Recieved Notice of Civil Claim After getting Dismissed from Employment? Advice Needed!

[chaostrain]

Hello. I am pretty new here but I am looking for some advice. I have been browsing the forums and a lot of users on here seem to know the way the system works. So I was hoping someone could give me some advice.

 

I was recently dismissed from my employment at a games retailer. The reason was for breakdown of trust and failure to comply with the staff handbook.

 

To put the long story short. Where I used to work we were given hundred of promotional items and in our store it become common practice for some people to give away these items or sell them onto others. I am very aware this is personal gain from the goods and is against the rules. That is to why when the investigation came up I accepted all responsibility. Although the items are tiny and have no physical worth or value on their stockfile. They basically didnt like the fact I was earning something from giving away these codes and goodies.

 

Like I said I accept responsibility for my actions and I shouldnt have however with all of the members of staff doing it I figured why not. I didnt name bomb anyone and I walked away with grace. They asked me what I had given away and sold and they came to a rough sum of £520 of personal gain in the 2 years I had been there (like I said I was honest and told them everything). After the investigation they offered me dismissal and then said they may send a Civil notice to reclaim money spent on hours investigating the case. That seemed fair.

 

However through the door today I have been given a Civil Claim by Civil recovery Solutions asking for a total claim value of £1017.18 however I can settle early and pay £813.74.

 

I did no way agree to pay an amount of that high value. Especially when the items which were given to me had zero stock value. (The items were given to us through our manager this is not a question of theft.)

 

Police were not called in and I have had no confrontation with the police at all regarding the matter. I was expecting to pay for the hours which the investigation took place (no more than £150) But I assume they have wacked on the £520, and some crazy administration fee.

 

They have asked if I deny Liability to get in contact within 14 days. I am aware that I could ignore the letter, or reply or maybe offer some kind of counter claim. But I am very lost with this and I am a little worried. I feel like they are treating me like a criminal. I can see what I did was wrong but with other staff influencing me that it was okay and it was a common thing I didnt think it would get this out of hand.

 

Since my departure from the company 3 weeks ago I have found a new job although. I would really not like to pay a massive £1k charge for a bunch of stuff which was GIVEN to the staff.

 

Any advice would be really appreciated. Thank you so much for taking the time to read this.

 

Kind Regards

[honeybee13]

Hello and welcome to CAG. I hope the forum guys will be along later.

 

I'm not going to say ignore the letter at this stage, as it concerns employment, the guys will know. Can you either post the letter [minus personal details] as a jpeg or take a photo of it please? It will help us to advise.

 

If you're stuck on how to post it, I'll have a look for dx's patent method. Otherwise you could type out what's been said.

 

My best, HB

[chaostrain]

I Will type it for you Thank you for your Prompt Reply.

Notice of Civil Claim

 

 

Case Number : ****** Claim Value : £1017.18 Early Settlement Figure : £813.74

 

Dear Mr *****

 

Civil Recovery Solutions have been instructed by ************ to bring a claim against you to recover compensation for loss and consequential damages arising from incidents that were identified on 7th may 2013 as taking place in the ****** store. The goods in question belonged to our client and your actions at that time amounted to a wrongful interference with our client's goods. Our client is therefore seeking to bring a claim against you under the Torts (interference with Goods) Act 1977. In addition to your actions have amounted to a breach of terms of your contract of employment.

 

The claim value is an amount that covers the value of the loss and an amount that compensates our client for the investigation, security and administration costs that they have incurred as a consequence of your actions.

 

If you intend to deny liability then we would be grateful to receive from you within 14 days full details of the grounds on which you intend to defend the claim . In addition we would be grateful if you could provide us with copies of any documents on which you wish to rely.

 

If this claim is not settled our client will have no option but to consider issuing court proceedings if court proceedings are issued the court will consider and failure to respond to correspondence when making orders for costs and interest.

 

We would like to help you resolve this civil claim as early as possible. Please see the reverse for payment methods. If you are unable to settle the claim in one payment then you must contact us urgently to discuss options available to you on ********** during normal working hours.

Shop crime costs uk retailers over £4bn every year. Retailers are determined to make use of all civil avenues to recover the costs of crime. The civil claim is entirely separate from any penalty noticed, criminal proceedings and has no influence on any decision whether to prosecute or any penalty awarded by the criminal courts against you.

 

Without prejudice save as to costs.

 

Our client is prepared to accept a reduced figure of £813.74 in order to settle this claim. This offer is open for a 21 day period. If this offer is not accepted within that time then it will be deemed to be withdrawn.

 

Yours sincerely.

 

************

Civil Recovery Solutions Limited.

[ScarletPimpernel]

Don't post your scan as a jpeg, do it as a pdf, which is what I'm sure honeybee meant to say.

 

As far as this claim is concerned, is there no breakdown of the amount at all? In general, they can't claim the costs of investigation because that is one of the functions of management, and is an overhead or running cost which they have in any case. They might have some claim for the value of goods that you took, but don't promotional items have a miniscule nominal value? I've seen some promotional items which have something like 'cash value 0.0000001p' or the like printed on them.

