Failure to provide driver ID

[phelo]

hi all and hopefully someone can help, here goes

 

august 2012 i was a new employee for a liverpool building company, after a few months i found work elsewhere and informed them i am moving on, they wanted me to stay but the lure of more money and better prospects was to much, soonb after i recieved a notice forwarded from them of north wales police saying my previous company had named me as a driver with no seat belt, i asked for photographic evidence which was supplied this photo did not clarify anything (to blurry), anyway i recieved a summons from mold magistrate court informing me i was attend a hearing on 15th may 2013 charged with failing to giver driver details, even though i am not the registered keeper, i wrote a letter back to the court telling them that my previous employer are the registered keeper and i could not not name the driver because i have no idea who was driving at the time of offence,

 

june the 14th 2013 i have recieved a letter of the dvla asking for me to surrender my licence, because i was found guilty on 4th june 2013 for failure to provide driver details, i have rang mold magistrate and asked what was the outcome of the hearing, it was 6 points and 503 pound fine, when i told them i was not aware of the hearing on the 4th june they said a letter was sent, which i did not recieve, i asked could i have a statutory declaration, this was declined because they said i knew of the initial hearing on the 15th may 2013, i have today wrote a letter to the magistrate court as advised by the clerk i spoke to, she informed me the letter would be looked at by legal advises and they would decide whether my case should be re opened, this is a copy of said letter

 

Dear sir/madam

 

My name is ***EDIT OUT PERSONAL DETAILS ** ,

case number **EDIT **

in 2012 my employer c*****in ltd sent me a letter informing me i had a

ticket isseud from North Wales police that i had been photographed not

wearing a seat belt, i questioned this because i always wear a seat

belt since i was in a very serious accident with a lorry in december

2005 when i was the passenger in a pile up, that occasion the seat

belt saved my life.

 

Now have asked for photographic proof of last

years incident to which this was supplpied and still it did not

clarify whether it was me, the picture was very blurred. I was then

issued a summons to appear at Mold magistrates on the 15th of May 2013

i sent a letter back saying i could not make that date due to work

commitments, the letter also asked me to name the driver of the

offence, this i could not do and still can not, the vehichle is not

registered in my name but C*****, also i feel i was not driving

the vehicle on the day of the offence, i would have thought C****

have a driving log,

 

The next communication i have had since the 15th may, was friday 14th

June of the DVLA asking me to surrender my licence because on the 4th

of June 2013 i was found guilty for not supplying the named driver, i

was unaware i had a court hearing on the 4th of June or i would have

attended to give my version of events, i recieved no letter informing

me of the second court date, and now i have six points and a 503 pound

fine,

 

would it be possible to re-open my case, i have rang Mold

magistrate and was informed i cannot have a statutory declaration

because i was aware of the first hearing, but the first hearing does

not make me aware of the 4th of June date, even so i feel there as

been an injustice because i could not possibly know who was driving

the said vehicle because it belongs to my previous employer and as to

be collected from their yard every morning by numerous people, i hope

you can help me with my dilemma,

 

i have moved away from my family in

Liverpool for a better upbringing for my children and the only way to

see my family is driving, i also work throughout the North West of

England, changing sites on a weekly basis and would not be able too

with the added premium on my insurance. i have not had a driving

offence in 15 years and would ask you please look into my case, i was

told when i rang the court to write a letter and the legal advises

would look, this is my only chance,

thank you for your time **EDIT**

 

i hope someone here can help me

Edited June 18, 2013 by honeybee13
formatting

[renegadeimp]

Please edit your name, address and reference out of the post.

[phelo]

sorry its been awhile done now thanks

[citizenB]

So are you saying that you were not the driver at the time of the offence?

[citizenB]

Have you sent the letter you have put in the 1st post ?

[phelo]

yes, there is a possibility it was me but it could have been other people out the firm, this is why i asked for photo evidence, which was sent but is not clear, also i asked if the company have a drivers log and was told they dont.

[phelo]

and yes i have sent the letter is that wise

[citizenB]

I would have thought it was a requirement to have a driver's log if it was a company vehicle?

