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    • This is the other sign  parking sign 1a.pdf
    • 4 means that they need to name and then tell the people who will be affected that there has been an application made, what the application relates to (specificially "whether it relates to the exercise of the court’s jurisdiction in relation to P’s property and affairs, or P’s personal welfare, or to both) and what this application contains (i.e what order they want made as a result of it) 5 just means that teh court think it is important that the relevant people are notified 7 means that the court need more information to make the application, hence they have then made the order of paragraph 1 which requires the applicant to do more - this means the court can't make a decision with the current information, and need more, hence paragraph one of the order is for the applicant to do more. paragraph 3 of the order gives you the ability to have it set aside, although if it was made in january you are very late. Were you notiifed of the application or not?    
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    • Hi, In my last post I mentioned I had received an email from SS who were asking me to hand over the keys to my mother’s flat so they could pass them to the Law firm who have been appointed court of protection to access, secure and insure my mother’s property.  Feeling this, all quickly getting out of my hands I emailed ss requesting proof of this. I HAVEN’T HEARD BACK FROM SS.  Yesterday, I received an email (with attached court of protection order) from the Law Firm confirming this was correct (please see below a copy of this).  After reading the court of protection order I do have some concerns about it:   (a)   I only found out yesterday, the Law firm had been appointed by the court back in January.  Up until now, I have not received any notification regarding this.  (b)   Section 2   - States I am estranged from my mother.  This is NOT CORRECT    The only reason I stepped back from my mother was to protect myself from the guy (groomer) who had befriended her & was very aggressive towards me & because of my mother’s dementia she had become aggressive also.  I constantly tried to warned SS about this guy's manipulative behaviour towards my mother and his increasing aggressiveness towards me (as mentioned in previous posts).  Each time I was ignored.  Instead, SS encouraged his involvement with my mother – including him in her care plans and mental health assessments.   I was literally pushed out because I feared him and my mother’s increasing aggression towards me. Up until I stepped back, I had always looked after my mother and since her admission to the care home, I visit regularly.   .(c)    Sections -  4, 5 and 7  I am struggling to understand these as I don’t have a legal background.  I was wondering if there is anyone who might be able to explain what they mean.  It’s been a horrendous situation where I had to walk away from my mother at her most vulnerable because of; ss (not helping), scammer and groomer. I have no legal background, nor experience in highly manipulative people or an understanding of how the SS system operates, finding myself isolated, scared and powerless to the point I haven’t collected my personal belongings and items for my mother’s room in the care home.  Sadly, the court has only had heard one version of this story SS’s, and based their decision on that. My mother’s situation and the experience I have gone through could happen to anyone who has a vulnerable parent.    If anyone any thoughts on this much appreciated.  Thank you. ______________________________________________________  (Below is the Court of Protection Order)  COURT OF PROTECTION                                                                                                                                                                                   No xxx  MENTAL CAPACITY ACT 2005 In the matter of Name xxx ORDER Made by  Depty District Judge At xxx Made on xxx Issued on 18 January 2024  WHEREAS  1.     xxx Solicitors, Address xxx  ("Applicant”) has applied for an order under the Mental Capacity Act 2005.  2.     The Court notes (my mother) is said to be estranged from all her three children and only one, (me) has been notified.  3.     (Me) was previously appointed as Atorney for Property and Affairs for (my mother).  The Exhibity NAJ at (date) refers to (me) and all replacement Attorneys are now officially standing down.  4.     Pursuant to Rule 9.10 of the Court of Protection Rules 2017 and Practice Direction 9B the Applicant 2must seek to identify at least three persons who are likely to have an interest in being notified that an application has been issues.”  The children of (my mother), and any other appointed attorneys are likely to have an interest in the application, because of the nature of relationship to (my mother).  5.     The Court considers that the notification requirements are an important safeguard for the person in respect of whom an order is sought.  6.     The Court notes that it is said that the local authority no longer has access to (my mother’s) Property.  7.     Further information is required for the Court to determine the application.  IT IS ORDERED THAT  Within 28 days of the issue date this order, the Applicant shall file a form COP24 witness statement confirming that the other children of (my mother) and any replacement attorneys have been notified of the application and shall confirm their name, address, and date upon which those persons were notified.  If the Applicant wishes the Court to dispense with any further notification, they should file a COP9 and COP24 explaining, what steps (if any) have been taken to attempt notification and why notification should be dispensed with.   Pending the determination of the application to appoint a deputy for (my mother), the Applicant is authorised to take such steps as are proportionate and necessary to access, secure and insure the house and property of (my mother).   This order was made without a hearing and without notice.  Any person affected by this order may apply within 21 days of the date on which the order was served to have the order set aside or varied pursuant to Rule 13.4 of the Court of Protection Rules 2017 (“the Rules”).  Such application must be made on Form COP9 and in accordance with Part 10 Rules.              
    • Unless I've got an incorrect copy of the relevant regulation: The PCN is only deemed to have arrived two days after dispatch "unless the contrary is proved" in which case date of delivery does matter (not just date of posting) and I would like clarification of the required standard of proof. It seems perhaps this hasn't been tested. Since post is now barcoded for the Post Office's own tracking purposes perhaps there is some way I can get that evidence from the Post Office...
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Help with atos medical again


