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    • I came across this discussion recently and just wanted to give my experience of A Shade Greener that may help others regarding their boiler finance agreement.
       
      We had a 10yr  finance contract for a boiler fitted July 2015.
       
      After a summer of discontent with ASG I discovered that if you have paid HALF the agreement or more you can legally return the boiler to them at no cost to yourself. I've just returned mine the feeling is liberating.
       
      It all started mid summer during lockdown when they refused to service our boiler because we didn't have a loft ladder or flooring installed despite the fact AS installed the boiler. and had previosuly serviced it without issue for 4yrs. After consulting with an independent installer I was informed that if this was the case then ASG had breached building regulations,  this was duly reported to Gas Safe to investigate and even then ASG refused to accept blame and repeatedly said it was my problem. Anyway Gas Safe found them in breach of building regs and a compromise was reached.
       
      A month later and ASG attended to service our boiler but in the process left the boiler unusuable as it kept losing pressure not to mention they had damaged the filling loop in the process which they said was my responsibilty not theres and would charge me to repair, so generous of them! Soon after reporting the fault I got a letter stating it was time we arranged a powerflush on our heating system which they make you do after 5 years even though there's nothing in the contract that states this. Coincidence?
       
      After a few heated exchanges with ASG (pardon the pun) I decided to pull the plug and cancel our agreement.
       
      The boiler was removed and replaced by a reputable installer,  and the old boiler was returned to ASG thus ending our contract with them. What's mad is I saved in excess of £1000 in the long run and got a new boiler with a brand new 12yr warranty. 
       
      You only have to look at TrustPilot to get an idea of what this company is like.
       
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    • Dazza a few months ago I discovered a good friend of mine who had ten debts with cards and catalogues which he was slavishly paying off at detriment to his own family quality of life, and I mean hardship, not just absence of second holidays or flat screen TV's.
       
      I wrote to all his creditors asking for supporting documents and not one could provide any material that would allow them to enforce the debt.
       
      As a result he stopped paying and they have been unable to do anything, one even admitted it was unenforceable.
       
      If circumstances have got to the point where you are finding it unmanageable you must ask yourself why you feel the need to pay.  I guarantee you that these companies have built bad debt into their business model and no one over there is losing any sleep over your debt to them!  They will see you as a victim and cash cow and they will be reluctant to discuss final offers, only ways to keep you paying with threats of court action or seizing your assets if you have any.
       
      They are not your friends and you owe them no loyalty or moral duty, that must remain only for yourself and your family.
       
      If it was me I would send them all a CCA request.   I would bet that not one will provide the correct response and you can quite legally stop paying them until such time as they do provide a response.   Even when they do you should check back here as they mostly send dodgy photo copies or generic rubbish that has no connection with your supposed debt.
       
      The money you are paying them should, as far as you are able, be put to a savings account for yourself and as a means of paying of one of these fleecers should they ever manage to get to to the point of a successful court judgement.  After six years they will not be able to start court action and that money will then become yours.
       
      They will of course pursue you for the funds and pass your file around various departments of their business and out to third parties.
       
      Your response is that you should treat it as a hobby.  I have numerous files of correspondence each faithfully organised showing the various letters from different DCA;s , solicitors etc with a mix of threats, inducements and offers.   It is like my stamp collection and I show it to anyone who is interested!
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worried about ticket from civil enforcement ltd***Cancelled***


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Hi all,

 

thank you for reading this.

 

I parked at my local sports centre where you have to enter your car reg into a computer to get 3 hours free parking. I am pretty sure I did this but not absolutely certain.

 

Today I got a fine from Civil Enforcement Ltd for £150 (£75 if I pay within 14 days). Trouble is I was using my dads car, so he got the fine.

 

I have read the sticky thread about these types of fines, but I wanted to check that they are still unenforceable as it was posted over a year ago.

 

I am more worried because this fine was sent to my dad and I don't want him to end up with a £150 fine or a trip to the court etc!

 

Any advice appreciated :-)

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Its not a fine. Ignore it or mouse over the word ignore and follow the info in the popup

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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Hi Ren,

 

thank you for your reply. I will write to the sports centre. They must take some kind of responsibility as the machines you have to enter your car reg in is inside their building.

 

I do wonder if anyone has ever paid the fine and then taken Civil Enforcement to court for a refund? They do not offer any kind of dispute in their demand for payment.

