FALSE Court Fine - HELP PLEASE!

[Beaker23]

Hi everyone, Im new to CAG but been reading the site all afternoon and theres some great advice here….I hope you can help me too!

 

I've been in written correspondence with the CENS Enforcement Unit for the past 2 months, regarding an unpaid TV license relating to an address in Ipswich. I must point out I have never been to Ipswich, and was living out of the UK continuously for 2 years during the time of said TV License fine.

Initially I called Norwich Magistrates and explained my case, to which the reply was in my favour accepting my innocence; "you have a common name, these things can happen. The easiest thing to do is make a Statutory Declaration in court and it will all go away".

I am a cooperative person but do not feel I should have to swear on oath and take the time from work to attend court for something that can be solved in an easier manner. Hence I replied by mail, providing copies of my passport and letter of explanation.

Even though the CENS accept my "documentation stating you were in ***country at the time of offence", they still insist I make a Stat Dec. Is there anyway I can avoid making a Stat Dec? Are the CENS within their rite to keep harassing me? Or does anyone have any useful links and I'll carry on researching for myself

 

In final addition:

- the very first correspondence was a Further Steps Notice in May 2013, however the license relates to summer 2011

- I have never seen a copy of the initial fine or late payment notice, and despite returning the first letter stating "refused for cause / no invoice" the CENS still haven't provided me with the original invoice

- I have been informed there was a court date set in Nov 2011 that was missed, however my first knowledge of this offence was in May 2013

- I have received several Further steps notices now, all to my corresponding address. I do not live at this address and so have a further responsibility to the owners of the house that bailiffs will not turn up on their door. I have made the CENS aware that this is my corresponding address only.

 

Thanks in advance people!

[BazzaS]

Hi everyone, Im new to CAG but been reading the site all afternoon and theres some great advice here….I hope you can help me too!

 

I've been in written correspondence with the CENS Enforcement Unit for the past 2 months, regarding an unpaid TV license relating to an address in Ipswich. I must point out I have never been to Ipswich, and was living out of the UK continuously for 2 years during the time of said TV License fine.

Initially I called Norwich Magistrates and explained my case, to which the reply was in my favour accepting my innocence; "you have a common name, these things can happen. The easiest thing to do is make a Statutory Declaration in court and it will all go away".

I am a cooperative person but do not feel I should have to swear on oath and take the time from work to attend court for something that can be solved in an easier manner. Hence I replied by mail, providing copies of my passport and letter of explanation.

Even though the CENS accept my "documentation stating you were in ***country at the time of offence", they still insist I make a Stat Dec. Is there anyway I can avoid making a Stat Dec? Are the CENS within their rite to keep harassing me? Or does anyone have any useful links and I'll carry on researching for myself

 

In final addition:

- the very first correspondence was a Further Steps Notice in May 2013, however the license relates to summer 2011

- I have never seen a copy of the initial fine or late payment notice, and despite returning the first letter stating "refused for cause / no invoice" the CENS still haven't provided me with the original invoice

- I have been informed there was a court date set in Nov 2011 that was missed, however my first knowledge of this offence was in May 2013

- I have received several Further steps notices now, all to my corresponding address. I do not live at this address and so have a further responsibility to the owners of the house that bailiffs will not turn up on their door. I have made the CENS aware that this is my corresponding address only.

 

Thanks in advance people!

 

You've had appropriate advice:

"The easiest thing to do is make a Statutory Declaration in court and it will all go away".

 

However, you feel that you don't want to take that good advice:

" I am a cooperative person but do not feel I should have to swear on oath and take the time from work to attend court for something that can be solved in an easier manner"

 

The court insists on a Statuatory Declaration so that the person making that declaration understand it is an oath to the court, and lying attracts severe penalties.

It is also a formal part of the court's processes, rather than you expecting the court to fit around your expectations and what you feel will be easier.

 

You have the choice : follow the good advice you have had or not.

If you don't : there is a chance the court might not look favourably on you. What if the court says "you were advised to make a Statuatory declaration & didn't do so in a reasonable timescale. We are upholding the finding of guilt and the penalty issued"? all because you decided to apply YOUR rules rather than the court's rules.

 

I note that you were aware of this in May 2013 : time may be running out, or could have already.

Why ignore good advice they offered you?

[Beaker23]

What if the court says "you were advised to make a Statuatory declaration & didn't do so in a reasonable timescale. We are upholding the finding of guilt and the penalty issued"?

 

I'd agree if the offence related to me. I don't see how the court could uphold the offence when it is proven beyond reasonably doubt that I was not in the country during the time of the offence or the missed court date.

 

I appreciate your prompt reply, but you miss my point. If every case of mistaken identity had to be treated in the same manner then the courts would be fully booked. I've provided adequate evidence this was not me so am confused as to why I still need to prove my innocence? Thanks again though

[havinastella]

Why would you want sight of the original Court docs when you have stated they have nothing to do with you?

[Beaker23]

Why would you want sight of the original Court docs when you have stated they have nothing to do with you?

 

The very first correspondence received from the CENS was a Further steps notice demanding a sum of money, with no explanation as to what it wad for. Would you not want to know what you were being fined for?

[fkofilee]

I would agree with Beaker23, However at the same time, you need to get to the court to get this sorted.

