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Insurers have determined 50/50 liability when other driver was clearly at fault


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Hi All

 

My partner was involved in a road traffic accident in March 2013. It seems an obvious case where the other driver was at fault, yet the insurers have just decided that liability cannot be proved so have recommended a 50/50 settlement.

 

These photos that show the approach to the junction where the accident happened:

http://s511.photobucket.com/user/rk1974/library/Road%20Photographs

pictures 1-3 show my partner's approach to the junction (heading north), picture 4 shows the other driver's approach (heading south).

 

Here's what happended:

My partner was driving on the road shown above, on the right hand (inside) lane, driving northbound. She noticed the light was green so proceeded throught the junction. In a split second she noticed another car pulling in front of her, but it was too late, the next thing she remembers is her head hitting the air bag.

 

The other driver was coming from the other direction (southbound) and had made a right turn attempting to cut across two lanes of oncoming traffic. She hit the right-side of my partner's car at the front, the other driver suffered damage to the front of her car. The cars rested on the road and blocked the northbound traffic (in photos 1-3, on the left side of the road).

 

Given the damage caused to both vehicles, where they ended up on the road and the laws of motion, this situation could only have been caused by the other driver driving into my partner's car. Now I thought in these cases the standard response was to find the other driver at fault since she caused the accident by driving into a flow of oncoming traffic?

 

The police were called to the scene and the drivers were helped from their cars.

 

My partner remembers a bus was in the left lane travelling in the same direction as she was when the accident happened. She was told by the police the bus driver reported the accident. My partner also remembers an off duty police officer arrived at the scene immediately and checked her condition.

 

The police later contacted my partner to say the other driver was given a formal warning about her driving.

 

The other driver claimed she was not liable and claimed she was stationary when the accident happened. We thought this was laughable and simply a standard case of not admitting liability until all the facts were evident. If you look at photo 4:

http://s511.photobucket.com/user/rk1974/media/Road%20Photographs/road4_reverse_zpsb820d3a9.png.html?sort=4&o=3

the other driver could not have been stationary. To be in a safe position she would have to be in the right lane on her side of the road waiting for the filter light to turn green. Even if she had pulled out ready to turn you can see that there is plenty of space just left of the box junction for her to have been in a safe position that does not obstruct the oncoming traffic. Given the positions the cars rested in, if she was actually stationary her car would have to be positioned sideways (she would have had to been static in the box junction with cars oncoming!) and my partner would have had to swerved left then back to the right to cause the damage to the cars!

 

The insurance companies have determined as the police warned rather than prosecuted the other driver liability is not certain. My partner was asked by the police what course of action she recommended. As she thought the other driver would suffer enough financially if she was found liable, she recommended a warning. If my partner recommended a prosecution would this have influenced the police's decision?

 

The insurance company are also claiming there were no witnesses. This is something we will investigate further by contacting the police for copies of statements and Transport for London for the bus driver's testimony. CCTV cameras were also not in use at the time of the accident.

 

Can we also request a detailed breakdown of the other driver's counter-claim as what we have been told so far seems frivolous? And a full breakdown of how the insurers reached their decision (Data Protection Act - Subject Access Request)?

 

My partner's insurance company wrote to her to say that liability cannot be determined. It could be in court, but they recommend against that. So they've decided it's a 50/50.

 

Thanks if you've taken the time to read all of this, any help in this matter would be greatly appreciated.

 

Cheers, P.

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Of course they will find 50/50. It makes for a much easier life and of course it means that they can increase the insurance premiums for both parties next year - so that everyone is a winner .... except you, of course - but who cares about you.

 

Probably the only way to deal with it is to bring a court claim against the other party. If you win then the insurer will have no choice in the mater.

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In these types of scenarios, always ask the police to take a formal statement from you as you wish to press charges. I'm afraid there is no room for sentiment as it just puts you out of pocket.

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

 

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No the insurance company did not bother to obtain copy of the accident report. We're in the process now of getting it from the police. I'm guessing that will also have the witness statements the insurers are claiming don't exist...

