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Welcome finance/hagarty claim form with forced PPI***Claim Discontinued***

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Hi, ok this is long, complicated and quite hard to explain so thanks in advance to anyone who has the stomach to read the whole ringmarole!

 

In 2006 we (my husband) purchased a car via a dealership,

we had poor credit so the dealership used Welcome car finance as our lender.

 

The salesman (call him 'S') gave us a rundown of the costs for the car which was £4,500ish and with the apr the total bill would come to around £7500. fine we said,

so S told us it would take around a week for all the paperwork etc etc and he would be in touch.

 

Later that week S rang my husband to say that he needed to come into the dealership because there was a problem,

so in we trot..

S told us that Welcome needed to speak to Paul (husband) and he rang them from his desk and handed the phone to Paul,

a man from welcome then told Paul that he could not have the original finance because Paul was a CIS contractor

so effectively he was self employed and the only way they would lend the money was if he took their PPI policy with the loan - no PPI, no car.

 

We desperately needed a car so Paul was then under pressure to say yes so did so and signed the paperwork that S presented to us.

This agreement ended up at a total of £10550!

 

We never missed a payment until an accidental 'boing' at the bank in late 2009 when we genuinely didnt know that we didnt have enough money there,

Paul received a very abrupt phone call on his mobile whilst at work demanding the payment NOW on the Tuesday,

he explained that it was an accident and that he wouldnt have the money to pay them until the Friday and could they please wait until then (3 days time)

 

Welcome's response was basically NO,

pay us now whether you have the money or not!

Paul pointed out thet we had never ever missed a payment

and couldnt give them what he didnt have

and why couldnt they wait until Friday?

 

Welcome again responded with a harsh 'dont care' attitude and began threatening to re-claim the car

(which they couldnt do due to us having already paid more than half)

they threatened CCJ's Baliffs, you name it.

 

This went on all week! Phonecall after phonecall,

at one point a man very agressively told Paul that "You WILL pay the money to me, and we WILL get it from you one way or another"

Paul then became agressive himself (I think understandably) and hung up on them.

 

He then refused to speak to them and as a result of their attitude they were not paid.

 

It went on and on and on... We even tried to give them the car back, they initially said no they werent prepared to do that,

and then sent us a bill for nearly £1000 to take the car away before they had even seen the thing

 

At this point we had £3138 left to pay, meaning we had paid nearly £7500. The credit agreement states 'total payable for goods £7791.52.

 

We realised that we had been mis-sold the PPI when all these adverts and Martin Lewis were on TV talking about it all.

When we tried to claim the PPI was unfair and mis-sold Welcome sent us a form,

told us they had investigated it and that they never sold us the policy and to chase the dealership

(which had gone, completely..no longer there

 

We had the FOS look at it and after about 2 and a half years they said, sorry we cant help because the dealership has gone out of business.)

 

Paul then told them that we would instead like to cancel the PPI and all they did was send us a letter saying that it had been cancelled

and a refund of £64 odd had been deducted from our final total!

 

The total amount for insurances on our credit agreement states £2763!!!

If this is the case then surely a large remainder of what we owe is PPI and interest on PPI?

 

roll on to now,

 

We have tried to sort out a payment agreement with Welcome,

they told Paul that they couldnt even find his accouont with them and they would call him back whrn they located it...they didnt..

 

Deloitte have taken on our PPI claim and are trying to re-claim from the dealership (which we still maintain didnt sell us the PPI)

nobody seems to be listening to us re:welcome sold it to us over the phone

 

as part of our process we had to call welcome to ask for a letter stating that they didnt sell us the PPI.

Miraculously they found the account..and then told Paul over the phone that they werent sure if they could send a letter

because they werent sure who was responsible for the selling of the PPI due to .

..and I quote..'a box not being ticked'

 

They did send us a copy of the letter sent in 2009 saying they had investigated and decided that it was the dealership, which we sent to Deloitte.

 

A letter arrived yesterday from Northampton County Court saying Welcome are taking Paul to court for failure to pay the contractural installments..

.£3999 plus added interest and costs totalling £4333.68

 

I have letters from welcome dated 2010 stating the debt

 

04/02/2010 £3138.96

16/02/2010 £3238.58

Within 12 days it went up by nearly £100 with no explanation!