welshmishy
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Hi can anyone help me please i have been on incapacity benefit for 20 yr due to back problem{ since the birth of my fisrt chid} i have a prolapsed disc which causes back ache and not being able to lift any thing with weight, i can hurt my back if i just move wrong. Last july i had to go to atos for a medical assessment and came out with 0 points? i have the added problems now of both knees are really bad due to athritis and having been told i will need knee replacements but not yet as i'm only 43yrs old and will need them done again if i have it know.

 

At the time of my medical i had a bakers cyst in the back of the right knee and couldn't put any weight on it , the nurse asked me to do some bending and other things but i tried and just culdn't do it she then helped me up on the bed to do some more movements but i couldn't do some of them. In her report she said i had a constant limp and that i had reduced reflections in my right side. She said i had refused to do some movements.

 

I appealed and it was overturned in my favour in may 2013 , i was put in a wrag esa and had all my money backdated , i'm being sent to the jobcentre again this month {june} this is the second time as my fisrt one was last month my adviser down the job centre thinks i'm well enough to work and was very cross that i get all that money for doing nothing? she wants me to go down the jobcentre even after i told her it's hard as my knees are getting worse and it makes my back hurt more, she has now sent me to a jobfit progamme which i feel is going to effect me even more.

 

Now 5th june 2013 i have had an other medical questionaire to fill in by the 8th july is this right as i feel i have only just be approved not fit for work by them changing the outcome of my appeal, this is having a very bad effect on me and my life as well as trying to cope with all the pain please can anyone advise me if this is how it goes the cab was not much help the first time around and i don't know where else to get help.:???:

 

Mnay thanks

welshmishy

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:welshmishy:

 

Unfortunately, receipt of an ESA50 shortly after an upheld appeal is an increasingly common scenario cos of the lengthy wait for appeal hearings. The tribunal panel were concerned with your capability for work last year rather than now. Also, Jobcentreplus can reassess whenever they want, from three months after a previous assessment. If your condition's unchanged or worse since last year, it's worth enclosing a copy of the tribunal decision with your questionnaire. Refer to the descriptors that the tribunal panel awarded points for and explain why you're still unable to mobilise for 100 metres, stay at a workstation, or whatever.

 

Whatever her opinions, your adviser down the jobcentre isn't there to advise on capability for work. The tribunal panel have already done that bit. Your adviser's role is to draw up an action plan to help you prepare for work and the plan has to be reasonable for your circumstances. She can't mandate you to apply for work. Should you be sanctioned for non compliance with an action plan you feel to be unreasonable, it's an appealable decision but you'd need to prove the activity would affect you adversely.

Sincerely, Margaret. :panda:

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Hi Margaret

 

Thanks for your reply i have sent a letter by recorded post to ask for the tribunal decision over a month and a half ago but still haven't had id , i have now sent another letter asking for it again 2 weeks ago again by recorded post and i'm still waiting. I will put it in the questionnaire if it come's in time but at this monment i don't know why they changed the decision or how many point's was awarded to me. My job centre adviser just don't seem to listen to me and is very pushey even not letting me have the choice to do the interview over the phone which i know you can.

 

Thanks for your help

welshmishy :-)

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:welshmishy:

 

From your original post I assumed, praps incorrectly, that you'd had a full appeal hearing before an employment n support tribunal panel, In which case you should've received a paper copy of the decision on the day, or via post a few days later. I'm now wondering if Jobcentreplus revised a fit for work decision at the reconsideration stage. How did you find out that the disallowance of employment n support had been overturned?

 

Work focused interviews via phone are at the discretion of the adviser. :-x

 

Margaret.

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I was told in writing that they had changed the decision{ from one address} and then it was a couple of weeks later i had another letter from a different address telling me what group i was in and that was all, no how it was changed or how many points. So i think it didn't even make it to the tribunal panel, i even had a lady from the CAB helping me but she wasn't very helpful.

 

thanks welshmishy

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:welshmishy:

 

Nothing ventured, nothing gained. For now enclose copies of the letters, and any additional evidence that you submitted in support your appeal, with the ESA50.

 

There's two possible reasons why Jobcentreplus haven't responded to your request. Either it's not got to the top of the pile, or they've not realised that you're actually requesting their statement of reasons for the revision (rather than a tribunal decision they can't find). You should be able to access the info you want via subject access request, which they have to respond to. :-)

 

http://www.gov.uk/government/publications/dwp-request-for-personal-information

 

Tick the boxes for ESA, use the box on page 3 to specify that you want full details of their decision to revise the disallowance dated xxxxxx, and send it (recorded delivery) to the address that advised which component you'd been awarded. Jobcentreplus don't charge for subject access. Theory's a response within forty days, and anything useful can be copied and sent on to Atos.