 

Have you no way of working out if you were actually driving on that particular date?

 

The reason I asked if you had sent the letter is just so we can understand what advice you are seeking.

[phelo]

i also thought it was a requirement, but they said they have a work log, and i was working that day. have i gone about things the right way now, and can someone advise me if there are any mistakes legally by the court, i thought its not down to me to give driver details because i am not the registered keeper, yet i have the fine and points

[Aretnap]

It's not a requirement as such for a company to keep records of who drives its vehicles, however if a company if charged with failure to name the driver it can only rely on a "we don't know" defence if the failure to keep a record was reasonable. (Law here)

 

However as it's you who was charged, not the company, that's not very relevant. It comes down to what you did or didn't do, not what the company did or didn't do.

 

Anyone can be required to give information about the identity of the driver, however the burden on them depends on their relationship to the vehicle. The "person keeping the vehicle" (not necessarily the registered keeper" has to provide the information required or prove that he couldn't, with reasonable diligence, have found out who was driving. "Any other person" must merely "give any information which it is in his power to give and may lead to identification of the driver", which could be anything from "the driver's name was..." to "I have no idea what you're talking about".

 

If the vehicle was a pool car used by many employees then I think you can reasonably argue that you weren't the person keeping the vehicle at the time - just someone who may or may not have been using it - and therefore the onus would be on the prosecution to prove that you could have provided more information than you did. That would depend on getting the case reopened though.

[phelo]

thanks aretnap the vehicle is a pool car used daily by numerous people its returned to the yard nightly, i said i would admit to the seat belt charge if they showed some paper work of me being in charge of the vehicle on that day, now i feel its too late, what are the chances of the court opening my case? my insurance is going to hit the roof

[Sheila117]

Do you drive without a seatbelt?

I know this doesn't help your case but it might help get it clear in your mind whether there was a chance it was you.

 

I drive a work van and always wear a seatbelt so if this allegation was handed to me I'd know 100% it wasn't me.

[phelo]

i always wear a seatbelt, read my letter to the court

[BazzaS]

anyway i recieved a summons from mold magistrate court informing me i was attend a hearing on 15th may 2013 .....

 

I was then issued a summons to appear at Mold magistrates on the 15th of May 2013

i sent a letter back saying i could not make that date due to work commitments,

 

 

I would not rely on "work commitments prevented me attending". It is a summons ... You are required to attend.

 

You can ASK for the hearing to be held on a different date, but the court doesn't have to arrange its workload around you.

 

There is a danger that relying on that presumption now may irritate those dealing with your case. They have already declined you making a statutory declaration on that basis.

 

You might be better stressing that since you were naive of the process, you didn't check that the court had been able to consider your request for a different date, or - if the court had been kind enough to grant you a different hearing date (4th June?) that you were unaware of that new date and would have attended if you had known of it. Therefore, you ask if the court would consider re-hearing the case with you attending in person, at any date of the court's choosing, under their powers of the Magistrates’ Courts Act 1980 S142, and you will phone the court offices weekly to ensure you don't again miss the court's reply.

 

After typing the above I note that you have replied down the thread (18:11 17th June) that you have already sent your letter, with your first post at 17:58 on 17th June, and also replied (somewhat curtly? : "i always wear a seatbelt, read my letter to the court") to another respondee.

 

So, are you looking for validation for the letter you have already sent the court, or advice?

If for advice : you might have been better waiting to give people a chance to offer that advice before sending the letter.

 

If for "validation" : for the reasons above I can't say it was what I would have sent, but since it has already been sent, good luck!

 

Your other option (but it is mutually exclusive to asking the Magistrates to use their S142 powers) is a Crown Court Appeal. You have 21 days from sentencing (so, from 4th June, so the clock is ticking!) to do so, and it could be expensive if you don't succeed : on this basis and since you already told the court "I don't know who was driving and can't reasonably be expected to know" - if you were considering this route I suggest you need advice from a legal professional : see a criminal law solicitor & sooner rather than later.