 

I'm finding their conduct staggering. They've just sat on this case for 4 months and done nothing. They've also outright lied about there being a lack of evidence.

 

Am I right in thinking that if this went to court it would be a civil case and therefore the judgement would be based on the balance of probabilities, rather than beyond all reasonable doubt? So the court would find in our favour if we have a police report, witness statements and given my partner was going through a green light on a straight road and was hit by a car doing a right turn?

 

I'm thinking the best thing to do might be to go with a no-win-no-fee accident claim lawyer?

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So the court would find in our favour if we have a police report, witness statements and given my partner was going through a green light on a straight road and was hit by a car doing a right turn?

 

 

Well the fact the light was on green is your case. I suspect the other side eill say different so it won't be as easy as you think.

 

A solicior will only take on your claim if you were injured. Were you?

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Cheers Ganymede - we've requested the police report so I think that will shed a lot of light on determining liability. The accident was reported by a bus driver in parallel lane to my partner and from what she said I'm sure there will be other witnesses too.

 

In terms of injuries, my partner suffered superficial physical damages - bruising, headache, temporary neck ache, cut lip - and was examined by her doctor as a precaution just after the accident. Photographs were taken. It forced her to miss 3 days of work.

 

Her depression was worsened since the incident, with all the stress dealing of dealing with events, and her medication has been increased - as this was a pre-existing condition I don't know if she can make a claim for this?

 

I thought with all the phone calls, letters and hassle the insurers are giving her, a solicitor might be best to deal with getting the full compensation for her, but if it's only injury claims they deal with then so be it.

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Hello,

 

I have been in the same situation as you and ordered the insurance company to take it to the court if the 3rd party did not admit 100% liability - Remember the insurance company must act as you wish. Did you get legal cover with you policy? I believe any form of legal cover in your policy will mean that if you press your insurance to fight the 3rd party then your insurance will supply you with a solicitors firm - email your insurance to find out what you are entitled to if you are unsure before you go looking for your own legal representation.

 

The most imprtant thing first of all if documentaion - make sure everything is by letter or email and avoid phone calls. It may happen that the 3rd party try and bully you or trick you: Do not respond directly to any letter from the 3rd party or their representatives - copy and forward any such correspondance along with a statement from you straight to your insurance company (or/and the legal team they assign you for this claim.)

 

The court will look at the incident from the point of view of law then add a little comon sense - i.e, did you have reasonable time to avoid the collision. How busy was the road - was it rush hour and too unsafe for a full emergency stop due to the traffic behind your car? (some will argue here about it always being safe for an emergency stop but when passing through a junction or roundabout then green lights or prioty over the junction will give other drivers the impression of right of way over very close opposing traffic and not be as prepared to stop as, for example, if the same situation occured in the middle af a highway with a car turning into your path for no reason. The courts will take into account your actions if you assessed that a slight glance from the side by the 3rd party would be safer for all than risking a multi-car shunt from behind) this is where common sense comes in as if the roads were empty than an emergency stop with some swerve might have avoided the collision safely.

 

Take photos of all angles of your car - this is a must before it goes to the garage as you might need to prove if the garage damages any other part of your car but more importantly it proves the direction of travel of both cars, approximate speed of each car and the response of each driver (to a certain degree). If the accident is as you say then the only damage to your car will be to the side and not to the front and visa-vera for the 3rd party.

 

There is CCTV - you said there was a bus in the left lane - ask for the CCTV footage from the bus operator - Someone here should be able to advise you on how to do that formally (I think there is normally a £10 charge when requesting things like this but someone here can advise further)

 

Your photos are ok but only offer a hint of where the accident was - take a few more photos as a pedestrian when the road is empty (and please be careful of traffic) and also go onto google maps to get a few arial shots . Use bold colours on Paint or whatever programme you used (such as green for your car, red for 3rd party and yellow or blue for the bus and other traffic). Use rectangles to show the postitions of the cars instantly prior the collision, at the point of impact and instantly after the collision. Try to get these printed in at least A4 size and in colour as you do not know how far from the judge you will be or how good their eyesight is. The postion of traffic to the left or your car can aid your argument that you had no space to swerve left. Copy these pictures in email to your insurance as further information to your claim (may have to split it accross 2 emails depending on how many megabytes you can email and they can recieve in one go) These pictures will help you a lot if it goes to court as, if the 3rd party is lying, they may have trouble arguing with you if they have not done similar prep. You may also get re-imbursed for the cost of ink and paper + interest at whatever rate was aggreed between the barristers and the court (also you would get any excess you paid refunded with the same insterest if found 100% in your favour).

