Observations please on how I hope to deal with a number of debts.

[Hannay100]

I have a number of debts as detailed below that I have been making reduced payments against, for a little while in some cases. My age and circumstances now make it unrealistic to expect to continue doing so, and actually clearing the debts impossible.

 

I am about to contact all and advise accordingly requesting that the balances be written off. If they aren’t I will reduce payments to a token £1 per month.

 

At intervals I have been asked to increase payments, and I have responded that I am unable to do so and have volunteered an Income & Expenditure statement to bear this out.

 

I have occasionally been offered a reduced lump-sum settlement opportunity including writing down the £24K mortgage debt to just £1,200 however, so I hope they will see the reality of things which is that at current payment levels the c£4K debts would each take over 60 years to clear, the c£25K debts well past 400 years, and I will clear the CCJ in 2085 aged 135!

 

I'm not sure at the moment what approach to take with the CCJ, or even if that is possible and the debt will actually pass to my family/estate on my death … still looking in to that.

 

Details, if it helps …

 

My debts date generally from early-mid ‘00s and span a business collapse (Sole Trader) from which I never really recovered despite a short-lived further attempt. There is also a CCJ. This all had a devastating effect, including eventually the repossession of our home just a few years ago since when we have rented our way in to retirement. We have no assets and just state pension income.

 

All debts are with DCAs except for one which is with the original debt-holder Cheltenham & Gloucester/Lloyds TSB. These are:

 

1. Intrum Justitia from Nat West, Business Loan, Bal now £3,931, paying £5/mth since ‘03
   
2. Link from ?? (need to check), Bal now £3,702, paying £5/mth since ‘04
   
3. Fredrickson from HSBC, Cedit Card, Bal now £3,862, paying £5/mth since ‘07
   
4. Moorcroft from Nat West, Personal loan, Bal now £3,118, paying £5/mth since ‘04
   
5. Direct Legal and Collections Shortfall on repo sale of home by mortgage lender, Bal now £25,852, paying £5/mth since ‘10
   
6. Chelt & Gloucs/Lloyds, direct. Shortfall on repo sale of 2nd property mortgaged to release working capital, Bal now £24,000 +/-, paying £5/mth since ‘99
   
7. Also a CCJ in '02 for £50K at £50/mth since then
   

Some have been with other DCAs too so they actually go back further .... for example Phoenix Recoveries, Lowells and Robinson Way at times as some were reassigned, but because of moves and more I just don’t have all correspondence anymore and can’t tie them down now.

 

So ….

 

I think my plan is sound, however before making contact to see what I can achieve I'd welcome any advice/comment ... good idea or not, any best way to go about it, anything further I might do to help myself, anything I could say in order to help, or avoid because it would hinder … that kind of thing. I’d love these to disappear so I can breathe easy now.

 

Thank you for any assistance.

[dx100uk]

1,2,3,4,

 

fire off a CCA request

 

have you ever checked they are legally enforceable?

 

looks like to me you could be being cash cowed here, those named DCA's are the worst.

 

adapt the following text to YOUR details.

DO NOT SIGN THE LETTER!

get a £1 BLANK Postal order

write on the back

for statutory £1 CCA FEE ONLY.

leave the payee BLANK

post the two off by 1st class post, get proof of posting from PO counter

they have 12+2 WORKING days to comply.

 

firm demanding money

 

street,

 

town,

 

county

 

postcode

 

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

 

 

Re:- Account/Reference Number 12345678

 

I do not acknowledge any debt with your Company or Associates

 

This letter is a formal request pursuant to s.77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I require you to provide me with a true copy of the credit agreement relating to the above account, together with any other documentation the Act requires you to provide, including a detailed statement of the account.

 

 

 

I expect you to comply fully and properly with this request, within the statutory time limit. You are reminded that should you fail to comply with my request, the provisions of s.77 will apply.

 

 

 

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties.

 

 

 

Your attention is drawn to ss.5(2), 3(b),6 and 7 of the Consumer Protection From Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPUTR).