 

Best wishes, Margaret.

Edited by **Margaret**
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Hi Margaret

 

Thanks for your reply that's very helpfull and i will get straight onto doing that, the lady at the CAB has told me that i will lose my money away when it goes to the income base esa so it does make me feel is this worth all the trouble if i'm going to lose it away or get so little i can't afford to stay on it. It's just got so confusing ?

 

Thanks again

welshmishy:wink:

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Hi

 

I have now asked for my info by subject access request and have been told that it will take up to forty days. The letter i sent before this asking for my points awarded and about the tribunal decision also why they placed me in the wrag group when over the years my health as gut worse but all i had was a reply saying to send them proof of my health deterioration. Not what i was looking for so what do i do now? do i just wait ?

 

They don't seem to want to help me much and i have to get the new medical questionnaire in by the 8th july 2013? please can anyone advise me on what's best to do.

 

Thanks welshmishy:-)

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:welshmishy:

 

For whatever reason, Jobcentreplus've mis-interpreted your two original letters into a request for a new decision (supersession) about whether you've limited capability for work related activity. As you say, not what you wanted! The upcoming work capability assessment should consider that issue anyway, especially if you can get some supportive evidence about restricted mobility cos of the arthritis in your knees. And not being able to propel a chair cos of your back?

 

Personally, I don't think it's worth a further chase cos, from now, I doubt you'll get the info you're after any quicker than via subject access. For now, I'd complete the ESA50 as best you can, and enclose as much supportive evidence as you've already got/can get before the beginning of next month. Anything useful from your subject access response can be sent on to Atos.

 

There's a guide to completing an ESA50 at;

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?316210-ESA50-Guide

 

Don't know whether you've considered asking for a face to face assessment to be audio recorded? Apart from being a good idea anyway, the wait for Atos to source an audio recorder would buy some time to wait for your subject access response. :-)

 

http://blog.atoshealthcare.com/2012/12/how-to-request-an-audio-recorded-assessment

 

Best wishes, Margaret.

Edited by **Margaret**
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Hi Margaret

 

Thanks again for your help, i do agree with you that they have got my letter wrong and it's not worth writing again to ask for the items again so i will just wait for the subject access info to come.

 

I have filled out my ESA50 and have answered all as best i can so fingers crossed it's ok they never agree with what i put down anyway, i always go to pieces at the assessment and go out of my way to try and do what they ask of me just incase they say i didn't even try which is what happened the last time?

 

I have said in the last one i couldn't walk for long about 50 m and the nurse said i could walk the length of 2 football pitches:???: i will just do my best and im always very honest with my answers.

 

Thanks again :-)

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  • 3 weeks later...

Can anyone help me just been for my second Work focused interviews to be told that my money will stop in November 2013 as it will go over to income based but because my husband works full time they said I will not be getting any money from them? so where does this leave me and how can they expect my husbands income to cover both of us. I have only just filled out another ATOS form and am waiting to see if I need to go for another assessment with them, what was the point if I am now not entilted to any more payments?

I don't know what to do now can anyone help me.

My husband said what's the point in him working if I am to be left with no money?

Thanks welshmishy

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:welshmishy:

 

Unfortunately the information you've been given is correct. Payment of a contributions based award of employment n support with the work related activity component is limited to twelve months. The point of further assessment is that if you still have limited capability for work you'll continue to receive national insurance credits towards a full state pension. And of more importance; should your arthritis worsen to the extent that you've limited capability for work related activity payments will resume.

 

Depending on your husband's income, (and any savings either of you have) as a couple you may become entitled to other income related benefits like housing benefit and tax credits.

 

People with credits only claims can't be mandated to the work programme.

 

:sorry: I didn't write the rules, Margaret.

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Hi Margaret

 

Thanks for your reply , they are forcing people into work or your left with no money to live on. I just don't know what i'm going to do now so worried about the lost of my money and not being able to work?

 

All i can hope is that i get called back in and get put into the other group this time.

 

Thanks for your help

 

all the best welshmishy :-)

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:samsmummy:

 

The usual saga runs:

 

Incapacity benefit for n years.

 

Reassessment via a work capability assessment leads to one of three outcomes;

 

Fit for work - claim jobseekers - no contributions for a contributions flavoured award - claim income flavoured award based on household income and savings.

 

Limited capability for work - conversion award of employment n support allowance with the work related activity component - based on same contributions as previous award of incapacity benefit but payments time limited to twelve months - complete ESA3 form to apply for income flavoured award based on household income and savings.

 

Limited capability for work related activity - conversion award of employment n support allowance with the support component - based on same contributions as previous award of incapacity benefit and paid for duration of entitlement.

 

Cos of some very complex contribution conditions most ex-recipients of incapacity benefit don't have enough paid national insurance contributions for new contribution flavoured claims to employment n support or jobseekers.

 

Margaret.

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