Lowell and vanquis issues summons county court help!!!

[finlander]

Help,

 

My wife had a vanquis account since 18/05/06. She cannont remember how she applied whether online or via a advert. Anyway we cca' d them about 3 years ago and all they sent was aset of terms and conds but with no signature or tick box. No name or address on it. I wrote to them saying its not good enough and that the account was now in dispute. We had the usual threatening phone calls etc but havnt heard anything for about 7 months. Today I received a summons from MCOL stating we are being summoned to court.

 

The POC of claim summorised are

1. claiming in respect of an agreement under the CCA 1974 failed to maintain payments etc

2.Debt was legaly assigned to Lowlells by vanquis

3 Interest at 8%

 

Date of issue is 12 Jun 2013.

 

This is all from Drydens sol.................

 

I do still have the original CCA they sent and it certainly isnt a compn screenshot. More like the leaflet they used to send....

 

Some advice would be grateful. What to do next....Im a bit dissapointed as I hoped all this was behind us and we have managed to get back on our feet.

 

Geoff

[Guest]

any missold ppi?

any chance of it being statute barred?

stick to all court deadlines. things can be done online MCOL

can you type out claim word for word, less any identifiables? including how much roughly

have a read around similar threads, including the sticky threads eg re asking for further info/docs re their claim.

how would it be 'behind you'?

Edited June 16, 2013 by Ford

[finlander]

I thought it was behind us as they sent me a leaflet with no address name etc on it then stopped pursuing the matter. I have read on hear That Lowells are now producing some sort of dodgy spreadsheet CCA in an attempt to say this is a comp printout and the CCA is valid. Is this true? And if so is it valid.

[citizenB]

Help,

 

My wife had a vanquis account since 18/05/06. She cannont remember how she applied whether online or via a advert. Anyway we cca' d them about 3 years ago and all they sent was aset of terms and conds but with no signature or tick box. No name or address on it. I wrote to them saying its not good enough and that the account was now in dispute. We had the usual threatening phone calls etc but havnt heard anything for about 7 months. Today I received a summons from MCOL stating we are being summoned to court.

 

The POC of claim summarised are

1. claiming in respect of an agreement under the CCA 1974 failed to maintain payments etc

2.Debt was legally assigned to Lowells by vanquis

3 Interest at 8%

 

 

 

 

Date of issue is 12 Jun 2013.

 

This is all from Drydens sol.................

 

I do still have the original CCA they sent and it certainly isnt a compn screenshot. More like the leaflet they used to send....

 

Some advice would be grateful. What to do next....Im a bit dissapointed as I hoped all this was behind us and we have managed to get back on our feet.

 

Geoff

 

You have a timeline which you MUST adhere to.

 

Date of issue - 12 June + 5 days for service = 17 June + 14 days to acknowledge = 1st July + 14 days to submit defence = 15 July.

 

Did you receive the Notice of Assignment they mention in their claim form?

 

Did you ever receive a Default Notice from Vanquis ?

 

Do you know if there are any penalty/default charges on the account ?

 

What sum are they claiming ?

[finlander]

Thanks Citizen.......I have noted the timeline.

 

They are claiming £2627...which includes £461.84p intrest at 8% per annum. £75 court fee and £80 sol costs.

 

We never received a notice of assignment

 

Dont think we had a default notice just loads of menacing calls

 

I think there is default charges but not from when the account was active.

 

I think they would have been added after we put the account in dispute.

 

We CCa'd them about 2/3 years ago and as said they sent a photocopy of a leaflet.

 

I sent them a letter saying this was not a true copy of the agreement and the account was now in dispute.

 

They then got various DCA's to do the menacing bit but then stopped a about 2 years ago.

 

Actually thinking about it it has probably been in dispute for about 4 years as my daughter is 2 and it was done a couple of years before she was born.

 

The Card was taken out on the 18/05/06. Now am I right that this is still under the sec 127 cover but is also subject to the 2004 electronic aggreements thingy if they say it was taken out online?

