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what is the 12+ months??

 

so what if you are not recommended for reassessment for 12 months? do you come under the 12+ months or the 12 months ?

 

If you are an ESA(ir) claimant with a 12 month or greater prognosis, you fall in to "payment group 5". This means participation in the WP is optional from the WCA outcome, but once signed up, participation is mandatory - As I read this, it means you can volunteer to participate, but once you do, any/all activities become mandatory.

 

See Chapter 2 of the DWP published provider guidance for (brief) details of each claimant group.


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If you are an ESA(ir) claimant with a 12 month or greater prognosis, you fall in to "payment group 5". This means participation in the WP is optional from the WCA outcome, but once signed up, participation is mandatory - As I read this, it means you can volunteer to participate, but once you do, any/all activities become mandatory.

 

.

 

i have got off the phone to job centre plus ESA, and there is no 12 month rule apparently.

once you are in WRAG you have to go where you are sent.

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:Between:

 

Overlooked that you can't be mandated to the work programme anyway. :biggrin:

 

Back at the Jobcentre you can only be asked to do what's reasonable given the limiting effects of your health conditions. So if Atos gave points for problems dealing with other people you can argue not to be sent into a group situation with twenty others cos it'd increase your anxiety. And you can't be sent anywhere that's a mile from the nearest bus stop.

 

Good luck, Margaret. :thumb:

 

does not apeat to be like that in my case have as degerative spine and had a stroke that put me on esa , have been forced to do a 2 week 14 day corse that was not only useles but i tolod them it would make me ill , i did manage it but at the end of the week could not use my hands and hardly able to walk , some 6 weeks later have not recovered and next week will be forced to go on another 3 day corse even though my farm clearly states suffer from severe exhastion and will end up in bed after 3 hours

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does not apeat to be like that in my case have as degerative spine and had a stroke that put me on esa , have been forced to do a 2 week 14 day corse that was not only useles but i tolod them it would make me ill , i did manage it but at the end of the week could not use my hands and hardly able to walk , some 6 weeks later have not recovered and next week will be forced to go on another 3 day corse even though my farm clearly states suffer from severe exhastion and will end up in bed after 3 hours

 

which provider?

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i have got off the phone to job centre plus ESA, and there is no 12 month rule apparently.

once you are in WRAG you have to go where you are sent.

 

Read the guidance in the link Mr P posted - it quite clearly explains how those in the WRAG with a 12 month prognosis are affected. Participation in the WP is not mandatory for such claimants. That guidance was updated Dec 2014.

 

Edit: No, rereading, I think the 12 months might only apply to carers or those with young children.

 

Edit again: Hmm. I think now that I do read it the way Mr P did - ESA(RI) claimants with a 12+ month prognosis are Mandatory Participants from the point they optionally choose to enter the WP. Who makes this **** up?


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have been forced to do a 2 week 14 day corse that was not only useles but i tolod them it would make me ill , i did manage it but at the end of the week could not use my hands and hardly able to walk , [...] and next week will be forced to go on another 3 day corse

 

You have the right to ask for a reconsideration of this "activity" for medical reasons as per Chapter 3a, paragraph 48 (page 14) of the Work Programme guidance: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/366745/wp-pg-chapter-3a-22-october-2012.pdf If the provider fails to reconsider, you can pursue a formal complaint, involving your local MP if need be.


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does not apeat to be like that in my case have as degerative spine and had a stroke that put me on esa , have been forced to do a 2 week 14 day corse that was not only useles but i tolod them it would make me ill , i did manage it but at the end of the week could not use my hands and hardly able to walk , some 6 weeks later have not recovered and next week will be forced to go on another 3 day corse even though my farm clearly states suffer from severe exhastion and will end up in bed after 3 hours

 

Do you meet any of the criteria for support group? Doesn't sound to me as if work related activity group is appropriate for you.