 

The civil recovery company is best known for its risible claims for smoking in hotels. They can't take you to court; all they can do is send you letters. Only your former employer can bring a court claim, and I suspect it's unlikely - although there is a greater risk where employee theft is concerned as opposed to shoplifting. However, if the value of the goods is minimal, and they have, by dismissing you, taken away the source of income on which you would rely to pay any judgment, it seems rather a foolish course of action. Mind you, employers have been known to go to court pour encourager les autres.

[chaostrain]

Don't post your scan as a jpeg, do it as a pdf, which is what I'm sure honeybee meant to say.

 

As far as this claim is concerned, is there no breakdown of the amount at all? In general, they can't claim the costs of investigation because that is one of the functions of management, and is an overhead or running cost which they have in any case. They might have some claim for the value of goods that you took, but don't promotional items have a miniscule nominal value? I've seen some promotional items which have something like 'cash value 0.0000001p' or the like printed on them.

 

The civil recovery company is best known for its risible claims for smoking in hotels. They can't take you to court; all they can do is send you letters. Only your former employer can bring a court claim, and I suspect it's unlikely - although there is a greater risk where employee theft is concerned as opposed to shoplifting. However, if the value of the goods is minimal, and they have, by dismissing you, taken away the source of income on which you would rely to pay any judgment, it seems rather a foolish course of action. Mind you, employers have been known to go to court pour encourager les autres.

 

Each of the promotional items have a 0 value attatched to them. They were also not part of the stock count and was never inputted as physical stock in store. Which is why a lot of staff members abused this. Unfortunatly no there is no brake down on the letter at all. On the reverse are a bunch of payment options.

 

I already have had my dismissal letter with the reason and the value which was £520. However I figured Dismissal was punisment enough especially when it wasnt Gross Misconduct. The only thing the area manager said before leaving was I may get a letter asking for the time spent investigating. If that guy is paid £1k for a 4 hour investigation then damn I want his job.

 

Thank you for the help. Do you think an employer would claim for that amount?

[ScarletPimpernel]

Looking at their letter, it seems to me that you have three options:

 

 

1. Ignore them completely

 

 

2. Send a one-line letter simply stating that you deny any liability to them or their clients, and wait to see what they come back with

 

 

3. Send a short letter such as:

Dear Sirs

 

Your ref:

 

I refer to your letter dated xxxxx. No liability to you or any company you claim to represent is acknowleged.

 

 

Your letter fails to provide a breakdown of the amount your client is claiming. Without an accurate breakdown I regret that I am unable to assist further.Yours etc.

 

 

and wait to see what they come back with.

 

 

If they provide a breakdown, you can take out the stuff they shouldn't be claiming, and if you want to, make them an offer based upon a) the actual cost of the stuff you took and b) what you can afford.The approaches of 2 & 3 would go toward showing a court that you have made an effort to resolve things, should it be necessary.

 

 

However, you may like to wait for some other opinions before doing anything. Take your time - don't be worried by these clowns or their deadlines, which are meaningless.

 

 

Seeing that the value of the goods is nil, that is what you owe them.

 

A manager investigating a disciplinary matter is simply doing his job - so they can't claim the cost of the investigation.

 

I am inclining more to the idea that you should just send letter 2. You will get more drivel back from them, but come back and we'll help you.

[chaostrain]

Looking at their letter, it seems to me that you have three options:

1. Ignore them completely

2. Send a one-line letter simply stating that you deny any liability to them or their clients, and wait to see what they come back with

3. Send a short letter such as:

and wait to see what they come back with.

If they provide a breakdown, you can take out the stuff they shouldn't be claiming, and if you want to, make them an offer based upon a) the actual cost of the stuff you took and b) what you can afford.The approaches of 2 & 3 would go toward showing a court that you have made an effort to resolve things, should it be necessary.

However, you may like to wait for some other opinions before doing anything. Take your time - don't be worried by these clowns or their deadlines, which are meaningless.

 

Thank you so very much for your advice. You have no idea how much it is appreciated. I will take my time with this matter. I figured they should have included the police if they clearly believe I have stolen potential profit from them. But like I said the investigation was easy going I collaberated with them honestly. Maybe they have taken that as a sign that I would bend over backwards to suit their needs.

 

The items were promotional items so unless they begin to sell them which I doubt they would have a hard time proving how I have effected potential gain.

[honeybee13]

Don't post your scan as a jpeg, do it as a pdf, which is what I'm sure honeybee meant to say.

 

Yes I did, got the wrong acronym. Thank you SP.

 

HB

[chaostrain]

I am inclining more to the idea that you should just send letter 2. You will get more drivel back from them, but come back and we'll help you.

 

This sounds like some sound advice. However wouldnt that kind of letter just simply annoy them and want to push towards a court hearing even more so?

 

Thanks once again for advice.

[ScarletPimpernel]

You have to remember that the civil recovery company cannot bring a court claim; they have no cause of action and they aren't lawyers. The Law Commission has said that the legal basis for such claims is shaky.