 

My wife is adamant that it wasnt and that it was taken out using one of those adverts in a magazine.

 

And the photocopied leaflet from the first CCa request would seem to back that up.

 

But then if they deny that and produce a spreadsheet CCA then we will have to start digging.

 

Does anyone have any knowledge of these dodgey spreadsheet CCa's that lowells are throwing around at the moment?

 

Are they legal? Im gonna fight this. I intend to have them prove a line of continuity between the server and that spreadsheet and if necessary prove them to be lying.

 

I think they are getting away with far to much at the moment and we need to get something proved in court. It seems almost unbelieveable that a judge would allow them to say that they dont have one of the most important documents in a contract and let them make it up.

 

It seems they keep everything about a client except their agreement? Why?

 

Could it be that it is a convient document to lose as it would lose them their case if it ever surfaced. I think that they may now be shooting themselves in the foot.

 

The problem with using online applications is the one thing computers can do, and do very well, is store everything. they store ip address, they can even store keystroke info.

 

That's why the DPA was introduced. So if they go down the online application route I think they may be entering a minefield.

 

Also how long does a compnay have to keep data? if its 6 years then that would explain why they wait till 7 years is passed before starting a case...bit sus that.

 

If its longer that 6 years then surely all my wifes details and the details of any alledged online transaction , including 1p adresses etc...will be still on the server and available via a SAR.

 

If not why not...what are the hiding? My first step even before acknowledgement is im going to SAR both vanquis and Lowells.

 

I want all docs relating to the account and all records of calls made etc. Im not going to CCA lowells...why give them extra time....not until its defense time.

 

When I do I am also going to ask for 1. the deed of assignment 2. copy of default notice If the dodgey spreadsheet CCa arrives then we shall see where we go........... Im angry now.... Geoff

Edited June 16, 2013 by citizenB

[citizenB]

Ok, you don't need to send SAR to Lowells but you should send one to Vanquis. However, in this first instance you will need to send what is called a CPR31.14 for information. This is all part of the legal process and you don't need to pay for it.

 

Give me a few moments and I will pop some drafts up for you.

[citizenB]

Here you go. The first one is a CPR31.14 request - you can only request copies of documents they mention in the claim form which in this case is the Agreement and the assignment - plus you can ask for a statement of account showing how the amount claimed has accrued (eg if there are any default/penalty charges. All you need do is complete the claim form details at the top of the letter and send it via Recorded/Special Delivery post to the Solicitor mentioned on the claim form.

 

 

Dear Sir,

 

Re: (Claimant's name) v (Your name) Case No:

CPR 31.14 Request

 

On (date) I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the (Name) county court.

 

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim.

 

Prior to the issue of proceedings I had delivered a request for the production of the agreement mentioned in the Claim Form and on which you rely. To date that request has not been fully complied with.

 

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of [each of the following / the] document(s) mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

 

1: the agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

 

2: the assignment

 

3: statement of account or statements showing how the amount being claimed has accrued. This statement should include any default/penalty payments.

 

 

Although your claim is for a sum which is not more than £10,000.00 and will in all likelihood be allocated to the small claims track for determination upon my delivering a defence, at this moment in time I have not delivered my defence and the case has not been allocated to a track. In consequence the provisions of CPR 27(2) are of no effect and you should not seek to avoid compliance with your CPR 31 duties by claiming otherwise.

 

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document(s) I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

 

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

 

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

 

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.

 

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

 

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

 

I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you.

 

yours faithfully

 

 

Enclosed: CPR part 18 request

 

 

This 2nd request is CPR part 18 - it is a request for information only (in connection with items you wish to see, but have not been mentioned in the claim form). In this instance you require a copy of the Default Notice - in this request you cant simply ask for a copy of it, because it has not been mentioned. Again, I have drafted it as it should be. You can see on the bottom of the CPR31.14 above, that I have noted on the bottom that the CPR18 is also enclosed. You will need to add to the bottom of the CPR18 that the CPR31.14 request is enclosed.

