Nick of time dubious default.......

[mr.giles]

Hello Caggers,

 

Long time member, first time poster it would seem!

Anyhow, the story so far.

 

A long time ago in a suburb of Croydon, far far away, I had a credit card with MBNA.

They didn't put a hold on it when I fell into difficulty and added a further 4 or £500 to my outstanding balance, made possible by the extension they gave me to my credit limit.

How nice of them!

They subsequently offered me a 2nd credit card and said I could move the balance over at 0% for 6 months.

Thinking they were genuine, I accepted the new card.

Despite having asked beforehand the new card didn't cover the outstanding balance.

I protested but they came back with some BS and that was that.

I immediately stopped making payments on the first card and shortly after on the second as I was drowning and disagreed with the balance as it stood due to their charges.

Shortly after this I managed to do the penalty fees thing and instead of giving me a cheque for the outstanding fees, they took them off the balance on the second card!

They sent me letters regarding a default in January 2007 and, I think, might even have hit me with a CCJ, I know somebody did, many years ago.

 

In February of this year I noticed my credit score go down from 973 to 870 as a default had been entered by Lowell relating to the original MBNA credit card.

In the back of my mind, when considering claiming back my PPI fees, I was fairly sure that the SB date of this default was March or April of this year.

I have statements going to near the end of 2006 and I am still making payments, the next statements I can find are from mid 2007 and I make no further payments.

By the facts I can prove, the SB date should be August of this year but Lowell claims it is Spring 2014.

 

It seems I am not quite up to speed on things anymore and perhaps stupidly sent them a CCA request.

As of today, it has been 30 days with nothing other than a reply saying they are still looking for it.

Have I made a huge mistake in even asking for a copy of my CCA?

Surely my £1 postal order didn't restart the clock!?!?!?

 

In light of their failure to find it, can it be applied retrospectively to get the February entry by Lowell removed from my credit record?

If they can't find it now they wouldn't have been able to find it then either and the entry would be unlawful!

Should I send a prove it letter or stick to my original conviction and tell them I believe it is already statute barred?

 

Any help/thoughts/ideas/letters/Brandy or Opium you can proffer would be gratefully received.

I'll be on the window ledge if anybody wants me.

Edited June 11, 2013 by mr.giles

[sequenci]

Hello there.

 

The £1 fee doesn't restart the clock. The reason being is that it is the fee for a statutory request (i.e. the CCA request) and not 'a payment in respect of the debt'.

 

I think the CCA request is a good thing as you are entitled to a full statement of account, which should be able to show you when the agreement ACTUALLY defaulted.

[unclebulgaria67]

Wait for the CCA req to be completed by Lowell. They shouldn't chase you until they have provided at least a reconstituted version of the one you completed. A CCA does not acknowledge the debt, so no restarting the SB clock.

 

In the meantime you could send a subject access request to MBNA asking for all documents and data they hold, including copies of all statements.

[mr.giles]

*steps back in, off the ledge......*

 

Cheers Sequenci.

Thank fug for that!

 

Convenient for them then, that they can't find it.....................

 

*Edit.

Cheers Uncle Bulgaria.

I'm pretty sure I did that before I claimed back the penalty fees but they failed to send anything at all.

Pardon me for being old fashioned but I'd have thought some of these things constituted law breaking.

Edited June 11, 2013 by mr.giles

[mr.giles]

I don't really want to leave it until next year for this just to become Statute Barred according to their timetable and they clearly have no interest in finding the CCA.

Maybe I'll send the SAR letter but I feel certain it's either already Statute Barred or a month away from it.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hi what default date show on your credit files now please? What was the original default date they must be one and the same otherwise Lowell are manipulating the data.

 

The stat barred date is NOT mutually interchangeable with the default date, the date of the last payment can be up to 5-6 months prior to the default date, if you can provide me with these dates with certainty now we can kill this very quickly.

[mr.giles]

I have a statement from August 2007 that shows penalty fees and I know I didn't make a payment after that.

I'm assuming I didn't pay the July bill, otherwise it'd show up on the August bill.

They state the default date as being March 2008.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Is this Lowells entry or the creditors?

[citizenB]

Statute barred timing starts from the date of the first missed payment - not the default date.

 

Many DCAs will argue that limitation accrues from the time when the "default notice" is issued.It does not.

 

Limitation clock starts ticking from when the payment is due and not paid not when they send a default notice.

 

We see often that CRA entries will date 5 or 6 months ahead of when the payment was missed.

 

People need to be sure that they aren’t being hoodwinked and that the DCA is extending limitation so they can sue when they are not allowed to.

 

Edited June 17, 2013 by citizenB
formatting

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Statute barred timing starts from the date of the first missed payment - not the default date.

 

Perfect expalnation

[mr.giles]

Yeah, that's what I gathered from all the information posted in here.