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which provider?[/QUOT

 

cheshire training in macclesfield , now called armstrog work , one day i was also told i could not go untill i had appled for 6 jobs untill i complained as am on esa

 

also the strange thing is i was put on the esa work related group with no medical , and it clearly states my condition and what i am unable to do on the form i sent in , i would have asumed they are acepting my condition to be as on the form but appears not

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thank you yes i do and have just returned the forms , but this shows just how silly the situation is , i always intended to go back to work as i have in the past worked around my condition , and was doing some permited work before the work program and planing to slowly return to part time .so never gave it a second thought that i was on the work related activity , it now appears my only chance of geting back to do any work is if i can get on the support group . !!!!!!

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thank you yes i do and have just returned the forms , but this shows just how silly the situation is , i always intended to go back to work as i have in the past worked around my condition , and was doing some permited work before the work program and planing to slowly return to part time .so never gave it a second thought that i was on the work related activity , it now appears my only chance of geting back to do any work is if i can get on the support group . !!!!!!

 

you appear to be in a similar situation to me in the sense that the WRAG group is actually making matter worse thus hindering my chance of working again.

i have decided that if and when i am able to earn my own money again, i shall be making sure the DWP know it had nothing to do with the work programme so they get zero 'commission'.

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thank you for your reply been on to the ESA compaints line they have told me to take it up with my PM is a worse situation than i thought and this is going to get a lot of people

 

It appears a one year prognostics only means you will be reassessed for a year , for some reason I was assessed without a medical and put on the WRAG group with a 3 month prognosis ( meaning to be looked at in 3 months not fit for work in 3 months ) , now here is where it gets bad , they don’t pass on a copy of the esa50 to the work provider so they assume are fit to work with a 3 month prognosis even though I have a degenerative illness have just emailed them a copy of my esa50 as my argument is “ if they approved ESA with just the form and sick notes they must agree that is what is wrong and the problems it gives me “

 

looks like another IDS trick they set imposable tasks for you to o if on ESA then sanction you when you fail and magic you disappear of the statistics

 

I did ask who was responsible if I end up in casualty and he did not want to answer

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whatever activity they make you do, it must be something that's reasonable in regards to your illness and what you can reasonably do.

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whatever activity they make you do, it must be something that's reasonable in regards to your illness and what you can reasonably do.

 

it appears not as they dont have any infomation about my condition so cant know ,a good example was today they know i cant write , so sent me a form in the post i have to compleate and bring in with me wensday for this 3 day corse , i forgot to add i was sanctioned a few weeks ago for mising one appontment whewn they had conflicting times , both were set by the same wrok provider who insisted i should have gone to one meetimng then the other , one was a think 9am-1pm the other at 10 am-11 am same day , i went to the 9am-1pm . i did get the sanction removed but what hope have i got with people that think 10 am comes after 1 am . also as i had a stroke have a very bad memory , so even if i had missed it i think reasonable

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I would seriously consider putting a complaint in. I had to constantly do the same. And yes, it did get rather boring after a while and it was clear they couldn't understand that I can't do something. I got the impression that they thought I was being awkward and lying. When in fact, that wasn't the case and I really couldn't do what they wanted.

 

In the end, (I was on JSA, btw. But as someone who is disabled, they still had to take that into account) I got my GP to sign me off sick and am now in support group.

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thank you for your reply simular situation as i was self employed working around my disability untill i had a stroke that put me in ESA i had every intension of returning to work untill the work program messed it up , i think they have real problems here i was talking to the advisor like she totaly in the dark , now i find out not her fault she is kept in the dark as al it says is my name DOB NI no and prognossis 3 months , she was not even corectly told what thaty actuly means , even the job center are agreing i should be in the suport group but i have to do this silly work program untill they complease a reassesment . i have thought of trying to get there funding removed as europe are not alowed by law to fund something that breaks the human rights act . has anyone else tried that , could get them thinking

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Now you can see why Cameron wants us out of the EU, so he doesn't have to abide by this act, the sneaky git.

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You really need to appeal this decision. You don't need to wait until the 3 months is up / you're reassessed. If you believe that you meet the criteria for the support group and 13 months hasn't lapsed since the decision, then you can appeal.

