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    • Post in Suing a parcel delivery company when you don't have a direct contract with them – third-party rights Copy of judgment available

      BankFodder posted a post in a topic,

      We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

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      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Parcel delivery insurance is prohibited under section 57 – Consumer Rights Act – Read about It Here and in The Times.

Motormile recording PDL defaults as MAIL ORDER accounts

drob

By drob
in Motormile Finance UK Ltd/Lantern

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renegadeimp

renegadeimp

Posted
Posted

If i were in your shoes, i would ignore them completely. Do they have any addresses for you in the UK, or have they been communicating solely by email?

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

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UAEexpat

UAEexpat

Posted
Posted

as far as im aware, no post. or if there was my parents will have returned it back to them. I just got another email, subject County Court Action and message saying you have chosen not to contact MMF your account is being assesed for legal action.

 

Not sure what to do now, really dont want the CCJ. I still think im on the electoral role though, even though i live abroad as ive only been away a year or so. And a year before that, but was on no visa's as i was living in egypt.

 

Shall i email them a copy of my visa here? stating im a resident of UAE? although as its a new company ive just joined its only dated back to last monh.

 

Really starting to worry now, these guys are animals :(

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renegadeimp

renegadeimp

Posted
Posted

Could send them a letter stating that you live abroad. This would pretty much screw them out of getting a ccj

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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UAEexpat

UAEexpat

Posted
Posted

How is this?

 

Dear Motor Mile Finance,

 

This is an old account, of which I have only just opened. I have received no formal letters to my previous address whilst in UK, and nothing on my old phone line.

 

I am very surprised to have seen all of your messages.

 

Please be aware, I am not longer a British resident, and I have been living abroad for the last 2 years.

 

I am now a resident of United Arab Emirates - Dubai.

 

Any outstanding payment I may have unforeseen whilst away, I will settle direct with the company.

 

If you need copies of my UAE Residency/work contracts/apartment contract please let me know.

 

Warm regards,

 

Gina.

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sillygirl1

sillygirl1

Posted
Posted

Don't tell them where you are now resident as that may cause a lot of problems for you, debt is a criminal offence in the UAE (as far as I know - could be wrong here).

 

You should NOT offer them proof of where you are resident, they should offer you proof of where the debt originates from and positive proof that it was paid into a bank account which belonged to you.

 

BrigaderJCS is the person to write a letter or email for you - I would hold on until he chips in otherwise there could be an unwanted knock on effect.

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UAEexpat

UAEexpat

Posted
Posted

Oh crap i already replied.Yes debt is criminal in UAE but only for UAE debts. They may not even read it. apparantly they dont as it was sent from the main email address.

 

Dear Motor Mile Finance,

 

This is an old account, of which I have only just opened. I have received no formal letters to my previous UK address, and nothing on my old phone line.

 

I am very surprised to have seen all of your messages.

 

Please be aware, I am not longer a British resident, and I have been living abroad for the last 2 years.

 

I am now a resident of United Arab Emirates - Dubai, previously a resident of Egypt.

 

Any outstanding payment I may have unforeseen whilst away, I will settle direct with the company.

 

If you need copies of my UAE Residency/work contracts/apartment contract please let me know.

 

Warm regards,

 

Gina.

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drob

drob

Posted
  • Author
Posted

According to http://www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/ MMF's address might be a Mail Forwarding Service as 523 other companies share the same address.

 

I wonder if this is the reason that MMF take so long to reply to letters that are sent to them or do MMF operate a Mail Forwarding Service as a side line?

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citizenB

citizenB

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It is my understanding that Companies House require them to have their Registered/Head office address on their letter headings and Website.

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PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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UAEexpat

UAEexpat

Posted
Posted

THESE GUYS ARE IDIOTS! Even though i replied (shown above), they sent me this email - can someone please please draft me an email i can send back, with a direct email address, stating that i did reply and im no longer living in the UK etc. Please.

 

Despite attempting to contact you on numerous occasions we have, as yet, not received a response and are now reviewing this case for further action.

 

We are considering whether to sanction a visit by one of our Field Agents to your property, with a view to discussing this matter in person and reaching an mutually beneficial repayment arrangement.

 

Alternatively we may decide to pass this account to our in-house solicitor with a view to issuing a claim against you in your local court.

 

We must advise you that should any legal claim prove successful the balance of the debt will be increased to include any legal fees and court cost we incur and that your name will be entered in the Register of Judgements, Orders and Fines.

 

We would also look to enforce any successful judgement granted, by way of an Attachment of Earnings (AOE) order (wh ere applicable). This may result in your employer being contacted by your local County Court.

 

This email should be taken as formal notice that we have attempted to agree a mutually acceptable appointment and have been unable to do so through your lack of response. This fact will be later relied upon at court on the question of legal costs, should legal action prove necessary.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

MotorMile Finance UK Ltd.

