-estimate of loss.

This means charges must compensate the landholder only for the loss they are likely to suffer because the parking contract has been broken.

 

For example, to cover the unpaid charges and the administrative costs associated with issuing the ticket to recover the charges.

Charges may not be set at higher levels than necessary to recover business losses and the intention should not be to penalise the driver.

 

RELAX

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and its NOT A FINE!!

 

nowhere do they use that word

 

if they do, they are in trouble

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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You paid for a ticket for the time you were in the car park, so there is no loss to the car park owner.

In my opinion they will not be going anywhere near court.

If you have not sent your POPLA appeal yet then have a read around this and other forums to get an idea of what to put in the appeal.

Its not a FINE so do not worry!

hello all:-)

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Thanks for all the responses and info.

 

I have just received a letter from Armtrac following the appeal - the last paragraph reads.

 

"We therefore request the balance of £100 to be paid by 23rd July 2013 or collection will be passsed to Debt Recovery Plus or the County Courts for collection."

 

Anyone know who/what "Debt Recovery Plus" is ? It sounds intimidating.

 

Cheers!

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Sorry forgot to add to previous post above - can "Debt Recovery Plus" act in any way at all with me to get the £100 BEFORE a court hearing?

 

Dave

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nope they are not bailiffs

just powerless DCA.

 

there are sev threads here already on this DRP dca stuff

who was the parking charge from?

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Sorry forgot to add to previous post above - can "Debt Recovery Plus" act in any way at all with me to get the £100 BEFORE a court hearing?

Dave

 

 

Hello Simit...

Im sorry these hyenas of society are hounding you for money that you are not liable for.

Croc doc provides sound advice on here...

.Only if you go to court and lose and refuse to pay a judgement,

can the claimant apply for a warrant of execution for a COURT Baliff to recover the sum owed..

 

..All a debt collectors can do is try to telephone you 3 or 4 times a day asking for your long card number

or send you threatening looking letters containing useless information..

 

..You could refuse to correspond with them, or speak to them on the phone about your all time favourite 100 records as they are paying for the call...

....I doubt very much this will ever see court,

 

I dont suspect either that they have a close up photograph of the dshboard !!

 

Keep us all informed,

and keep your ticket and a record of all your costs defending this matter just incase,

eg postage, stationary, travel, any telephone calls and loss of earnings (Max £90 daily)

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You paid to park (I hope you still have the ticket that proves this).

There was no injury and they suffered no loss.

This this is clearly obnoxious as a penalty.

 

I would tackle this from two angles,

the same two aspects of any valid claim namely violation of a legal right and injury.

 

Firstly what evidence is their of the legal right that has been violated

(and is that legal right theirs or someone else's)

and what is the measure and quantum of damage (the injury).

 

I am surprised that this was not won at POPLA.

 

It would be informative to see the arguments used by both sides at POPLA and the text the decision.

 

Of course you should redact personal information from the text.

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If you were arguing that you had paid then naturally it would be best to able to evidence it !

 

As it is civil a 'huge pile' of paid tickets may help if you did not have the one in question.

The bench may accept that as "51%".

But in Small Claims who knows ?

 

Better to have the ticket

- or bank statement if paid by card/phone.

 

keep (cash) parking tickets for a long time for this reason. The ticket is not the be all and end all. Violation of a legal right and damages. Even if you cannot prove the parking was paid for is the amount being asked for appropriate to the purported injury ?

 

Is it the PPC's legal right or the landowner's ?

 

Who is the purported "innocent party".

 

Is the PPC mere agent ? etc. etc.

Edited by lamma
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Much appreciate all the advice guys - I have the ticket that I bought and other evidence cited in my first posting. These people are very intimidating and threatening - without your help and support I could have just buckled and paid - I can see the whole thing more clearly now. Ill post any further developments.

 

Big thanks!

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Hi there, the fact you have your ticket proves that the land owner ( not the ppc) suffered no loss of revenue.

Amazed POPLA refused your appeal.

The small claims court consists of one Deputy District Judge and is very informal as the intent is to resolve disputes between two parties.

 

The onus is on the Claimant to prove their case, not the other way around this includes a close up photo of the dashboard,

assuming it is the actual land owner that brings proceedings against you,

not the PPC in which case the PPC has no right to do so in their name unless they have a contract which states they can which you are entitled to see and I very much doubt they have one.

 

If you think this advice has been helpful please give me positive feedback.

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  • 4 years later...

Need advice

 

back in June 2017 apparently parking charge notice was sent to my old address and received via re-direction around late July 2017.

 

I called Parking Eye and advised this tickets wasn't for us as we were both at work

plus don't know where this hotel is and if I did we wouldn't go there for any reason plus we don't go to the area in question.

Correspondence went back and forth to Parking Eye as we aren't going to pay for something that we didn't do.

 

Its on Private Land apparently as I called the Hotel and the Manager stated he has trouble with Parking Eye with his own clients staying there and he provided the landlord whom reside in the USA and another country which I forget.

 

I did email the landlord but not reply

asked if Parking Eye were their designated collector of monies and issuing tickets.

 

Also quoted to Parking Eye and POPLA a piece found on internet that although husband registered keeper at the time we owned the car he or myself was not the driver so we cannot be liable and we don't know who apparently was the driver as we are the only two insured on the car.

 

They sent photo evidence and you couldn't see who was in the parked vehicle but defo wasn't either of us.

 

I have appealed to POPLA who clearly didn't read the appeal properly.

I did state we sold car in July as we believe again our number plates been cloned again.

 

Who can we appeal to higher than POPLA as we are not going to pay these cowboys and advised them we can prove both at work at the time.

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can you create your own thread please. Youve replied to one thats been dead for 4 years

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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Start a new thread

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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no-one you ignore them.

 

unless you get a letter of claim

or

a claimform

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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also,

they will have sent you pictures of the car taken via their ANPR system.

 

Does this even look like your car?

 

Should they continue with this then they will have to prove it is your vehicle and since you will be able to prove you weren't there at the time and nor was the car then they will lose.

 

Your post is not the easiest to understand and that wont have helped you at POPLA but no damage done either.

 

Before you do write to anyone else please post up what you want to say so people can advise on what phrases to use, laws and protocols followed etc.

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