 

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]44548[/ATTACH]

[finlander]

thanks mate all very helpful... Geoff

[finlander]

ok ready to go.... any views yet on these electronic CCA's?

[finlander]

ok following done 1. cpr request as posted by citzen sent to Drydens.

 

Also added that is the CCA is an electronic document I will reguire a copy of thye audit tral relating it to a computer request , a statement from who ever downloaded it and their expertise/ qualifications to interrogate a comp system and access to the raw data in order to get the above facts confirmed.

 

2. a SAR to vanquis.

 

3. a SAR to Lowells... why not its worth a £10 to find out what is on their files.

 

4. court summons acknowledged................

 

ALL THE ABOVE SENT RECORDED DELIVERY.................. ok here we go.... lets see what comes back...

Edited June 20, 2013 by citizenB
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[Surfer01]

When last was a payment made on this account?

[finlander]

my wife says early 2007 but Im not convinced.... i think prob late 2007 maybe 2008. Im waiting for the SAR from vanquis to confirm that. early 2007 would be good as I think it would be statute barred. either way I think it is nearing the end of its life and thats why a claim has been issued. Im not sure if Lowells are working on the principle that alot of people wont know what to do and will panic and make a payment (reactivating the account) or not get there deadlines right and lose by default. Either way I am not falling for that and have marked both postal orders 'SAR' so lowells or vanquis wont pay it towards the balance and claim a payment. Im not really sure what they are up to as the orig CCA request resulted in a leaflet wich was t&c's and nothing else. I know that DCA's read this site so just in case they take any orf this as an admission of liabilty. I AM NOT YOUR DEBTOR. I AM MERELY SEEKING ADVICE AND I NO WAY CAN I ACKNOWLEDGE THIS DEBT ON BEHALF OF ANOTHER. Lets see what they have found or are making up. As I say it could be a fishing expedition.

[citizenB]

Good idea to add that extra regarding the electronic application (if that is what it was)

[finlander]

she is convinced it wasnt so I added that as if she is right there is no way they will have her iip address etc etc ....

[finlander]

ok letter received form Lowells today . Letter was in respose to my sar request. They have stated that as my wife hase chaged her surneam then they require 'official proof' she is who she says she is. They dont state what proof/ so following letter being sent back recorded delivery........

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

ACCOUNT/REF NUMBER: ACCOUNT HOLDER ;

 

Dear Sir, I am in receipt of your recent letter. I must say I am rather confused. I cannot see why a change in my surname is relevant and will delay you sending the information I require.

 

You have sent the letter to my home address, confirming my location and your company has issued a court summons against me from the same address. I have written to you under my married name and stated my maiden name. I cannot see why a copy of any ‘official’ document will make any difference to you sending the information?

 

Also you fail to mention what ‘official’ documentation you would require. I submit that this is merely a shabby delaying tactic or used in the hope I will just go away. I must now advise you that neither of these things will happen. If I do not receive all information you hold on me within 40 days of my original request I will be making a complaint to the Information Commissioner about your conduct.

 

May I also take this opportunity of advising you that your solicitors (Dryden Fairfax), if I may call such a shambolic outfit such, have still failed to supply me with any of the documentation I requested under my disclosure request.

 

As the claimant in this matter, and the holder of a consumer credit license, may I remind you that the OFT take an extremely serious view of companies of your type misleading customers as to the enforceability of a debt.

 

If you have started court action without the correct documentation then I would maintain that you are being negligent in your duty. If I do not receive these documents I shall be contacting the OFT to make a complaint regarding your use of the court system to attempt to mislead your customers.

 

After all if you do not have the correct documentation then you are either incompetent or negligent in commencing court action.