Honestly doing a Statutory Declaration in court is best.... I would get a move on if i was you

[lamma]

This has everything to do with you as you are in the frame. You have proven nothing - yet. You do that in court if needed. Make the declaration with all due haste. You must unwind what has happened or you will remain liable. There is a time limitation that you may have to overcome, see http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1980/43/section/14

[sgtbush]

you have been given the correct advice by the court, you must do a stat dec, if you do not then eventually it will go to warrants and eventually to arrest warrants,

i cannot see any reason why you would not fill out a simple peice of paper that takes about 10 mins to do and have it signed by a JP?

if you dont follow the advice, thats your choice but dont expect the courts to accept anything less than what is required by law to have the case dismissed

[wonkeydonkey]

Why would anyone who has a painless solution to a problem at their finger tips not want to take advantage of it??

Just do the stat dec and you get to move on with your life.

[lamma]

Indeed. The fine is not false at all, it is real and exists. It being inapplicable/in error does not make it untrue (false). I am concerned over date (deadline) issues.

[Beaker23]

Thank you for your advice, I guess it's unanimous for doing a stat dec. I'll let you know how the proceedings go. All the best

[BazzaS]

I'd agree if the offence related to me. I don't see how the court could uphold the offence when it is proven beyond reasonably doubt that I was not in the country during the time of the offence or the missed court date.

 

I appreciate your prompt reply, but you miss my point. If every case of mistaken identity had to be treated in the same manner then the courts would be fully booked. I've provided adequate evidence this was not me so am confused as to why I still need to prove my innocence? Thanks again though

 

I see you have "seen sense" further down the thread.

 

You don't need to prove your innocence, and the court likely isn't doubting your word : however it has its own processes to follow before that word can be considered at law.

 

However, you seem to feel that the court should 'just accept a letter (or phone call') from you.

If you feel so strongly, you should campaign to have the law changed.

Until the law is changed the court is bound by its processes : to consider and accept your statement it needs to be in the form of a Statuatory declaration.

[Beaker23]

I see you have "seen sense" further down the thread.

 

You don't need to prove your innocence, and the court likely isn't doubting your word : however it has its own processes to follow before that word can be considered at law.

 

However, you seem to feel that the court should 'just accept a letter (or phone call') from you.

If you feel so strongly, you should campaign to have the law changed.

Until the law is changed the court is bound by its processes : to consider and accept your statement it needs to be in the form of a Statutory declaration.

 

I comprehend that the court has its own processors, however I have a written offer from the CENS that I could EITHER provide evidence to them direct proving I was not in the country OR make a stat dec. Yet after receiving my documents it seems they still want me to make a stat dec. After a conversation this morning with the CENS I have been informed the reason for this is that it would be too costly for the issuing company to re-open the case and start looking for the real culprit, and that a stat dec would simply wipe the fine. So in saving them money it is costing me money. I do not earn a great deal, and so even though it may not seem much to some, taking a morning or day off work, including travel costs, is considerable to me. If I understood the law well enough I would campaign, but in starting this thread it must have been obvious to you I was looking for your advice. So thank you again for making me "see sense"

[BazzaS]

I comprehend that the court has its own processors, however I have a written offer from the CENS that I could EITHER provide evidence to them direct proving I was not in the country OR make a stat dec. Yet after receiving my documents it seems they still want me to make a stat dec. After a conversation this morning with the CENS I have been informed the reason for this is that it would be too costly for the issuing company to re-open the case and start looking for the real culprit, and that a stat dec would simply wipe the fine. So in saving them money it is costing me money. I do not earn a great deal, and so even though it may not seem much to some, taking a morning or day off work, including travel costs, is considerable to me. If I understood the law well enough I would campaign, but in starting this thread it must have been obvious to you I was looking for your advice. So thank you again for making me "see sense"

 

A Statuatory declaration won't "simply wipe the fine".

 

If it "just wiped the fine" it would still leave you with a conviction recorded against you.

 

The stat dec will allow the court to vacate the conviction and its associated fine, not deal with the fine alone.

 

Have sought where your nearest solicitor who can act as a commissioner for oaths, to decrease your time off work and reduce your travel costs?

[Beaker23]

A Statuatory declaration won't "simply wipe the fine".

 

If it "just wiped the fine" it would still leave you with a conviction recorded against you.

 

The stat dec will allow the court to vacate the conviction and its associated fine, not deal with the fine alone.

 

Have sought where your nearest solicitor who can act as a commissioner for oaths, to decrease your time off work and reduce your travel costs?

 

The quote "wipe the fine" actually came direct from the member of staff at CENS I spoke to this morning. I have little other knowledge of how the procedure works other than what I am being told and finding out here.

 

And no, I was under the impression I had to attend court to make a stat dec? This is great information if I can get it done by a local solicitor. Im genuinely thankful BazzaS

[renegadeimp]

To make a stat dec, you can go to court and get it done for free, or you can go to any solicitor and get it done, but they will charge you a fee. You then take or send it to the court.

[sgtbush]

it may wipe the fine as far as your concerned but in reality it will be just dis-assosiated from you, they will put the case back into trace

[havinastella]

The very first correspondence received from the CENS was a Further steps notice demanding a sum of money, with no explanation as to what it wad for. Would you not want to know what you were being fined for?

 

NO, not if I wasn't the person that was being fined!

[brassnecked]

If you don't do the Stat Dec, they will associate the criminal element to your record, and it will show on any enhanced CRB