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People pay it because they think these companies are legit. If you pay them, you are pretty much gifting them money.

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Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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Tell your Dad to write to the company once and tell them you were the driver of the car, that way you can ignore their begging letters and your Dad won't be on your back.

 

Them being told you were the driver does not enable them to charge you anything either, you stayed in a free car park so what was their loss?

 

As they are only allowed to claim losses and only then if they are the landowner, any percentage of free of charge is still zero.

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Tell your Dad to write to the company once and tell them you were the driver of the car, that way you can ignore their begging letters and your Dad won't be on your back.

 

Them being told you were the driver does not enable them to charge you anything either, you stayed in a free car park so what was their loss?

 

As they are only allowed to claim losses and only then if they are the landowner, any percentage of free of charge is still zero.

 

:thumb:

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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Thank you Homer. I was thinking about telling them it was me driving but I didn't want to give them ammunition!

 

I am quite lucky as my dad is cool with it. I explained it all to him and he is happy to follow the advice that I have gotten on here.

 

Thanks.

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If you need any more help or reassurance, dont hesitate to come back and ask. Keep us updated with any letters they send too.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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I've dropped you a PM

 

What was the date of the alleged contravention?

What was the date on the CEL Notice?

 

(as an aside, I would suggest that the driver should only be named as an absolute last resort because you are surrendering all of the PoFA safeguards)

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If its on private property then there is no requirement to do anything

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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If its on private property then there is no requirement to do anything

 

Correct

 

However, the 'ignore' advice is now some nine months out of date and most people have cottoned on to the fact that it is a fool who simply 'ignores' nowadays

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Which is why we advise writing to the organ grinder and not the monkey. Even if they took it to court they would have to prove THEY suffered a loss. Something they will be unable to do.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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Which is why we advise writing to the organ grinder and not the monkey. Even if they took it to court they would have to prove THEY suffered a loss. Something they will be unable to do.

 

or a contractual sum perhaps?

 

look at the BPA CoP

 

19.5 damages for breach of contract

19.6 a contractual sum

 

put a defence together simply arguing against the level of damages and you ambushed and shafted by the contractual sum.

 

No more discussion on these side issues now. I'm purely interested in this particular CEL case

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Hi,

 

the date I parked in the car park was 29th May and the ticket was sent on 14th June.

 

I have written to CEL on behalf of my dad saying I was not the driver and admit no liability. I wrote to the sports centre using the advice ren gave me about ignoring the ticket.

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Hi,

 

the date I parked in the car park was 29th May and the ticket was sent on 14th June.

 

I have written to CEL on behalf of my dad saying I was not the driver and admit no liability. I wrote to the sports centre using the advice ren gave me about ignoring the ticket.

 

They have failed to serve the Notice within the statutory 14 days under PoFA and cannot therefore hold the RK liable. I've dropped you a PM

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Unless you respond to my PM this matter will escalate and you or your father will end up getting stamped court papers from CEL at which point I cannot help you.

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Hi Snugs and Nev,

 

If there is advice to be given, it should be done on the open forum so all users can benefit from it.

 

Thanks :-)

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Dear Sir/Madam

 

The unlawful issue of a ‘Notice to Keeper’ (BPA AOS Code of Practice B.22)

 

I am the registered keeper of a xxxxxxxxxx motor vehicle registration number xxxxxxxxxxx

 

I refer to your ‘Parking Charge Notice’ ref: dated xxxxxxxxxx

 

I would wish to draw your attention to the following statement contained within your ‘Parking Charge Notice’:-

 

“In England and Wales if after 28 days from the issue date this PCN has not been paid or you have not provided us with the name and current address for service of the driver we may have the right to recover from the Registered Keeper all unpaid amounts due..............”

 

This statement makes it clear that CEL is dealing with its claim in accordance with the requirements of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (POFA). The document that you have (incorrectly) titled as a ‘Parking Charge Notice’ is prescribed under PoFA as a ‘Notice to Keeper’

 

The requirements of Schedule 4 PoFA are quite clear in that there must be strict compliance with all of its requirements in order to take advantage of the rights granted under that Act to pursue the registered keeper in respect of a driver’s alleged debt.

 

The BPA Ltd AOS Code of Practice supports the need for strict compliance (para 21.5 refers).