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i have already sent off the new esa50 after filling it in with the help of the citezens advice

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i have checked with the DWP complaints resolution team and 3 monts prognosse does not mean you are fit for work in 3 months at all , it means they will look at you again in 3 months maybe with a medical as in my case never had a medical , problem is the email i sent to the work provda and there reply

 

Hi Chris,

 

This means that according to a medical professional from DWP you will be ready to and able to look for work within 3/6 months of being on the Work Programme.

 

Regards

 

On 10 February 2015 at 10:19, chris booth wrote:

Hi Laura

This may sound a silly question you keep saying I am down as with a 3 months prognoses , what do you think that means ?

 

 

chris

 

 

i have emailed the work provda and given then the phone number of the person i spote to at the DWP but got no reply , so will still have to go on the 3 days course that i am medicly unable to do

 

i now suspect this is no mistake but seetec polocy to "make" esa claments JSA claments and they have been found out

 

 

 

 

--

Laura Van Weerdenburg

Employment Consultant

Armstrong Works

 

Sunderland House

1 Sunderland Street

Macclesfield

Cheshire

SK11 6JF

 

 

T: 0161 247 4990

T: 0330 123 3152

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Read the guidance in the link Mr P posted - it quite clearly explains how those in the WRAG with a 12 month prognosis are affected. Participation in the WP is not mandatory for such claimants. That guidance was updated Dec 2014.

 

Edit: No, rereading, I think the 12 months might only apply to carers or those with young children.

 

Edit again: Hmm. I think now that I do read it the way Mr P did - ESA(RI) claimants with a 12+ month prognosis are Mandatory Participants from the point they optionally choose to enter the WP. Who makes this **** up?

See page 5 of the provider guidance, it states that ESA(IR)WRAG with a new12 month prognosis are mandatory participants after 12th Nov 2012.

I scraped in before this cut off date, and it was this that was pivotal with regard to my battle with Seetec. Seetec insisted that I had been mandated to the programe, I argued that as my award pre dated the 12th Nov 2012 the (in my case) 24 month prognosis held and I had declined to participate with the programe.

 

The regs are confusing, and it looks like the provider guidance PDF has been altered, I'll try to find my original copy because I'm sure it has extra information regarding claimants with a 12+month prognosis. However it looks very much like the DWP have closed the 12+month 'loophole'.


 

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Being poor is like being a Pelican. No matter where you look, all you see is a large bill.

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i dont think it actuly matters as seetec will just ignore any rules , just be warned i am beging to find out just how evil they are , i cant even complain because i do they bring me into there office but dont give me a writen responce and the DWP wont look at my complaint untill seetec have and they know that ,

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i dont think it actuly matters as seetec will just ignore any rules , just be warned i am beging to find out just how evil they are , i cant even complain because i do they bring me into there office but dont give me a writen responce and the DWP wont look at my complaint untill seetec have and they know that ,

 

So acquaint yourself with the rules and regulations, print out anything pertaining to your situation or complaint, and remind Seetec of their obligations at every opportunity. If your Seetec office is anything like the one I dealt with they will try to fob you off and obfuscate the facts, present them with the paperwork and they have nowhere to go.

 

Use their own rules against them. Above all, stand your ground, these people rely on claimants folding because they are either too afraid to say anything, or they don't know the regulations.


 

Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges

 

Being poor is like being a Pelican. No matter where you look, all you see is a large bill.

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Well things are getting worse today I was forced to go on a coarse that I said I was not able to do had the embracement if explaining in a room full of people I could not fill in the forms because I cant use my hands well enough to write , then later could not fill in the multi choice questions because of the format that requires me to remember what is written at the top of the page to answer the question , said something like rate you ability of 0 to 1 with 1 being the best , I cant actual remember it long enough to fill in the form , then went on to other questions that required me to read a page then answer questions about it , same problem . added to that I have a neck problem and there was a video screen at one end of the room and a board the presented was writing one at the other end , it was very painful to have to repeatedly move my next from side to side , I have a degerative cervical spine with trapped nerves

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Get your GP to write a letter explaining your situation. They should take you seriously then.

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thank you i have an apointment next week , i have already shown them letters from the hospitel consultant they have ignored them

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