 

The most important thing is to make sure your insurance company presses the matter and takes it to court for you or allows the 3rd party to take it to court - PUT IT IN WRITING to your insurance company that you KNOW that the 3rd party is 100% liable and YOU WILL GO TO COURT if needs be to prove it. Remember if you do take the matter to court and it does not go 100% in your favour then you need to know what the implications are, hence the question about legal cover.

 

Also remember that your insurance renewal is likely to increase as a result of this even if you are found in the clear - if you are proved in the clear and the renewal price increases then phone up argue with the insurance when you renew that any increase is unfair as you should not be penalised for the 3rd parties actions.

Edited by Darfyddi
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  • 2 weeks later...

Thanks Darfyddi, really helpful information.

 

At the moment my partner's solicitors have requested the police report and we're looking into what possible CCTV footage is available. I'll let you know the outcome.

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Of course they will find 50/50. It makes for a much easier life and of course it means that they can increase the insurance premiums for both parties next year - so that everyone is a winner .... except you, of course - but who cares about you.

 

Probably the only way to deal with it is to bring a court claim against the other party. If you win then the insurer will have no choice in the mater.

 

It's not quite that simple. Insurance is a heavily regulated industry.

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I imagine your insurer has the police accident report but check with them asap.

 

Waiting for police reports can take time (especially in the Met) so this probably accounts for some of the OP's frustration when the insurers seem to be doing nothing.

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No the insurance company did not bother to obtain copy of the accident report. We're in the process now of getting it from the police. I'm guessing that will also have the witness statements the insurers are claiming don't exist...

 

I'm finding their conduct staggering. They've just sat on this case for 4 months and done nothing. They've also outright lied about there being a lack of evidence.

 

Am I right in thinking that if this went to court it would be a civil case and therefore the judgement would be based on the balance of probabilities, rather than beyond all reasonable doubt? So the court would find in our favour if we have a police report, witness statements and given my partner was going through a green light on a straight road and was hit by a car doing a right turn?

 

I'm thinking the best thing to do might be to go with a no-win-no-fee accident claim lawyer?

 

Yes, the burden of proof is set at the lower standard but it would fall on you as the claimant to prove your claim (basically).

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Hello,

 

I have been in the same situation as you and ordered the insurance company to take it to the court if the 3rd party did not admit 100% liability - Remember the insurance company must act as you wish. Did you get legal cover with you policy? I believe any form of legal cover in your policy will mean that if you press your insurance to fight the 3rd party then your insurance will supply you with a solicitors firm - email your insurance to find out what you are entitled to if you are unsure before you go looking for your own legal representation.

 

The most imprtant thing first of all if documentaion - make sure everything is by letter or email and avoid phone calls. It may happen that the 3rd party try and bully you or trick you: Do not respond directly to any letter from the 3rd party or their representatives - copy and forward any such correspondance along with a statement from you straight to your insurance company (or/and the legal team they assign you for this claim.)

 

The court will look at the incident from the point of view of law then add a little comon sense - i.e, did you have reasonable time to avoid the collision. How busy was the road - was it rush hour and too unsafe for a full emergency stop due to the traffic behind your car? (some will argue here about it always being safe for an emergency stop but when passing through a junction or roundabout then green lights or prioty over the junction will give other drivers the impression of right of way over very close opposing traffic and not be as prepared to stop as, for example, if the same situation occured in the middle af a highway with a car turning into your path for no reason. The courts will take into account your actions if you assessed that a slight glance from the side by the 3rd party would be safer for all than risking a multi-car shunt from behind) this is where common sense comes in as if the roads were empty than an emergency stop with some swerve might have avoided the collision safely.