 

CEL has however failed to comply with the statutory requirements as follows;

 

Firstly, in regards to paragraph 9(2)(h) of Schedule 4, PoFA 2012. Whilst your ‘Notice to Keeper’ has indicated that you require a payment to be made to CEL, there is no specific identification of the “Creditor”, who may, in law, be CEL or some other party. PoFA requires a ‘Notice to Keeper’ to have words to the effect that “The Creditor is….”

 

The wording of Paragraph 9(2)(h) of Schedule 4 of PoFA does not indicate that the “creditor must be named, but “identified”. To “identify” a “Creditor” a parking company must do more than name that person. The driver is entitled to know the identity of the party with whom he has legally contracted.

 

This view is supported by the Secretary of State for Transport. He has reserved to himself powers to make regulations to specify not only what must be said in a ‘Notice to Keeper’ but also what evidence should be provided. He says “The purpose of this power is to leave flexibility to mandate the specific evidence which must accompany a notice to keeper if it becomes clear that creditors are attempting to recover parking charges without providing keepers with sufficient evidence to know whether the claim is valid”

 

Secondly, in addition to CEL’s failure to specifically identify the “Creditor”, it has failed to provide any evidence that it, or a third party, is entitled to enforce an alleged breach of contractual terms and conditions.

 

Thirdly, and this is the most serious failure and that which has given me cause to submit a formal complaint to the DVLA is as follows;

 

You have failed to comply with paragraph 9.4 of Schedule 4 of the Act in that you failed to give the Notice to Keeper to me within the “relevant period”. The alleged infringement occurred on the xxth xxxxx 2013 and no ‘Notice to Driver’ was issued at the time. The Notice to Keeper is dated xxth xxxxxx 2013 which is xx days after the event and too late to ensure delivery within the statutory 14 days prescribed by PoFA.

 

Paragraph 9(4) indicates that the Notice to Keeper must be given to the registered keeper not more than 14 days after the car allegedly infringed the car park terms and conditions. Paragraph 9(6) states that “A notice sent by post is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to have been delivered (and so “given” for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4)) on the second working day after the day on which it is posted”

 

Your company would have been well aware of these facts when it took the decision to send out the Notice to Keeper. You have misrepresented the legal position in the full knowledge that no such keeper liability existed.

 

That is an aggravating feature which the DVLA must take into account in determining what sanction to issue to your company.

 

I therefore expect you to immediately cancel the ‘parking charge’ and inform me, in writing that you have done.

 

If however, you reject this challenge, then, in accordance with the BPA Ltd AOS Code of Practice 22.12, please ensure that you enclose all the required information (including the necessary ‘POPLA code’) so that I may immediately refer this matter (and any further issues that I may subsequently raise) for their adjudication on the matter.

 

I do not expect to receive a ‘generic’ template response and which fails to address the specific issues that I have raised with you. No further correspondence will be entered into.

 

Yours sincerely

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Hi all,

 

thanks for all of the advice. I have not had chance to get on here for a couple of days, please don't think I have been ignoring you.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]44980[/ATTACH]

 

This is the ticket we received. I hope it has come out clear enough.

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Can you convert it to a PDF and edit the info out using mspaint?

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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Hi Snugs,

 

The ticket can be better displayed using the guide at post ~82 here - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?345798-Roxburghe-HFO-old-barclaycard-debt&p=4174953&viewfull=1#post4174953

 

It's too small to see properly at the moment.

 

:-)

We could do with some help from you

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                                            Have we helped you ...?  Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Please give something if you can. We all give our time free of charge but the site has bills to pay.

 

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Hi all,

 

thanks again for all the advice.

 

What Nev Met says about reporting it to DVLA makes a lot of sense. Perhaps if we complain more about companies like Civil Enforcement they may eventually be banned. They are practically stealing peoples money.

 

I will keep everyone posted on the outcome of this :-)

 

thanks

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Dear Sir/Madam

 

The unlawful issue of a ‘Notice to Keeper’ (BPA AOS Code of Practice B.22)

 

I am the registered keeper of a xxxxxxxxxx motor vehicle registration number xxxxxxxxxxx

 

I refer to your ‘Parking Charge Notice’ ref: dated xxxxxxxxxx

 

I would wish to draw your attention to the following statement contained within your ‘Parking Charge Notice’:-

 

“In England and Wales if after 28 days from the issue date this PCN has not been paid or you have not provided us with the name and current address for service of the driver we may have the right to recover from the Registered Keeper all unpaid amounts due..............”