 

The court papers say as of 02/04/2010 it was £3399.91

 

Where the hell are these figures coming from?! its like they are plucking random figures out of the air!

 

As I previously stated, when Paul rang Welcome to arrange to pay this off he was told that they couldnt find the account,

so where in merry mooblie have they suddenly pulled this lot from?!

 

Even if Deloitte manage to re-claim ppi from the bankrupt dealership it looks like Welcome are going to end up

getting it back plus masses of interest anyway by taking him to court,

 

so how does this work seeing as they say they have nothing to do with the PPI?

This is all becoming too confusing and we are literally at the point of destruction now, just want it all to stop.

 

I'm so sorry this is long but I'm trying to give as much info as possible in the hope of someone knowing what the heck we can do now,

Paul wants to contest as its mostly PPI and PPI interest which we are claiming for anyway..how does this work?

 

Heres hoping that someone can help!

Edited by wasowski

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Hi, I've posted a different thread about this but have started a new one due to things having happened since then.

 

Long and short:

 

Recieved a letter from Northampton County Court stating thet Welcome (Hegarty LLP) are taking husband to court for a car loan we took out in 2006

- have paid cost of goods and intrest on goods (or thereabouts) and because Welcome refused to take responsibilty for mis-sold PPI

which was unwanted he refused to pay any more as this was the cost of PPI + interest on PPI.

 

last payment made was 2009-

 

after ignoring two CPR 31.14 requests and a telephone request for the original CA sent an embarrased defence to court.

 

Court replied saying it had been sent to Welcome and Lo and behold..they finally sent some things in the post, but not exactly what I asked for.

 

The CCA is blurry, the PPI box IS ticked (they said it isnt),

The agreement number has been crossed out and a totally different one has been written in,

the date of signature has been amended without any initialling and also the signature is NOT my husbands.

 

I can even prove this as I have a tenancy agreement signed by him 2 months previously,

loads of other things showing his signature which has been the same since the year dot and also,

he was working away on the date of this signature so couldnt have been there to sign it!!

 

I am wondering if this CCA is even enforceable due to all these discrepancies? ESPECIALLY the signature issue, it is definately not my husbands!

 

I have various bits of paper from Welcome, including a default notice dated 6th Nov 2009

followed by three letters stating that the account is in ARREARS in feb 2010.

 

I have lost quite a bit of the paperwork over the years but even working with what I've got Im finding it hard to follow their logic on that timeline of events!

 

Anyone have any expertise on this?

 

I would really appreciate the help as now we want it to go to court so we can nail Welcome to the wall,

they really have been utter bar-stewards over the years with their harrassment and vile attitude.

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oooh!

 

another phantom agreement signed by welcome staff

 

postggj will oves this one

 

and PPI too!!

 

dump the CMC now by the way.

they wont help you.

 

dx


..

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just got online, ditched windows eight, now back on windows 7

 

i need to see the agreement first

 

Google Photobucket, scan into your PC and upload

 

Remove personal details but leave in the figures

 

I need to some clarification please

 

1/ date on claim form

2/ date you acknowledged claim,

3/ date CPR 31.14 was sent to Hagarty, was it recorded delivery

4/ have you requested an extension as to CPR 15.5

 

I also need you to type out the particulars of claim

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set your default scan page size to A4 less than 300DPI [150 will do]

scan the required letters/agreements/sheets - as a picture[jpg] file

don't forget you can use a mobile phone or a digital camera too!!

'

BUT......

ENSURE: remove all pers info inc. barcodes etc using paint program

but leave all monetary figures and dates.

*********************************************************

{DO NOT USE A BIRO OR PEN OR USE SEE THRU TAPE OR LABELS]

try www.pdfescape.com TO BLANK STUFF,

*************************************************************

or

DO IT IN MSPAINT.EXE or any photo editing program

goto one of the many free online pdf converter websites ...

http://freejpgtopdf.com/

..

if you have multiple scans/pics

put them in a word doc FIRST and convert that to PDF

or use www.pdfmerge.com

 

convert existing PC files to PDF [office has an installable print to PDF option]

..