 

Their business model is likely to be that for every hundred speculative invoices they send out, a percentage of people will pay, but most will ignore them. A few will pay when they receive further letters, perhaps with scary capital letters or scarier red ink, but most will ignore them. In other words, it's a numbers game for them; they will pocket a significant percentage of anything they receive, so it's a reasonable profit given that their only outlay is a few letters and postage.

 

Your ex-employer has probably signed up to their scheme because if someone pays, it's money they would otherwise not have had; if they don't pay, they've lost nothing. They are unlikely to go to court because it will probably cost them more than they'll gain to do, they are quite likely to lose because they can't justify their claim, and they've probably forgotten all about it anyway.

 

We know that RLP, the biggest of the civil recovery companies (but still very much a back street small operation), do get annoyed, but that's more likely to be due to the personality defects of the people there than anything else. All civil recovery, unless taken against convicted criminals, tends to be based on speculative invoicing and bullying, and bullies don't like people who stand up to them. But no matter; the chances are you'll get a series of template letters and then they'll give up.

[2Grumpy]

It sounds as though you might have been penalised for doing exactly what your colleagues were doing. Is there any other reason why your ex-employer might have wanted to get rid of you and saw this as an excellent way of doing so with less likelihood of you taking them to an industrial tribunal?

[ericsbrother]

You dont owe thes people a penny so dont pay them. Send the letter 2 and if you get further correspondence send a more detailed response to your ex-employer demanding to know the breakdown of the claim.

[2Grumpy]

The claim came from RLP so I would leave it with RLP rather than involving the ex-employer might have a clue whilst RLP seems to be whistling in the wind ...

[ScarletPimpernel]

The claim came from RLP so I would leave it with RLP rather than involving the ex-employer might have a clue whilst RLP seems to be whistling in the wind ...

 

The firm involved is Civil Recovery Solutions; there is no suggestion to deal with anyone else, including the ex-employer.

[chaostrain]

Hello.

 

Its me again. Firstly thank you for all of you're advice. However I just figured I would run this by you guys. Its been roughly a month and I have sent a letter however I dont think they acknowledged it. I have thus now recieved a letter now with a big red check box.

 

It States:

 

Civil Recovery Solutions :

 

URGENT ATTENTION REQUIRED

 

Ation Instigated

 

Case Number ********

 

Civil recovery solutions limited wrote to you on 17th june 2013, 4th july 2013 and 23 july 2013 detailing a civil claim by GAME retail limited. The claim is to recover compensation for damages and expenses in relation to incidents that took place on 17th February 2012(Wrong date). In the **** store.

 

Despire the above correspondence you have not contacted us to dispute or resolve this civil claim.

 

Why You Should Respond To This Notice

 

If you fail to respond to this notice the following actions may be issued in the County Court.

 

a) A County Court Judgment against you

b) Your possessions being Seized by Bailiffs to recover the damages and expenses (thats harsh)

c) The court may grant an attachment of earnings order to seek repayment from your employer through direct repayment from your salary.

 

Where court procedings are issued this would result in an increased sum owed due to court fees and added interest. The court will also consider any failure to respond to correspondedence when they make orders for costs and interests.

 

------------------------

 

So what should I do? I will be honest I am little worried However. The police were not involved in the matter and none of the items which were given to us had any stock value.

 

"It sounds as though you might have been penalised for doing exactly what your colleagues were doing. Is there any other reason why your ex-employer might have wanted to get rid of you and saw this as an excellent way of doing so with less likelihood of you taking them to an industrial tribunal?"

 

I will be honest. Before Christmas. I was assaulted during my shift by a customer who pushed past the barrier and assaulted me while the manager did nothing to help. The member who tried to help ended up also getting assaulted. The assaulter wasnt caught and lots of people have suggested for me to seek compensation but I didnt. However another line manager thinks that they did this so I could not seek compensation in the future. But hey thats just a theory.

 

Thanks for your time.

[ScarletPimpernel]

Just send them a short note:

Dear Sirs

 

I refer to your letter dated xxxxx, in which you state that I have failed to reply to your correspondence.

 

This is untrue; my position was set out in my letter to you of xxxxx and is unchanged.

 

Yours etc.

 

Of course, if you wanted to play with them, you could just say that you aren't aware of any incident that occurred on 17 Feb 2012.....

 

Or you could just ignore them.

 

If the retailer was going to take court action, they'd have done it by now. Every begging letter CRS sends dilutes the possibility of any serious outcome.

[ericsbrother]

fairly safe to ignore these people as neither they nor the employer have suffered a loss that would be recoverable. How freebies are dealt with is down to the company and its terms of service rather than attempted recovery of an intangible. What will they claim when it gets to court- that they lost a value of goodwill in their share price? CRS do this because this is how they make money. Your ex-company has a lot to lose by going along with any legal action and nothing to gain so they arent going to start another fight so it is a fair bet that nothing more than the occasional begging letter will turn up.