police speeding summons court notice.

[kdl]

Help!

 

I've just had a court summons from the police with regard to a speeding offence from the 13th february 2013.

 

They say i've not responded to requests to name the driver (i havent had any!)

 

This is the first i've heard of it!

 

Apparently ut was a police officer with a radar gun.

 

They are trying to add on all sorts of costs etc...

 

This can't be right surely?

 

Can i request things like the officers mobile phone records.

(He claims in his statement that it was turned off),

 

can i also request calibration details of the radar gun/epuipment?

 

Help surely these idiots can't be allowed to get away with this sort of behaviour?

[dx100uk]

if you we speeding why not?

 

you nee to contact the court concerned and ask where the court docs were sent too.

 

dx

[renegadeimp]

If you were genuinely speeding, take it on the chin and pay the fine. Don't start trying to play the system and have the taxpayers paying out for a case you wont win.

[Aretnap]

Whether or not he was speeding is irrelevant if he's been charged with failing to provide driver information, as seems likely.

 

What are the actual charges on the summons, and what information have they sent with it (eg copies of previous correspondence)?

[renegadeimp]

Whether or not he was speeding is irrelevant if he's been charged with failing to provide driver information, as seems likely.

 

What are the actual charges on the summons, and what information have they sent with it (eg copies of previous correspondence)?

 

From the ops info, he was the driver

[Raykay]

From the ops info, he was the driver

 

He may have been, but if the summons is for failing to nominate the driver, and he has not received any documents asking him to, he would be not guilty.

[Aretnap]

From the ops info, he was the driver

Which is also irrelevant to a failure to provide charge (assuming the claim is that he didn't reply at all, rather that he replied along the lines of "I don't know").

[kdl]

Sorry Guy's i didn't make myself clear.

 

The speeding charge is not a problem,

i accept that one, the problem is they also charged me with failing to provide details of who the driver was both

of which are 3 penalty points (obviously i can't do that if i haven't received a request/notification,

also any check on the data bases of the DVLA and the British Motor Insurance Bureau would reveal that i am the sole owner,

and the only person insured to drive the vehicle).

 

I've spoken to the police about it, and they've given me the number of the ticketing dept at HQ

and told me to speak to them and explain the situation.

 

After going through all the paperwork they sent me

it says that they've previously sent me correspondence relating to this

and that they've done this and i haven't replied

(as far as i'm aware the fact that they say something has been sent is not proof that i've received it,

 

personally when when sending anything legal or important i always send it royal mail tracked times delivery

with a signature as this prevents problems such as this).

 

I also noticed that it wasn't a Police Officer that reported me but one of the PCSO toy army brigade,

 

I also noticed that his typed/printed statement has been manually altered with a pen

relating to the times of the offence when he calibrated the radar gun,

 

obviously he's signed the statement but the question is was altered prior to his signature or afterwards?

Why did he not just re-type/re-print it and then sign it?

 

the time difference is a good few hours, and the original unaltered statement would put him elsewhere.

 

Surely the fact that it has been altered would render it inadmissable as evidence?

I'm also going down to thew court tomorrow to speak to them about the non notification as recommended by the police

(They were unsusually and strangely helpful! and rang me back as as they promised to,

 

they also asked if i would like to make a complaint against either the PCSO or the ticketing department

(i said i haven't decided yet)?

 

I would be grateful for any help if anyone can?

 

Many thanks.

[Aretnap]

OK, sounds like there are two quite separate charges

 

(1) that you were speeding (this would get you 3 points and a small fine, assuming you weren't too far over the limit)

(2) that you failed to provide the name of the driver when required (this is a mandatory 6 points, not 3, and a much bigger fine than speeding

 

(2) is your bigger problem. In fact at the moment you should not be convicted of (1) at all, as they have no proof that it was actually you diving at the time - the fact that you're the keeper and it's insured in your name doesn't prove that you didn't lend it to a mate that day. However that's small consolation if you end up getting 6 points and a fine of a good few hundred pounds for failure to name.

 

The police say they sent you a requirement to name the driver, and possibly a reminder when you didn't reply to that. They don't use recorded delivery for various reasons - partly cost, partly because it would make it too easy for anyone who was expecting bad news in the post to avoid receiving it by being "out" when the postman came. Sending a letter by normal post creates a rebuttable presumption that it was received, and the onus would be on you to prove (on the balance of probabilities) that it wasn't received. You might do this by testifying under oath that you didn't get the letters and impressing the magistrates with your obvious honesty. However be warned that they'll be thinking that there are roughly three possibilities

 

(a) The letters were never sent in the first place. Not impossible but unlikely - the police will likely be able to show that they have procedures in place to ensure that outgoing s172 requests are carefully recorded.

(b) The letters got lost in the post. Also not impossible but rare, especially if there was more than one letter.

© You ignored them thinking that they'd go away, and that if they didn't you could always say "never got them guv". Not an accusation, but unfortunately quite a few people do this, so the magistrates will be instinctively suspicious of you.

 

Plus you'll have to give evidence, meaning that they can ask you if it was you driving... meaning you could be convicted of speeding unless you could get that charge thrown out beforehand. So it's possible to be acquitted of both charges but it's not for the fainthearted as if it goes wrong there's a risk of ending up with 9 points. I'd suggest seeking professional advice if you wanted to go down that route.

 

Alternatively the lower risk option is to speak to the prosecutor before the hearing and offer to plead guilty to speeding if the failure to name charge is dropped. They don't have to agree to this, but usually do.

 

Alterations or inconsistencies in the PCSO's statement are only really relevant if you find yourself actually being tried for speeding. If so, in a magistrates court you can accept a witness statement (in which case what's written on it is taken as being true) or challenge it, in which case the witness will be called to give evidence in person and you can challenge his recollection of the facts if you want to. However the fact that there are some alterations doesn't in itself make the whole of the PCSO's evidence inadmissible.

[kdl]

Hi guys,

Thanks for all your help and advice, the outcome, was 3 points and a £60 fine.

Once again many thanks and much appreciated.

[kdl]

Hi Guys,

 

after sending me my licence back (received sat morn) with the three points manually added, and that i had been fined £60.

 

I received another letter stating that they had made an application to the court for an order to pay!

attached to earnings, benefits etc, (in my plea i'd already offered to pay in installments due to my current situation

- i'd already sent a financial statement and details of my medical conditions,

that i was unemployed but not on the sick).

 

Not only that, but the letter also stated that not only is the fine £60 (no problem with that)

 

but there is a "VICTIM surcharge" of £20!

 

Surely that can't be right?

 

and who is the flaming VICTIM?!

 

help and advice would be appreciated thanks.

[Aretnap]

You need to contact the court's collection department to ask to pay by instalments, discuss your circumstances and set up a payment plan. They won't automatically do it because you requested it on the plea form.

 

The Victim Surcharge has nothing to do with the victim of your crime, it's just a stealth tax - a charge added to all fines, allegedly to pay for services for victims if crime in general.