 

Take photos of all angles of your car - this is a must before it goes to the garage as you might need to prove if the garage damages any other part of your car but more importantly it proves the direction of travel of both cars, approximate speed of each car and the response of each driver (to a certain degree). If the accident is as you say then the only damage to your car will be to the side and not to the front and visa-vera for the 3rd party.

 

There is CCTV - you said there was a bus in the left lane - ask for the CCTV footage from the bus operator - Someone here should be able to advise you on how to do that formally (I think there is normally a £10 charge when requesting things like this but someone here can advise further)

 

Your photos are ok but only offer a hint of where the accident was - take a few more photos as a pedestrian when the road is empty (and please be careful of traffic) and also go onto google maps to get a few arial shots . Use bold colours on Paint or whatever programme you used (such as green for your car, red for 3rd party and yellow or blue for the bus and other traffic). Use rectangles to show the postitions of the cars instantly prior the collision, at the point of impact and instantly after the collision. Try to get these printed in at least A4 size and in colour as you do not know how far from the judge you will be or how good their eyesight is. The postion of traffic to the left or your car can aid your argument that you had no space to swerve left. Copy these pictures in email to your insurance as further information to your claim (may have to split it accross 2 emails depending on how many megabytes you can email and they can recieve in one go) These pictures will help you a lot if it goes to court as, if the 3rd party is lying, they may have trouble arguing with you if they have not done similar prep. You may also get re-imbursed for the cost of ink and paper + interest at whatever rate was aggreed between the barristers and the court (also you would get any excess you paid refunded with the same insterest if found 100% in your favour).

 

The most important thing is to make sure your insurance company presses the matter and takes it to court for you or allows the 3rd party to take it to court - PUT IT IN WRITING to your insurance company that you KNOW that the 3rd party is 100% liable and YOU WILL GO TO COURT if needs be to prove it. Remember if you do take the matter to court and it does not go 100% in your favour then you need to know what the implications are, hence the question about legal cover.

 

Also remember that your insurance renewal is likely to increase as a result of this even if you are found in the clear - if you are proved in the clear and the renewal price increases then phone up argue with the insurance when you renew that any increase is unfair as you should not be penalised for the 3rd parties actions.

 

I'm afraid insurers do not have to act as ordered by the OP, they have the right of subrogation. The OP needs to convince his/ her insurer that this is worth them fighting in court.

 

In this case, I would expect a more favourable settlement for the OP but not completely blame free because let's not forget that a green light means go IF SAFE. If the OP manages a completely blame free settlement then I wouldn't be surprised but I would just suggest don't expect it.

 

CCTV (if available) can be obtained via a SAR under the DPA but I think the OP has now instructed a lawyer so it shouldn't be an issue.

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In these types of scenarios, always ask the police to take a formal statement from you as you wish to press charges. I'm afraid there is no room for sentiment as it just puts you out of pocket.

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

 

Contrary to popular belief, you can't force the police to press charges (or take a statement). It would obviously be prudent of them if they attend.

 

Just to add to that, police reports of the standard variety only provide a brief synopsis of what MAY have occurred with a police officer's opinion on who MAY be at fault. Don't expect too much.

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Contrary to popular belief, you can't force the police to press charges (or take a statement). It would obviously be prudent of them if they attend.

 

Just to add to that, police reports of the standard variety only provide a brief synopsis of what MAY have occurred with a police officer's opinion on who MAY be at fault. Don't expect too much.

 

I did say "ask". Having said that in the few occasions I have been involved in rtc's where I believe have been caused by a traffic offence, I have ASKED the police to attend and they have. However, they do tend to try and fob you off. But if you are prepared to make a statement about a third party, then you must be prepared to go to court.

 

In the circumstances that the OP describes, I would of certainly asked the police to charge the other driver especially as they gave her a "formal warning about her driving".

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

 

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I did say "ask". Having said that in the few occasions I have been involved in rtc's where I believe have been caused by a traffic offence, I have ASKED the police to attend and they have. However, they do tend to try and fob you off. But if you are prepared to make a statement about a third party, then you must be prepared to go to court.

