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No original agreement of debt causing stress after bereavement of child please help

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Hi,

i would like to fill you in on what happened 15 years ago.

Our 17 month old daughter was diagnosed with Neuroblastoma cancer, we were informed she had a 5% chance of survival .

We went to see the manager at Lloyds TSB to inform them of our circumstances and to ask that no phone calls were to be made to us;

all correspondence was to be in writing.

The bank ignored our request and rang us on numerous occasions and just 5 minutes after finding out our daughter had only a week to live;

Sadly she passed on at 21 months old.

 

The bank carried on ringing and demanding payments ( we have the letter from 15 years ago from the bank admitting this ).

 

We feel that all the payments made so far were under distress.

There have been 5 different collection agencies contacting us,

each one we have had to explain our situation again which distressed us more.

 

We have been asking Lloyds TSB for the past 10 years for the original agreement,

Westcott took over the collection in November 2012 and we stated that we did not nor ever owed them the money

that they requested and that all payments were under duress.

 

We requested the original documents once again,

Westcott replied that their client Lloyds TSB doesn't have any documents or copies

 

Westcott sent us a letter saying that as far as they were concerned the matter was finished and that we must continue paying.

 

On the 20th of November we replied stating they had no right to request money without the original agreements

and as far as we were concerned the matter was still in dispute until Lloyds TSB contacted us; Still awaiting a reply.

 

We received a letter from Morecroft collection agency in June 2013 stating that their client had registered a default against

my Credit score without any warning.

 

We contacted the ombudsman as Lloyds TSB refused to discuss the whole matter;

The Ombudsman then contacted Lloyds and told them they must resolve all issues.

 

Lloyds TSB phoned up i have asked for no more phone calls and to have all correspondence in writing,

it is very difficult to discuss the matter to every different person that rings as it is very distressful for me and my partner.

 

They decided to ring up today ignoring all my requests yet again,

I asked to speak to a manager;

she then insisted that she was the manager.

 

When i asked to speak to somebody higher than herself she wanted to know exactly why;

i had to go through all the stress of explaining what happened 15 years ago.

 

I then asked to speak to her superior as i had no confidence with her dealing with my complaint.

 

She refused to let me speak to anybody higher than herself.

 

I contacted the Ombudsman to inform them of Lloyds TSB were refusing me contact with the manager;

 

Can the bank refuse me access to their superior ?

 

Can they put my default on my credit record while under dispute and without a true copy of the original agreement ?

 

How do i obtain any information they hold on me/my account ?

 

I originally opened up a complaint in 1998 about the way i was treated,

I had to deadlock the complaint due to the mental distress it was causing me.

 

The ombudsman awarded me £250 which i refused as the complaint was not complete.

Please advise me on what to do

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hi

what is the matter related to? credit card, loan, overdraft, combination?

 

consider doing a subject access request for ALL data that they hold. that should produce some useful info.

 

any missold PPI?

 

it seems as if loyds still own the matter, doing the rounds, and it has not been sold on?

 

could raise a specific complaint to their complaints dept re requesting any communication in writing only.

 

also, when writing re dsar request, also request that all tel numbers are removed from all of your records.

if they phone,

just ask for any comms in writng, then put the phone down.

they are then on further notice. (although their records prob won't show that! )

 

further details needed re ombudsman complant and findings, and why not complete.

 

when was the last payment?

have you done a cca request?

it is noted that they have said they don't have any original docs.

keep that confirmation.

Edited by Ford

IMO

:-):rant:

 

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Thank you very much for responding.

 

I don't know exactly where the debt came from as they have never given me any information on how the debt occurred.

 

I had a £1000 loan which only had 3 months left when my daughter got ill, It has PPI on and these are the only documents i can find.

 

I also had a £700 overdraft limit but they say i owe them over £8000,

 

i don't understand where they got this figure from,

 

i am sure i didn't have any other loans at the time but i cant be 100% sure as my main concern was my daughter.

 

Is there anything i can do about the default they have recently placed on my credit score ?

 

due to the matters being under dispute at the time of the default with no warning.

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Sorry the last payment was November 2012

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You need to send a Subject Access Request to LTSB, this is a request for ALL data they hold on you in respect of your financial relationship with them. They have 40 calendar days in which to respond. The link below will take you to a draft SAR letter - you will need to enclose £10.00 either cheque or postal order and send the letter by recorded delivery post. Check Royal Mail Website a few days after posting to ensure they have received it and if so, print off the signature as proof.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?552-Data-Protection

 

Once you have all the information you can start to consider what your next move is.

 

You suspect there might PPI on the loan, in which case, is it likely that it could have been mis sold ?