 

it would be better to upload a multipage pdf if

you have many images too rather than many single pdfs

.

or if you have PDF as an installed printer drive use that

or use word and save as pdf

try and logically name your file so people know what it is.

though dont use full bank names or CAG in the title

i'e Default notice dd-mm-yyyy TSB

.

open a new msg box here

hit go advanced below the msg box

hit manage attachments below that box

hit the add files button on the top right

hit select files, navigate to your file on your pc

hit upload files

.

dx


..

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Ok, this is EVERYTHING we have including the court papers. The beginning of the docs up to the court papers is what Welcome sent in response to the CPR request, after that is what I have manage to keep hold of over the years.

 

I really appreciate the help guys!

 

attachment reduced in size and several bit of pers info removed - dx

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for postggj:

 

1/ date on claim form - 18th May 2013

2/ date you acknowledged claim - posted it 23rd may, recieved 24th May

3/ date CPR 31.14 was sent to Hagarty, was it recorded delivery - sent 2, bpoth directly yo Welcome. one on 23rd May (not recorded) ignored so sent second on 3rd June recorded del, recieved reply 22/06/13

4/ have you requested an extension as to CPR 15.5 - no

 

I also need you to type out the particulars of claim

The claimant claims for sums due under a/various credit agreement(s) regulated under the consumer credit act 1974 entered into between the claimant and the defendant.

The defendant failed to pay the contractual instalments in compliance with the terms of thre agreement(s). The claimant complied with section iii and vi and annex B of the PD pre action conduct.

And the claimant claims:

Hire purchase account number xxxxxxxxx

balance of 3,399.91 as of 2/4/10 interest under s69 of the county court act 1984 at the rate of 8% per year from 2/4/10 to 15/5/13 of 848.77 and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgement or earlier payment at a daily rate of 0.75 AND costs.

 

Woo, that was long winded!

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lots 'fees' there to reclaim and PPI/spoof 'gap' ins

 

I expect that will wipe the debt if needs be

 

dx


..

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dx100uk

 

This claim is history on the documents provided, their is no problem getting this claim thrown out. It is stopping them withdrawing and correcting the fault, and then issuing a new claim. If that happens we can then do a relevant defence as to the particulars

 

Wasowski

 

What defence did you submit???

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Hi, I sent the embarrased defence as follows, which I amended for our case from another letter I found on this site:

 

 

 

The Defendant neither deny nor admit to any indebtedness to the claimant.

 

The Defendant sent the claimant two CPR31.14 requests ( the first by unregistered post on 22/05/2013 and the second by Royal mail signed for 1st class on 03/06/2013 due to no reply being received) for the original signed agreement and default notice relied upon in the Particulars of the Claim.

 

The claimant received the CPR31.14 request on the 04/06/2013 by Royal Mail Signed For services.

 

As of the 12/06/2013 the claimant has not supplied the requested documents despite two CPR requests, the claimant has given no good reason or any reason at all to the defendant for this failure to comply with the defendant's legal rights of entitlement to inspect the documents that the claimant's claim is to rely on.

 

The Defendant asserts that the Pre - Action conduct of the claimant is unacceptable and feels as though the claimant is trying to frustrate proceedings with this Non-Compliance attitude towards Practice Direction.

 

The Defendant has not been provided with copies of the documents mentioned in the Particulars of Claim, which were requested in the CPR31.14, including the Notice of Assignment, which would prove the Claimant's right to bring this action.

 

The conduct of the claimant is denying the Defendant the right to submit a full defence and as the action stands at the present time, the Defendant is somewhat confused and unsure as to exactly what the claimant's claim is for, the Defendant is unable to file a full defence as a direct result of the claimants negative Pre - Action Conduct.

 

The Defendant respectfully requests that the Court stay (Suspend) the proceedings under Practice Direction 4.6 (1) until the claimant complies with the defendants CPR31.14 request. The defendant respectfully requests that the court impose a time scale of seven (7) days upon the claimant to comply with the defendant's rightful entitlement to inspect the documents that the claimant's claim is to rely on, and that should the claimant fail to comply with the court's order, then the defendant respectfully requests that upon notification by the defendant to the court of the claimant's further failure to comply with the Practice Direction sanctions imposed by the court, that the court makes the motion to strike out the claimant's claim on the grounds that the claimant is unable to substantiate the claim.