 

This statement makes it clear that CEL is dealing with its claim in accordance with the requirements of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (POFA). The document that you have (incorrectly) titled as a ‘Parking Charge Notice’ is prescribed under PoFA as a ‘Notice to Keeper’

 

The requirements of Schedule 4 PoFA are quite clear in that there must be strict compliance with all of its requirements in order to take advantage of the rights granted under that Act to pursue the registered keeper in respect of a driver’s alleged debt.

 

The BPA Ltd AOS Code of Practice supports the need for strict compliance (para 21.5 refers).

 

CEL has however failed to comply with the statutory requirements as follows;

 

Firstly, in regards to paragraph 9(2)(h) of Schedule 4, PoFA 2012. Whilst your ‘Notice to Keeper’ has indicated that you require a payment to be made to CEL, there is no specific identification of the “Creditor”, who may, in law, be CEL or some other party. PoFA requires a ‘Notice to Keeper’ to have words to the effect that “The Creditor is….”

 

The wording of Paragraph 9(2)(h) of Schedule 4 of PoFA does not indicate that the “creditor must be named, but “identified”. To “identify” a “Creditor” a parking company must do more than name that person. The driver is entitled to know the identity of the party with whom he has legally contracted.

 

This view is supported by the Secretary of State for Transport. He has reserved to himself powers to make regulations to specify not only what must be said in a ‘Notice to Keeper’ but also what evidence should be provided. He says “The purpose of this power is to leave flexibility to mandate the specific evidence which must accompany a notice to keeper if it becomes clear that creditors are attempting to recover parking charges without providing keepers with sufficient evidence to know whether the claim is valid”

 

Secondly, in addition to CEL’s failure to specifically identify the “Creditor”, it has failed to provide any evidence that it, or a third party, is entitled to enforce an alleged breach of contractual terms and conditions.

 

Thirdly, and this is the most serious failure and that which has given me cause to submit a formal complaint to the DVLA is as follows;

 

You have failed to comply with paragraph 9.4 of Schedule 4 of the Act in that you failed to give the Notice to Keeper to me within the “relevant period”. The alleged infringement occurred on the xxth xxxxx 2013 and no ‘Notice to Driver’ was issued at the time. The Notice to Keeper is dated xxth xxxxxx 2013 which is xx days after the event and too late to ensure delivery within the statutory 14 days prescribed by PoFA.

 

Paragraph 9(4) indicates that the Notice to Keeper must be given to the registered keeper not more than 14 days after the car allegedly infringed the car park terms and conditions. Paragraph 9(6) states that “A notice sent by post is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to have been delivered (and so “given” for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4)) on the second working day after the day on which it is posted”

 

Your company would have been well aware of these facts when it took the decision to send out the Notice to Keeper. You have misrepresented the legal position in the full knowledge that no such keeper liability existed.

 

That is an aggravating feature which the DVLA must take into account in determining what sanction to issue to your company.

 

I therefore expect you to immediately cancel the ‘parking charge’ and inform me, in writing that you have done.

 

If however, you reject this challenge, then, in accordance with the BPA Ltd AOS Code of Practice 22.12, please ensure that you enclose all the required information (including the necessary ‘POPLA code’) so that I may immediately refer this matter (and any further issues that I may subsequently raise) for their adjudication on the matter.

 

I do not expect to receive a ‘generic’ template response and which fails to address the specific issues that I have raised with you. No further correspondence will be entered into.

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

Nev, do you think it is worthwhile mentioning and I quote "If however, you reject this challenge, then, in accordance with the BPA Ltd AOS Code of Practice 22.12, please ensure that you enclose all the required information (including the necessary ‘POPLA code’) so that I may immediately refer this matter (and any further issues that I may subsequently raise) for their adjudication on the matter" in the letter to the PPC?

 

I dont mention it in my appeals as by the BPA CoP they are required to provide it automatically are they not? the rk does not need to actually request the code is supplied. then when they fail to supply it, they haven't followed the CoP so no POPLA appeal can be made and that should be the end of the story. of course only if the driver/rk are not afraid of the following court threat letters which the PPC would have no chance of winning as they did not follow the CoP.

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it matter not what appeals/letters you write or do or don't

 

if it goes to court they will actually have little bearing.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

 

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

 

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

 

 

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