 

Once you receive the data you will also be able to discover what penalty default charges have been added to the accounts - you might be able to reclaim these if the were on credit debts, but probably not if it was an overdraft debt.


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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy -

HERE

2: Take back control of your finances -

Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors?

Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt

Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated -

Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

 

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Never accepted the offer from the ombudsman as the dispute was causing too much distress at the time so that we could carry on complaint at a future date did not have opportunity at time to find out where debt came from as it was deadlocked.

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I would suggest that you only communicate with LTSB in writing from now on. That way you are not put under any stress and you have a record of what is being said.


Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy -

HERE

2: Take back control of your finances -

Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors?

Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt

Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated -

Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

 

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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the letters from the dca's should state what it relates to?

anyway, do a full subject access request, that should produce info. and in the meantime write to loyds complaints, and consumer debt recovery, requesting comm in writing only.

consider any complaint re missold ppi.

is not statute barred then.

if there was an actual default, then they usually are entitled to register one but its date must be accurate and not rolled up. and, you may be able to challenge things. see what info comes back. there are default guidelines re defaults if you want to take a look. http://www.ico.org.uk/for_organisations/guidance_index/~/media/documents/library/Data_Protection/Detailed_specialist_guides/default_tgn_version_v3%20%20doc.ashx

Edited by Ford

IMO

:-):rant:

 

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Could you let me know if this is alright please

 

I request, that all telephone numbers are removed from all of your records.

All communications are to be in writing only

When you phoned me up i requested no more phone calls and yet you still phoned me up on purpose so you can get me upset and aggravated this company also used this tactic when my daughter was dying of cancer in 1998 this sort of behaviour must cease.

When i asked to speak to a manager access was denied why

Once i receive the information i requested i will then start my complaint.c

 

Yours

 

Request for proof of Default

 

Account No:

I am concerned to note that your company has placed a "Default" notice against an alleged account I held with you.

After recently receiving a letter from moorcroft on the 19/06/2013 it states that you have recently put a default on p xxxxxx credit file while the account was still under dispute because you wrote to us and said you had no credit agreement relating to any account if this is not a dispute could you please tell me what is a dispute .

 

Further to this, I have no recollection of ever receiving such a notice, and I therefore require you to substantiate this data.

 

1. Please also supply me with a signed, true certified copy of the original default notice.

 

2. You are notified that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not under S189 of the CCA 1974.

 

I would request that this data is provided to me within the next 14 days. If you are unable to provide this data then I require all adverse information to be removed completely, including any defaults that may have been applied. Please note that mere correction or amendment to the entry will not be acceptable.

 

Yours

 

Section 7 Data Protection Act - Subject Access Request

 

Account No:

 

Please supply me with a copy of all information your company hold on me including a list of accounts and details of payments.

 

Under the Data Protection Act 1984 and 1998, and including the right of subject access under these acts, I hereby request that you supply me with any and all historical data in your possession which relates to me and am entitled to under section 7(1) of the Act.

 

If you store any of the older records on microfiche, please be aware that the Information Commissioner deems this to be a relevant filing system under the Act. As such, any microfiche data must be sent to me in fully legible and comprehensible form.

 

Additionally, where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff, or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my business with you.

 

If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, then please be so kind as to confirm this in your response.

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply. Furthermore, if I discover that you have levied disproportionate penalties against me or collected monies to which you were not entitled, then I shall be reclaiming them and also the enclosed £10 Data Protection Act subject access request fee.

 

Yours

 

Consumer Credit Act 1974

Account No:

I hereby formally request a copy of my Consumer Credit Agreement, pursuant to s.77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

I require you to provide me with a true copy of the credit agreement relating to any account you deem to be mine, together with any other documentation the Act requires you to provide. I expect you to comply fully and properly with this request, within the statutory time limit (12 + 2 days). You are reminded that should you fail to comply with my request; the provisions of s.77 will apply.

 

Your attention is drawn to ss.5(2), 3(b),6 and 7 of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPUTR). I enclose a personal cheque in the sum of £1.00, which is the statutory fee. Note that these funds are not to be used for any other purpose.

 

If you are unable to comply fully and properly with this request, you should confirm this in writing at the earliest opportunity, and certainly within the statutory time limit for compliance, and return the fee and then remove the incorrect entry from your systems.

 

I do, expect the main actions to be dealt with, as matter of course, and look forward to hearing from you within the prescribed time-scale quoted.

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you wont get a copy of the DN

 

all they have to do is have a note [within the SAR data]

 

that one was sent.

 

so remove that bit.

 

it concerns me that you are relating to issues more than 6yrs ago.

 

 

you might have to await the SAR

 

but to me, this smell of the debt 'should' be statute barred by now?

anyhow, get that sar off.