 

Yours sincerely

Edited July 4, 2013 by citizenB
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[finlander]

Does anyone have any advice on when to submit my defence? Its due in on the 15th but they havnt even acknowledged my disclosure request and loweels have tried to faff off my SAR as above. Is it worth waiting till the last moment just to annoy them or should I bung it in now? Im not going to post it up here yet in case Drydens are watching. Any advice. Geoff

[Guest]

submit a defence anytime prior to the deadline, ie in time. but, if have given them time re request wait for that to be up re reasonableness.

up to them whether they comply with 31.14 cpr request or not. if its gone past your reasonable request deadline for copy docs mentioned or otherwise for an extension, then could do a defence and make representations accordingly.

re sar, have you had a reply back yet re your letter? it may have proved fruitful?

Edited July 4, 2013 by Ford

[finlander]

Im goning to send a follow up request to the cpr letter so that I look very reasonable to the ditrict judge. Then if I dont get a reply its going to be the 'I have had accounts in the past but cant really post a defence if they wont show me the docs defence'. No news from Vanquis regarding there sar....... Lowells said they wanted proof of my wifes name change by an 'official doc' so I sent them the letter above saying 'good try but jog on and give me the info seeing as you are writing to her at her address and you have started the ball rolling by taking her to court'......... I have found my original CCA request letter and the leaflet which was just terms and conditions that they sent in reply. No applictaion form......nothing...Am I write that this means that they didn't and still havnt complied with mey nrequest? Geoff

[citizenB]

For your s78 request to be fully complied with, you are entitled to receive.. in one package..

 

copy or truthful reconstruction of the agreement

terms and conditions from inception and currently (or at default)

Statement of account

 

If you have not received these then they have not complied.

 

Did you send your CPR request by a tracked method, if so, have you confirmed on the Royal Mail website that it has been signed for ? If so, then there is no need for you to send a follow up CPR request.

 

IMHO, they will claim that you have received something if the Post office has not returned it to them. So you should be able to claim the same.

[citizenB]

Also, the SAR has to be provided to you within 40 CALENDAR days

 

In what name did they issue the claim to your wife.. her married or maiden name ?

 

I agree that they are simply making an attempt to stall sending documents - especially as they have issued a claim and have already been corresponding to her.

[finlander]

ok so as I just got a leaflet in 2009 with T&C's and nothing else will that make a differnce in court? bearing in mind that would mean even now they havnt complied are they allowed to be even taking me to court? Im sending a follow up because i want the DJ to see my wife as Mrs reasonable who is dealing with a bunch of incompetent shysters... after all that will help when it comes to him being asked to believe that they would have sent the T&C's with the card etc......... why would they when they cant be bothered to now will be what he hopefully asks himself...... Geoff

[citizenB]

Responding to the above..

 

If your wife is adamant that she completed a magazine page, then almost certainly there would have been no terms and conditions present at the time of signing. Which there should be. So yes, that is a point in your favour.

 

You would think these companies would indeed ensure they have all their paperwork in place BEFORE issuing a claim. However, they very often don't. When they purchase the accounts they simply purchase a list which contains names, addresses, and £values. They are not provided with the paperwork. They are not made aware if they debts are statute barred, subject to payment arrangements, or in dispute.

 

IMHO, they should make certain there are no issues before issuing claims - the fact is they probably find so many people pay up on receipt of the claim or are so scared they simply allow a default judgment.

 

When they do happen on someone who decides to defend, then they simply employ obstructive methods - until either the Judge orders them to comply or they give up.

 

I am sure I have seen something regarding these magazine applications somewhere.. I will have a rummage around my files and see what I can find.

[citizenB]

 

Does anyone have any knowledge of these dodgey spreadsheet CCa's that lowells

are throwing around at the moment?

 

I am not quite sure I understand this ? Is there an example ?

[Guest]

no point doing a reminder re cpr request, if have proof of sending/delivery. either they respond in the first instance, or not.

[finlander]

hold on i will find a link