 

 

 

I enclose a postal order in the sum of £1.00, which is the statutory fee. Note that these funds are not to be used for any other purpose.

 

 

 

If you are unable to comply fully and properly with this request, you should confirm this in writing at the earliest opportunity, and certainly within the statutory time limit for compliance, and return the fee.

 

 

 

We look forward to hearing from you.

 

 

 

Yours faithfully

 

Mr A N Other

[citizenB]

1. Direct Legal and Collections Shortfall on repo sale of home by mortgage lender, Bal now £25,852, paying £5/mth since ‘10
   
2. Chelt & Gloucs/Lloyds, direct. Shortfall on repo sale of 2nd property mortgaged to release working capital, Bal now £24,000 +/-, paying £5/mth since ‘99
   

 

 

I will ask for more direction on these two for you as they are shortfall debts I think there is a different way of dealing with them.

 

As for the others. You can establish if there are any charges on them that could reduce any liability.

 

If there are no assets then I think it is likely you will be spared the stat demands and claims because it simply wont be in their interest.

 

In the event that the debts outlive you, your family will not be responsible for them unless you leave an estate.

 

What is the County Court Judgment for ?

[Hannay100]

dx - thank you, I will have those CCA letters off in the post this afternoon.

 

I think you have just opened my eyes VERY very widely with your “cash cow” comments here and on my Ruthbridge thread – thank you for the education!

 

To answer your question, no I have never checked they are legally enforceable. To my mind I had genuine card and loan default-debts, and dealt with the debt-holders at first and then with Assignees when informed of the change. All very clear and simple to me then and since, but I think from your words that that just makes me very innocent and naiieve.

 

All I can say is that I thought I was doing the right things dealing properly with pretty clear debt obligations.

 

I have read-up on here a little this morning to try and add some understanding for myself, and I think I am right that if there isn’t a Credit Agreement available today the debt can’t be pursued? Is that correct and the direction you are heading me in?

 

I also see you are requiring them to provide a statement of the account/s … is that because there is a possibility of reclaiming inappropriate payments-made? Or is that me just pushing my luck

 

Just trying to understand this new world I find myself in these days!

 

Again thanks for switching the light on, and I’ll post back when replies are received and will appreciate pointers on how to deal with what they bring.

[fletch70]

A statement of account with regards to a CCA request is purely the amount owed at this point. If they get it wrong and say you owe say 1K when it should be 5K they are kinda stuffed as the 1K is all they can claim

There may be oportunities of reclaiming PPI but that is a different issue

[dx100uk]

dx - thank you, I will have those CCA letters off in the post this afternoon.

 

I think you have just opened my eyes VERY very widely with your “cash cow” comments here and on my Ruthbridge thread – thank you for the education!

 

To answer your question, no I have never checked they are legally enforceable. To my mind I had genuine card and loan default-debts, and dealt with the debt-holders at first and then with Assignees when informed of the change. All very clear and simple to me then and since, but I think from your words that that just makes me very innocent and naiieve.

 

All I can say is that I thought I was doing the right things dealing properly with pretty clear debt obligations.

 

I have read-up on here a little this morning to try and add some understanding for myself, and I think I am right that if there isn’t a Credit Agreement available today the debt can’t be pursued? Is that correct and the direction you are heading me in?

 

I also see you are requiring them to provide a statement of the account/s … is that because there is a possibility of reclaiming inappropriate payments-made? Or is that me just pushing my luck

 

Just trying to understand this new world I find myself in these days!

 

Again thanks for switching the light on, and I’ll post back when replies are received and will appreciate pointers on how to deal with what they bring.

 

I don't ever like to point out the cash cow option

 

but sadly and innocently I think you have been done over

 

esp by link

 

the other three are just as bad

 

this is where your money goes:

 

http://www.homesandproperty.co.uk/property_news/news/millionairedebtcollectordigsdeepinsouthkensington.html

 

..............