 

on the defaulted cra file, it should give info on what type of debt this was

 

dx


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, the whole DCA industry would collapse overnight.

 

 

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You have my deepest sympathy for the loss of your beautiful and precious daughter at such a young age.

 

However I must admit I am rather confused that you are reliving this in a complaint some 15 years later.

 

If I could summarise your complaint.

 

Whilst you were in the midst of worrying about your daughter, the Bank pressured you with telephone calls. Even after explaining your circumstances at the time, the calls did on not cease and you made payments.

 

You continued to make payments after the death of your daughter, and also made several requests for copies of the agreement.

 

 

Sadly, even if they don't produce documents, for whatever reason, they can and will pursue for payment and report to the credit agencies. The only thing they cant do is to obtain a court judgment.

 

Did you stop making payments for a period of 6 years at all ? If this is the case, then the debt is likely to be statute barred.


Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy -

HERE

2: Take back control of your finances -

Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors?

Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt

Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated -

Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

 

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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We have only stopped paying since November last year but i have asked for documents to prove how the debt occurred but they say they have no records.

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It is supposed to be that they no longer need to keep records for 5/7 years after the financial relationship has ended (according to tax and money laundering rules).

 

However the Information Commissioner will almost certainly advise that they only need to keep this information for as "long as is necessary".

 

IMHO, if there is a dispute on the account, which in this instances appears to be the case, then they should be prevented from destroying any record until the dispute is resolved satisfactorily for both sides.

 

Has this account been sold to the 3rd party ? And when did this take place ?


Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy -

HERE

2: Take back control of your finances -

Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors?

Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt

Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated -

Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

 

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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No it still belongs to Lloyds-tsb

 

Only my partner has been named on the collection documents and been making payments.

So could i use the 6 year ruling as i have not paid anything in the past 15 years ?

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If this is a joint loan then BOTH parties should be mentioned on the documents !

 

Yes, if no payment or acknowledgement of liability has been made in 6 years then the debt will be statute barred.


Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy -

HERE

2: Take back control of your finances -

Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors?

Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt

Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated -

Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

 

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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The only documents i have received have been 5 years of statements and never received anything prior to that.

 

My partner has only also received 7 years of statements and no statements prior

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is it a joint matter? if so, payment from either party would prob suffice re resetting the statute bar clock? even if not joint, payment to a debt from a connected party may also suffice? you said there was a payment Nov 12?

what is the type of credit matter related to?

Edited by Ford

IMO

:-):rant:

 

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we had a small joint loan and a joint bank account when our daughter was ill everything went to pot after she died, my partner tried to commit suicide on more than 1 occasion so we just paid so much a month. As far as i can gather this is where the debt was when i felt capable of asking several years down the line all i got was threatening phone calls pay up or else that's when we went to the ombudsman, my partner got pregnant and we were informed our new daughter could also have the cancer so we had to keep taking her for tests and that's why we deadlocked the complaint as i could not deal with any more.

 

I had a mortgage with Bradford and Bingley and they froze the account with no interest and no payment until we were ready they could not have been any nicer.

 

The bank treated us really shabbily with no respect whatsoever.

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ok, so seems then is re a joint loan and/or bank acc. presume for the mo then that it is not statute barred. see what comes back re your dsar, ensure that that includes all customer notes, diary notes, complaint notes, memo timelines, transaction lists, any copy agreements, etc

and, as citb says, ensure any comms in writing given the circumstances.

where there are difficulties a lender should be sympathetic (as your mortgage co was?), eg Lending Code, Irresponsible Lending Code, OFT Guide, BCOBS, etc

Edited by Ford

IMO

:-):rant:

 

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I would like to thank everyone for helping me so far and i will wait for the banks reply on the dsar.

I will then let you know as i have not a clue how they came to that figure.

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in the meantime, is all ok? easy to say, but don't let 'them' get things down. there is always a way forward/resolution, and you'll also get help here :)

any questions just post up.


IMO

:-):rant:

 

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I would be tempted to find a sympathetic journalist .........

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Hi, I have just received this letter from Moorcroft, I rang the ombudsman up and they started that they had told moorcroft not to contact me while it was still under dispute, But as you can see they have ignored this request. What do you recommend me to do ? as they have always done this every time i have put in a request for the information, the next one they send is usually a letter threatening legal action plus phone calls which i usually start paying again under distress, This time i have no intentions of paying.

DSC09760.JPG

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auto generated template letter. would think ignore them, they are acting on instruction from loyds, and continue complaints/dispute with loyds reminding them of what the fos said etc. if you do any dispute letters etc to moor, they will just refer them back to loyds anyway for instruction on it?


IMO

:-):rant:

 

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