Edited June 19, 2013 by BazzaS

[Conniff]

If there is no work log to say you weren't driving, then there is no work log to say you were so how can they say it was you.

I would claim victimisation by the company because you gave notice.

[phelo]

i have had a reply from the court, there legal adviser

 

Dear Sir,

I refer to your e mails of 17th June relating to the above case.

You may apply to the Mold magistrates court sitting on 2nd July at 12noon to reopen the case. It would be in your interests to attend that hearing particularly given the court record is that notice of the adjourned hearing was sent to you on 20th May 2013.

Yours faithfully,

 

Paul Conlon

Legal team Manager

 

he also sent me this when i asked him how i apply,

 

Hi, You simply come along and make verbal submissions as to why it is in the interests of justice to reopen. If the court accept you did not get the adjournment notice it is likely they will find it is in the interests of justice to reopen.

Regards

Paul

 

now my question is can someone help me put a statement together, i am very nervous standing in front of a magistrate and would be grateful if someone can help me with what i say

[phelo]

i didnt mean to sound curt, i was just stating what was in my letter, it mentions me always wearing a seatbelt so anyone asking do i wear one obviously havent bothered reading the posts, and i was seeking advice or oppinion, people with expertence may have there take on my situation, so am sorry if i sounded curt but am a bit stressed with this situation!

 

 

 

I would not rely on "work commitments prevented me attending". It is a summons ... You are required to attend.

 

You can ASK for the hearing to be held on a different date, but the court doesn't have to arrange its workload around you.

 

There is a danger that relying on that presumption now may irritate those dealing with your case. They have already declined you making a statutory declaration on that basis.

 

You might be better stressing that since you were naive of the process, you didn't check that the court had been able to consider your request for a different date, or - if the court had been kind enough to grant you a different hearing date (4th June?) that you were unaware of that new date and would have attended if you had known of it. Therefore, you ask if the court would consider re-hearing the case with you attending in person, at any date of the court's choosing, under their powers of the Magistrates’ Courts Act 1980 S142, and you will phone the court offices weekly to ensure you don't again miss the court's reply.

 

After typing the above I note that you have replied down the thread (18:11 17th June) that you have already sent your letter, with your first post at 17:58 on 17th June, and also replied (somewhat curtly? : "i always wear a seatbelt, read my letter to the court") to another respondee.

 

So, are you looking for validation for the letter you have already sent the court, or advice?

If for advice : you might have been better waiting to give people a chance to offer that advice before sending the letter.

 

If for "validation" : for the reasons above I can't say it was what I would have sent, but since it has already been sent, good luck!

 

Your other option (but it is mutually exclusive to asking the Magistrates to use their S142 powers) is a Crown Court Appeal. You have 21 days from sentencing (so, from 4th June, so the clock is ticking!) to do so, and it could be expensive if you don't succeed : on this basis and since you already told the court "I don't know who was driving and can't reasonably be expected to know" - if you were considering this route I suggest you need advice from a legal professional : see a criminal law solicitor & sooner rather than later.

[phelo]

could really do with some help pleeeeeeease

[Desperate Daniella]

Hi phelo,

 

I'm sure you will get some help with this over the weekend.

 

The magistrate will ask you questions, so you need to get everything written down in chronological order and all supporting papers in order. Take a copy of everything to pass to the magistrate too.

 

Try and put something together over the weekend and post up a draft here. Follow Bazza's advice above on how to present your case: apology, naivety about the process, and so on.

[phelo]

thank you daniella

[Desperate Daniella]

Hi phelo,

 

If you put up the draft I will have a look if you like.

[phelo]

hi daniella, my hearing is now on the 9 th july so it gives me more time, i really dont know how to start this draft, i have a week an i am a bag of nerves

[Desperate Daniella]

Hi phelo,

 

Start at the beginning.

 

apologize to the Court

 

State that you always wear a seatbelt.

 

State that you left the company and that you feel you are being used as a scapegoat to protect one of their current employees.

 

You've got a few days, so just take it bit by bit.

[phelo]

thanks again i will put something together if possible would you have a look at it for me please

[Desperate Daniella]

Of course.