They claim the date comes from MBNA, being the date they supposedly registered the default.

I KNOW I didn't make a payment from August 2007 and probably didn't the month before that as well.

[mr.giles]

Had a letter that I hadn't opened, dated the 14th of June, saying they couldn't find my CCA and would close my account, followed by a letter yesterday with a sodding copy of my original CCA.

I'm still fairly sure the debt is statute barred and know it is from July as the last possible payment I could've made would've been June 2007.

Do I SAR them or go straight for the jugular?

[citizenB]

Tricky one.. if it is just a few days shy of being statute barred, then sending the SB letter when it might not be kind of b*ggers things up.

[DonkeyB]

Did they not send the requested statement of account with the CCA?

 

Yes, SAR to MBNA is the way to go. If the default was not recorded contemporaneously to the actual default (ie. within six months) then an unfair relationship has arisen, and you are not being treated fairly – but this is something to initially complain about to MBNA who were responsible for recording the default.

 

You need the info first, though – why not call MBNA and ask when the last payment was, and when the default was recorded with the CRAs?

 

If Lowell are claiming the SB date relates to the default date then they are DELIBERATELY trying to mislead you –*that is a complaint to Lowell themselves, copied to the OFT.

[DonkeyB]

Also, it sounds like the CCA has not been fully complied with – what exactly did they send? Were T&Cs present? Were T&Cs from the time of closing the account also included, together with a statement of account?

 

If not, you must put the account in dispute. That will take them some time to sort out.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hi Mr Giles

Please can you give me your reasoning for thinking the debt is SB.

For SB there must not have been any payment or written acknowledgment of the debt in 6 clear years, if you can confirm

this I can draft a letter for you to get rid of this once and for all.

[mr.giles]

I'll check when I get home but they did seem to be fairly well on it.

I know they sent me one set of T's and C's but maybe not 2.

They sent me a statement of account in as much as that they reckon I owe them £1,000 and now have 2 weeks to come to some sort of arrangement, apparently!

The reason I say I'm fairly sure about the statute barred date is that a year or so ago I was going through old statements regarding making a PPI claim.

I wanted to process all claims for all accounts at the same time and remember working out that the SB date for MBNA account was much later than the rest and that I'd have to wait until March 2013 to get the ball rolling.

I can't find any statements at the moment for the months between December 2006 and August 2007 but the August statement included 2 penalty fees for missed and late payments so I can't have paid in July and I never did pay them again.

The default was registered, by MBNA, according to Lowell, on 19/03/2008.

[DonkeyB]

Call MBNA to check dates then.

[mr.giles]

Looking at the paperwork, they only sent me one set of T&C's and they had my last address on them.

I can't be certain but I'm pretty sure I was making no payments to any account before I moved in there.

The more I think about this, the more I'm certain the SB date has passed already.

I'm going to SAR MBNA again but they didn't comply with it when I went after penalty fees 5 years ago.

What are the penalties for not complying with a SAR? If any.........

[DonkeyB]

Call MBNA to check dates then.

 

Cut to this – it's a simple solution. Just call!

[mr.giles]

Okay, okay.

I thought I'd read plenty of times that calling them restarts the doobreewhatsit clock.

But I bow to your superior knowledge.

Edited June 27, 2013 by mr.giles

[mr.giles]

Cheers Donkey, and Brigadier and everyone else frankly.

I always thought ringing these sods was a no no.

Spoke to MBNA and the marvellous person told me the last payment I made to them was June 2007.

Boom tish!

I shall wait a few days and then send the Statute Barred letter.

[DonkeyB]

Told ya! No need to fear the call, as MBNA have no interest in this now.

 

Did you ask about the date it was defaulted with the CRAs?

 

If you can wait till the last payment date + one month, that would be helpful.

[mr.giles]

Yeah you did.

I understand now.

No ringy the DCA, do ringy the OG account holder!

I didn't ask but I'm pretty sure it was March 2008 cos I've got loads of letters saying they's gonna do it around January/February of 2008 and none after that date.

Wait a month? That I can do!

I want to negotiate the terms of a loan I am currently in full control of and this default on my account is scuppering my efforts.

A month won't make a hell of a lot of difference.

Roughly how long do these scrotes take to remove their entry on a credit file having been served up an SB for breakfast?

[DonkeyB]

You may have a problem with this whatever happens.

 

The good news is that the debt is pretty much SB.

 

But if the last payment was in June 2007, any default recorded up until about December 2007 or January 2008 would be acceptable. So this means that even if you do get the date adjusted, it may still remain on your file until December 2013 or January 2014.

 

Note that the issue date of a default notice is NOT the same as the date they record a default with the CRAs.

 

May be worth calling them back to ask for the date the default was recorded with the CRAs.