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renegadeimp

renegadeimp

Posted
Posted

Just tell them to bugger off as they are clearly inept and cannot understand english. Theres nothing they can do to you.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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renegadeimp

renegadeimp

Posted
Posted
This email should be taken as formal notice that we have attempted to agree a mutually acceptable appointment and have been unable to do so through your lack of response. This fact will be later relied upon at court on the question of legal costs, should legal action prove necessary.

 

That is funny as all hell. They just havent got a clue.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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UAEexpat

UAEexpat

Posted
Posted

okay how is this for a response -

 

Dear MotorMile,

 

Please be aware i did in fact contact you on the 15th August.

 

All corrospondance has been kept on my side and is now with the OFT.

 

As I explained to you previously, I am not a UK resident. I have been living abroad now for 2 years. And any forgotten payments in this time, I am settling DIRECT.

 

You have no right to "turn up on my doorstep" without an appointment being booked with myself. So by "considering" this you are wasting your time.

 

A CCJ will not be issued, as I explained, I am no longer a UK resident.

 

Any address you have for me is old, as like i said, I am no longer a UK resident.

 

I have recieved no phone calls, or post. Therefore office notice has not been given, as an email is official.

 

Before you send any more mails, please check first that your client has actually replied or not. This is a huge waste of time on your side, and totally against OFT standards.

 

Like I said, within the week the debt will be settled DIRECT, so i hope not to see any more emails from you.

 

Warm Regards,

 

Gina

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renegadeimp

renegadeimp

Posted
Posted

To be completely honest, i would stop playing letter tennis and issue a simple formal complaint to Robert Sands who is their complaince officer. Then simply ignore them.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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renegadeimp

renegadeimp

Posted
Posted

Send it by recorded delivery. Not email. MMF completely ignore pretty much all emails.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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  • 1 year later...
drob

drob

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Motormile - Pounds til Payday - Doorstep Collection

 

Motormile have purchased an alleged debt from Pounds til Payday. The alleged debt was from 2009 and I have genuinely no recollection of the alleged debt. I wrote to MMF and asked for proof of my liability to the alleged debt and request that they do not send a doorstep collector to my home address.

 

 

I have today received a response from MMF ....

 

Dear drob

 

a) Please find enclosed a copy of the loan agreement with Pounds til Payday (NO agreement was enclosed)

 

b) In your relation to your revocation of the doorstep licence regarding our intention to send an agent to your home to discuss the debt.

 

YOU are not correct in your assertion that , under FCA rules (or OFT rules - be advised they are no longer our regulator), we can only call at your home if you agree to make an appointment. The debt is NOT reasonably disputed or deadlocked and WE are giving you reasonable notice of the timing of the visit.

 

When you took out this loan, you impliedly agreed that the creditor could communicate with you to discuss payment. You do not have the contractual right to revoke that agreement until the loan has been replied. Yet you have frustrated our attempts to discuss the matter either by letter or telephone.

 

Regards

MMF

 

Can anyone offer any advice as to a response to MMF?

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Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted

afaik, there would be no contractual licence (even implied), that circumvents the law of trespass? and, in any event, any such a contractual licence wld ordinarily need to be express. and for eg be re the recovery of specific goods supplied re a commercial contract.

yes, they can communicate with you, in writing. :)

see what others say though.

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renegadeimp

renegadeimp

Posted
Posted

Ignore it and report it so the FCA can add it to their ever growing evidence list.

 

It is a standard letter from MMF that breaches their credit licence. The FCA are well aware of it.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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drob

drob

Posted
  • Author
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Pounds Till Payday have never recorded a default regarding the alleged account, however I have checked my credit file this morning and MMF have added a default dated May 2009.

 

MMF claim that they have purchased the alleged account, however I have never received anything from Pounds till Payday regarding the notice of assignment.

 

MMF have stated "When you took out this loan, you impliedly agreed that the creditor could communicate with you to discuss payment. You do not have the contractual right to revoke that agreement until the loan has been replied" If I had taken out any loan with Pounds till Payday then any agreement would have been between myself and them. If a default had been issued by Pounds till Payday then wouldn't the agreement had been terminated and that NO contract between myself and MMF would exist?

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renegadeimp

renegadeimp

Posted
Posted

If MMF bought the debt then they purchased all rights and obligations to that account. Please don't get drawn into any freeman arguments regarding sales of accounts/contracts etc.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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drob

drob

Posted
  • Author
Posted
If MMF bought the debt then they purchased all rights and obligations to that account. Please don't get drawn into any freeman arguments regarding sales of accounts/contracts etc.

 

Maybe I am jumping too far ahead, MMF stll haven'r proved the alleged account belongs to me

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