 

The Defendant also makes a respectful request to the court for the court's consideration, to permit the defendant to submit an amended defence if the claimant supplies the requested documents mentioned, furthermore, the defendant states to the court, that if the claimant does so indeed disclose the requested documents within the time limit of the further seven (7) days to the defendant, then the defendant requests that the court provide the defendant with directions that inform the defendant of the time scale that the court shall allow the defendant to file/submit the full or amended defence to this action.

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BUT.... even if they do withdraw and submit a new claim,

they still dont have my husbands ACTUAL signature,

the one I have blanked out on the docs does not even resemble his signature

and he wasnt even in the area on that date to sign the documents,

 

the car was bought in Plymouth Devon,

and he was working in Bracknell near London,

that date on the documents was a Friday.

 

Even if he had finished work early that day

his journey home used to take 5+ hrs

so he would never have got to the dealership before it closed.

I just cant believe how they can get away with signing it for him the cheeky heffers!

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Easy, do not jump the gun, lets get this one thrown out first shall we. We will use the directions questionnaire to attain that

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Ok, Whats the directions questionnaire and how do I do that? lol!

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Well it is now down to see if hagarty wishes to continue, if they do they will have to pay a fee.

 

The court will send out a Directions Questionnaire, its a sort of case management, we will apply to have it thrown out then by a directions application then

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ok! will wait to see what happens then. Am just chomping at the bit to get Welcome to eat their so called 'agreement' now lol!

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You will have that chance

 

You just concentrate on pulling welcomes strings when the time comes

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OK! today the Directions Questionnaire arrived, its a tad confusing! I initially read it incorrectly as that we had submitted a counter claim, which we hadn't. Can someone tell me what on earth we do with this?

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Does it look like this? http://mglegalsolutions.co.uk/sites/default/files/court/N180.pdf

 

If so:

 

A1 - Yes

B - self-explanatory

C1 - Yes (assuming it is a small claims DQ)

D1 - Enter your closest county court

D2 - No

D3 - One (your husband may need to give evidence)

E1 - No (assuming you are making no counterclaim)

 

Does this help?


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okydoky,

 

so just fill it in and wait then?

 

Just a tad confused about our defence as it was an embarrassed defence we sent because they had not provided any documents to us as requested.

 

now they have provided us with (some ) documents but this means our defence is now different due to the discrepancies in the paperwork.

 

Does this matter at this stage or do we need to send a new defence with the form?

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You need Welcome's permission or the court's permission to amend your Defence.

 

Perhaps it is best to just file the Directions Questionnaire, and file a witness statement pointing out the discrepancies later. You will need to file any documents you want to rely on at the hearing a certain period of time before the hearing.


PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

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Ok, so question A1 is regarding the mediation service, but we don't want that do we? There is no way that we can settle this out of court without Welcome wanting more money from us and we are not willing to give them any more especially as the agreement they sent us is so dodgy!

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Im about to go and post this now, I just wanted to check if anyone was about? I have ticked the 'no' box for mediation as I don't think it will be any good is this ok?

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In an ideal world you would tick "yes" to show you are being reasonable when the court looks at the issue of costs. But costs in small claims track are generally fixed anyway ... ticking no is fine wasowski.


PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

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Hi,

 

just checking in to tempt fate and say that we have had nothing from anyone since I sent all that back, and

 

also a question...

 

On checking the credit files

 

we have realised that Welcome have been marking the file as 6 payments late, for YEARS, no default.

 

The amount has jumped up on the file since all this court paperwork started to turn up but still as 6 payments late.

Surely they cant keep doing this forever?

 

It seems that they are intentionally trying to keep their account on the file rather than default.

 

This also must mean that the account is still active and the agreement has not ended.

 

Does anyone know what this all means?

Is this bad?

Obviously its bad in respect to it will never ever 'drop off' the file at this rate, but is it relevant in any way?

 

Are they obligated to default after a certain period?

 

Sorry if that sounded confused..

 

.but I am!

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please try and add blank lines to your posts....

 

yes undr ICO rules they should have issued a default notice after the third missed payment.

 

dx


..

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