 

it might be worth your while to SAR the original creditors

there could well be PENALTY charges [if within 6yrs]

 

or various incarnations of PPI [that have no time limit to get back]

 

poss be best start a new thread on each 'debt' as the paperwork comes [or doesnt!] in

 

dx

[filrobbo]

Yes keep us informed, I bet you av got loads

of charges to claim back.DCA are fraudsters don't trust them.

[mccgirls]

I don't ever like to point out the cash cow option

 

but sadly and innocently I think you have been done over

 

esp by link

 

the other three are just as bad

 

this is where your money goes:

 

Im even more angry after reading this!! I got PP to call Link yesterday to offer a settlement and they reckon I owe around £800 more on one debt !!

Like I said in my post I have been a cash cow to but now my fear has turned to anger so no more!! Good Luck Hannay!

[Hannay100]

mccgirls - I can understand you being angered by that ... a feeling I rather share. Thank you for your good wishes, mine to you also with your own dealings.

 

filrobbo - I certainly will be posting back here as things move along so you will be able to follow progress if of interest. As to reclaims etc, this morning my head is still spinning over my whole new understanding. All I was initially focused upon was managing my affairs for comfort and having each debt either written off or reducing it to a £1 minimum for life myself which needs just a few simple steps to get to a result. But now I am suddenly a potential long-term victim of shady behaviour by a number of highly questionable outfits, with campaigns to mount! Watch this space.

 

fletch70 - thanks for the clarification. A couple of the DCAs send a statement every 6 months under cover of an "as required by law we are sending ....." letter. In fact Link is one of those, and the latest was actually just a few days ago. Shouldn't be a problem establishing balances from them all I would think.

 

dx ... all noted, and the more I learn the more I understand why all of those giving advice here have such impressive commitment and very strong feelings!

 

The scale of things is undoubtedly much greater still, and your collective awareness of all that goes on under the covers as well as above them must be very angry-making! I can't say how valuable your interest and input is to people like me who don't have even 1% of that awareness, and get funneled into unjust and avoidable situations without ever really knowing!

 

Okay so ...

 

DCA/CCA letters went off yesterday, I will post on each in a separate thread as anything arises.

[dx100uk]

great

12+2 days

 

once that's passed

with no SIGNED CCA coming back

 

stop payments

send the failure to comply letters.

 

it might be wise to dump PP

 

they will not be interested in any 'legality' issues

 

dx

[Hannay100]

dx - all noted re the follow-through thanks, will do!

 

I'm picking up on a few acronyms in use here as time goes by, but most still are unfamiliar to me just yet so I don't know what your "PP" reference is aiming me at ...

 

I poked around first to see if I could figure it out, did a site search too but unsurprisingly that seems to throw up mostly "PPI" threads.

 

All I can wonder is whether you are referring to Payplan? If you are, then I'm not with them, not with anybody, just me .... and CAG

[dx100uk]

ah ok though you were with PP yes.

 

always check those after money are legally entitled to it!

 

dx

[Hannay100]

always check those after money are legally entitled to it!

 

The dx family motto I presume, emblazoned across the coat of arms over untold generations ....

[caro]

Hi hannay.

 

Another option that you might like to consider which would deal with all your debts in one go is bankruptcy. Apart from the fee I can't see that you have anything to lose, and those who may have been cash cowing you would get exactly what they deserve!!

[sequenci]

Hello there, just to echo Caro's post here's a useful fact sheet outlining the bankruptcy process in a bit more detail. As you have a significt amount of debt and no realistic prospect of paying it back it could be worth considering. The process is relatively simple and it's very fast, too. It's often a very quick mechanism to allow a fresh start to be made and also to get these creditors off your back once and for all:

 

http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/england_wales/factsheet.php?page=01_bankruptcy

[Hannay100]

Hello caro and sequenci, and thank you for a perfectly reasonable thought.

