Advise needed RE RBS CC goodwill offer.

[Claygo]

Hi all, this is my first post and may be a bit long winded so please bear with me.

 

I complained to RBS about PPI on the 21/04/13 on a Mint c/c that I took out in Dec 2003 and 8 wks later received a reply along these lines,

 

You will be pleased to know I have finished my review into your concerns about your PPI. Your concerns are important to us.

In the circumstances, as a goodwill gesture and without admission of liability the bank is prepared to make you the offer set out below.

 

To cut a long story short they go on to offer me £888.62 broken down as follows...

 

Refund of premiums paid between 13 Dec 03 and 13 Jan 09 £532.43

 

Compound interest on premiums based on unterest rate charged on c/c £93.61

 

Total £626.04

 

Gross interest @ FOS rate £328.23

 

Less tax at 20% £65.65

Net interest £262.58

 

Total offer £888.62.

 

Now, I have only just paid off an outstanding balance of £105 which has been there since Jan 2009 (messy reasons, business going belly up, divorce etc) but not sure this is relevant!

 

On receiving this offer I phoned RBS and asked for a breakdown as it was a bit confusing how they had calculated it and this week I received said breakdown which showed nothing but the premiums id paid each month, so after searching this site for relevant calculators I did my own calculation.

 

Using the FOSCISheet v101 for the compound interest, at 18.9% APR it calculated it at £1757.88, lots more than the £93.61 RBS have offered. So today I phoned them again to point this out to them and a young lady told me I had 2 options if I didnt agree with their offer. 1/ Provide proof that I had paid more interest than they had offered, or 2/ Take it to the FSO.

I asked how I could prove it and she told me to provide bank statements which would show the ammount of interest paid!!! When I pointed out that bank statements would only show the single ammount paid off against the card and wouldnt show interest, she just said take it to the FSO!!!

 

Now my question is do I accept the offer of £888.62 or do I take it to the FSO based on the FSO spreadsheet calculation being so much higher than RBS offer?

 

Any help and advice would be appreciated and again I apologise for the long post.

 

Claygo

[ims21]

Don't suppose you have all of the credit card statements do you?

 

You should also write to them and demand the detailed breakdown of premiums and the interest calculations.

[Claygo]

Hi, thanks for the rapid response, No unfortunately I dont have all statements. During my first phone call with them I asked for a detailed breakdown of the offer and 10 days later received a letter only showing dates and ammounts of PPI paid. These are what I used to calculate compound interest on the FOSCISheet v101 from 13/12/03 to 21/04/13 which is when I made my complaint.

[ims21]

Ok so as above, write to them and get them to provide you with the FULL breakdown of how their offer is calculated, premium by premium.

 

The amount of contractual (compound) interest you get will depend upon how the account was operated. For example there may have been periods where there was no balance on the account and thus no interest charged to the account. The FosCI sheet won't take that into account since it calculates compound interest without taking account of any such breaks.

[Claygo]

Does this have to be done in writing or can I ask again over the phone? Once gain thanks for your help.

[ims21]

You could try over the phone but make sure you tell them that you want the complete, full and itemised breakdown. Don't be fobbed off.

 

If it were me I would put the demand in writing but you never know, you might be lucky on the phone.

[Claygo]

Ok thanks. I'll let you know how I get on.

[Andybars]

The other option would be either to make a request for duplicate statements or send a Data Subject Access Request to RBS, the statements will show the actual interest rate that you paid.

 

Looking at the figures given and your comments about there being issues paying the final balance - is it possible that the account was defaulted and Mint stopped charging interest some years ago ?. This may explain the low compound interest rate and also that the 8% FOS interest rate is relatively high. If you can clarify the interest rate history on the account via statements or obtaining the full calculation from RBS this should give you a bit more idea as to whether or not the offer is correct. The other thing to bear in mind is that Mint cards often had a 0% introductory rate which would again have a bearing on the interest that you paid.

[Claygo]

The interest rate on the card was 1.456% per month which I believe equates to 18.9% APR. Just phoned again and spoke to a young lady who refused to give me her surname (against banking policy apparently) to ask for a full and itemised breakdown of the offer. Initially she said that they only calculated interest using FOS rate of 8%. I told her that in my offer there was an ammount attributed to compound interest at rate charged on the card and I need to know how this figure had been calculated. She said she would email the relevant department to ask for my breakdown as requested, but she didnt know if they would do it or not! Now its a case of waiting for yet another 7 to 10 working days to see if anything arrives.

[ims21]

That's the danger in speaking on the phone. First off it is highly unlikely that a phone operative will know what they are talking about and also you cannot know that your request (demand) has been passed on.

 

By the way, where this person says she didn't know if they can do it, that just shows complete ignorance.

 

They cannot refuse to give you the details if you want them. How can you be expected to accept or decline an offer if you don't know how it is calculated?

[Claygo]

Totally agree ims21! I would accept the offer straight away if I was 100% sure that it was a fair. They just seem unwilling to show me that it is a fair offer! Do you think I should still put it in writing to them?

[ims21]

If it were me, yes

[Andybars]

RBS do have a habit of digging their heels in around sending calculations and even if the phone operative you spoke to requested a breakdown the most likely responses of the "relevant department" are a) Send a further copy of what you have already had b) Do nothing. I agree with ims21 that it is worth requesting the information from them in writing to pursue this although be prepared for an unsatisfactory response.

 

Turning to your earlier comment on the interest rate - are you certain that you have been charged 1.456% every month since Dec 2003. I am aware from dealing with a number of Mint cases previously that in the cases I have seen the interest rates changed relatively regularly and even a small change compounded over time could make a big difference to your own figures

[Claygo]

I will endeavour to find out Andy through the limited ammount of statements I have. Im not holding my breath re the full breakdown, but as ims says how can I be expected to accept an offer when I have no idea how the interest has been calculated? Would the FOS take a dim view on how RBS are dealing with my request re the breakdown? Surely there must be some guidelines to be adhered to.

[Andybars]

Unfortunately, FOS appear to accept the word of lenders when they state that an offer is in line with FOS Guidance. I have been told previously by FOS that a lender's calculations are "commercially sensitive" information despite the fact that I already know the output figure and the methodology that they should have used.

 

Due to the backlog of cases at FOS they tend to try and view an offer to a customer as the end of their involvement. Due to the huge expansion of FOS, it is fair to suggest that many of the adjudicators taken on to deal with PPI cases have had neither the experience or the training to check calculations. Where cases are being referred to FOS for calculation queries my own experience is that these are being dealt with very slowly.

 

FOS will look at the case and if you push them hard enough you should eventually get full calculation figures on the case, however I would be surprised if this works through the system for at least a year.

 

I would be tempted to make a DSAR request and within that make specific reference to the calculations for your complaint. Again this is not a quick option - I am aware that RBS are struggling to hit a 40 day turnaround on these currently