 

 

 

In the circumstances that the OP describes, I would of certainly asked the police to charge the other driver especially as they gave her a "formal warning about her driving".

 

 

 

Please Note

 

 

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

 

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

 

 

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But what would this 'formal warning' consist of - a ticking off or a verbal NIP ( not that it's needed) or perhaps that driver would be suitable fodder for the driver improvement scheme?

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But what would this 'formal warning' consist of - a ticking off or a verbal NIP ( not that it's needed) or perhaps that driver would be suitable fodder for the driver improvement scheme?

 

Dosn't matter as long as it shows that the other driver was deemed at fault. As such, the insurers would find it difficult to decide 50/50 liability.

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

 

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Dosn't matter as long as it shows that the other driver was deemed at fault. As such, the insurers would find it difficult to decide 50/50 liability.

 

 

 

Please Note

 

 

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

 

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

 

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

 

 

 

 

Are you suggesting that a formal warning (which doesn't exist) will stop the insurer settling 50/50?

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Are you suggesting that a formal warning (which doesn't exist) will stop the insurer settling 50/50?

 

No. But if the police felt there was sufficient reason to give a 'formal warning' (according to the OP), then I see no reason why they shouldn't of taken a statement from the OP with the view of considering a prosecution. I think under those circumstances, the OP's insurers should push for no liability against their policy holder. I have had this on at least 2 occasions in the 30 odd years of my driving career and I worked both times for me. At the end of the day most RTC's are caused by driver error which is usually attributed to a motoring offence of some sort.

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

 

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The problem is that there is no such thing as a 'formal warning' so the case has to be defended on the facts, not something spurious and most likely misunderstood.

 

It may well be that the third party driver was warned that the fact will be reported for the consideration of proceedings, and maybe that is what the OP meant, but without that actual facts, an insurer could hardly use 'the TP was warned'. In any event, criminal proceedings are not necessarily relevant in negligence cases. For example, you can be stuck on for speeding but are you being negligent? Not necessarily, I would suggest!

 

What probably helped your prior claims is detail! The OP should, and probably is, doing the same.

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  • 1 year later...

Just posting to say this situation was happily resolved... despite the lack of help from the insurance company.

 

My partner was told by the insurers that as there was no evidence to suggest the other motorist was in the wrong she would have to settle for a 50/50.

 

My partner found out who the police officer was who was at the scene after the accident and contacted him. He wrote a letter detailing that the CCTV evidence from the bus travelling in the lane next to that my partner clearly shows the other motorist jumping a red light, the officer detailed how my partner was not liable in any way.

 

I thought the reason we paid insurance companies was so they could carry out these investigations? It's also sickening that the other motorist told an outright lie to cover herself and put my partner through a very tough time.

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Never trust Insurance companies, they will try and not take action which could cost them monies, hence legal insurance they all push, then it is up to you to chase and see if they will take the case, like all money infested organisation in the last 3 decades are out to make profit as much as possible with out effort, and you/us the customer are a cash cow/

:mad2::-x:jaw::sad:
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Hello,

 

I have been in the same situation as you and ordered the insurance company to take it to the court if the 3rd party did not admit 100% liability - Remember the insurance company must act as you wish.

 

REALLY? I think insurance companies do exactly what they like irrespective of what the policyholder 'orders' them to do. Usually you get palmed off on a claims handling company who aren't much interested apart from flogging you an expensive credit hire car. Even for legal cover, the insurer will only take on cases they think they can win. You are living in cloud cuckoo land if you think "the insurance company must act as you wish"; show me anywhere where the terms and conditions or the law states that?

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  • 1 month later...
In these types of scenarios, always ask the police to take a formal statement from you as you wish to press charges. I'm afraid there is no room for sentiment as it just puts you out of pocket.

 

 

 

Please Note

 

 

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

 

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

 

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

 

 

 

 

But you can't 'press charges'. You can make a complaint but there's no guarantee that it will be progressed to prosecution.

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