 

I have in fact given bankruptcy more than strong consideration anyway, as in a certain light there are some things that appeal even despite being strongly recommended by a CAB-introduced debt adviser to ... what was the technical term used .. ah yes I remember .. "avoid like the plague!"

 

Nevertheless, bankruptcy is actually my fallback anyway if I don't get enough of a result following current paths.

 

I would however MUCH prefer to sidestep that option for one or two rather major reasons including for example the fact that we will be opening the door to being evicted from our rented house under the terms of our lease. Certainly that's maybe open for discussion or appeals or whatever, and yes there's always the ultimate option of a 1-bed flat with the Local Authority, but whether or not there's any kind of wiggle-room I just don't want to waken the sleeping beast in the first place.

 

Plus, that very practical issue also has a very tender emotional content because my wife is far from a strong woman as a result of all that has happened these past few years. This has included the repossession of our house and putting three-quarters of our belongings in to storage because of the huge downsize that we had to accept as an elderly couple without assets or external income. We have already had to let go of things that we expected to have around us in retirement, which alone is sometimes a cause of upset but at the same time is understood as perfectly sensible as well as necessary now.

 

But I therefore really have no interest in opening a door on to uncertainties over such a basic matter as our living arrangements. Regardless of outcome the simple fact of going through "stuff" will be very traumatic and leave new emotional wounds when the others are still less than completely healed. If we were in our 20s and dodging overpowering student loans and racked-up credit card balances etc then there'd be no problem about going bankrupt, moving away, making a new start, etc ... but with 70 in the middle-distance and 80 somewhere about to creep on to the far horizon there are different values, different considerations.

 

So, bankruptcy certainly has a place, but just now the short/clean process still isn't worth the price paid in other ways, which aren't limited to just the matter of a home as mentioned above, but other things too.

 

So the possibility of maybe losing some improper debts and getting any legitimate ones either written-off or simply down to £1 per month has some appeal, and I don't mind giving time just now to seeing if something might play out in that regard.

 

Again, thanks for the reinforcement of my backup all the same ... and who knows, it could come to that anyway.

[sequenci]

No worries! If you're up-to-date with rent it's very unusual for a landlord to get uppity about bankruptcy - the clause is usually there in case a tenants rent arrears disappears when an bankruptcy order is made - thus giving the landlord a quick way to get shot of the tenant. A few landlords might get concerned still - and that's usually because they think that a tenants bankruptcy could affect them or the property in someway - it usually doesn't.

 

Glad to see that you're aware of all options, though, I wish you well in your journey

 

Seq.

[caro]

I can quite see your point hannay. If you do have to reconsider bankruptcy and your rent is uptodate I would check first if they would make you leave.

 

Good luck with everything.

[filrobbo]

If you don't pay your debts or cart afford any of the company's can applyfor bankruptcy so stop paying and let them make you bankrupt for free

[caro]

If you don't pay your debts or cart afford any of the company's can applyfor bankruptcy so stop paying and let them make you bankrupt for free

 

Which they probably won't because it will cost them.

[fletch70]

I have been waiting over a year for someone to make me BR. I have even gone so far as writing letters saying put up and make me BR. or bugger off.

[sequenci]

Which they probably won't because it will cost them.

 

Unless they'll get a return they won't bother. The ONLY time I've seen people being made bankrupt purely as a punitive measure is when HMRC have done it to people.

[Wintry]

Hi

 

Creditors don't usually go all the way for bankruptcy unless there are assets such as the home

 

Local Authorities for council tax debts is not that uncommon, personal & busimess debts, certain brewery & pub chains, HMRC and others will and do go for the bankruptcy route.

[fletch70]

What do you mean as a punitive measure?

 

Do you mean even when they know there are no assets?

[citizenB]

What do you mean as a punitive measure?

 

Do you mean even when they know there are no assets?

 

Yes..

 

pu·ni·tive

Adjective

1. Inflicting or intended as punishment.

2. (Of a tax or other charge) extremely high.

Synonyms

Penal - retributive