Help with atos medical again

[welshmishy]

Hi can anyone help me please i have been on incapacity benefit for 20 yr due to back problem{ since the birth of my fisrt chid} i have a prolapsed disc which causes back ache and not being able to lift any thing with weight, i can hurt my back if i just move wrong. Last july i had to go to atos for a medical assessment and came out with 0 points? i have the added problems now of both knees are really bad due to athritis and having been told i will need knee replacements but not yet as i'm only 43yrs old and will need them done again if i have it know.

 

At the time of my medical i had a bakers cyst in the back of the right knee and couldn't put any weight on it , the nurse asked me to do some bending and other things but i tried and just culdn't do it she then helped me up on the bed to do some more movements but i couldn't do some of them. In her report she said i had a constant limp and that i had reduced reflections in my right side. She said i had refused to do some movements.

 

I appealed and it was overturned in my favour in may 2013 , i was put in a wrag esa and had all my money backdated , i'm being sent to the jobcentre again this month {june} this is the second time as my fisrt one was last month my adviser down the job centre thinks i'm well enough to work and was very cross that i get all that money for doing nothing? she wants me to go down the jobcentre even after i told her it's hard as my knees are getting worse and it makes my back hurt more, she has now sent me to a jobfit progamme which i feel is going to effect me even more.

 

Now 5th june 2013 i have had an other medical questionaire to fill in by the 8th july is this right as i feel i have only just be approved not fit for work by them changing the outcome of my appeal, this is having a very bad effect on me and my life as well as trying to cope with all the pain please can anyone advise me if this is how it goes the cab was not much help the first time around and i don't know where else to get help.

 

Mnay thanks

welshmishy

[**Margaret**]

:welshmishy:

 

Unfortunately, receipt of an ESA50 shortly after an upheld appeal is an increasingly common scenario cos of the lengthy wait for appeal hearings. The tribunal panel were concerned with your capability for work last year rather than now. Also, Jobcentreplus can reassess whenever they want, from three months after a previous assessment. If your condition's unchanged or worse since last year, it's worth enclosing a copy of the tribunal decision with your questionnaire. Refer to the descriptors that the tribunal panel awarded points for and explain why you're still unable to mobilise for 100 metres, stay at a workstation, or whatever.

 

Whatever her opinions, your adviser down the jobcentre isn't there to advise on capability for work. The tribunal panel have already done that bit. Your adviser's role is to draw up an action plan to help you prepare for work and the plan has to be reasonable for your circumstances. She can't mandate you to apply for work. Should you be sanctioned for non compliance with an action plan you feel to be unreasonable, it's an appealable decision but you'd need to prove the activity would affect you adversely.

Sincerely, Margaret.

[welshmishy]

Hi Margaret

 

Thanks for your reply i have sent a letter by recorded post to ask for the tribunal decision over a month and a half ago but still haven't had id , i have now sent another letter asking for it again 2 weeks ago again by recorded post and i'm still waiting. I will put it in the questionnaire if it come's in time but at this monment i don't know why they changed the decision or how many point's was awarded to me. My job centre adviser just don't seem to listen to me and is very pushey even not letting me have the choice to do the interview over the phone which i know you can.

 

Thanks for your help

welshmishy

[Nystagmite]

Have you phoned up to ask for the decision?

[welshmishy]

Hi

 

No i didn't know i could do that, who do i phone as i get letters from 2 different places?

 

Thanks welshmishy

[**Margaret**]

:welshmishy:

 

From your original post I assumed, praps incorrectly, that you'd had a full appeal hearing before an employment n support tribunal panel, In which case you should've received a paper copy of the decision on the day, or via post a few days later. I'm now wondering if Jobcentreplus revised a fit for work decision at the reconsideration stage. How did you find out that the disallowance of employment n support had been overturned?

 

Work focused interviews via phone are at the discretion of the adviser.

 

Margaret.

[welshmishy]

I was told in writing that they had changed the decision{ from one address} and then it was a couple of weeks later i had another letter from a different address telling me what group i was in and that was all, no how it was changed or how many points. So i think it didn't even make it to the tribunal panel, i even had a lady from the CAB helping me but she wasn't very helpful.

 

thanks welshmishy

[**Margaret**]

:welshmishy:

 

Nothing ventured, nothing gained. For now enclose copies of the letters, and any additional evidence that you submitted in support your appeal, with the ESA50.

 

There's two possible reasons why Jobcentreplus haven't responded to your request. Either it's not got to the top of the pile, or they've not realised that you're actually requesting their statement of reasons for the revision (rather than a tribunal decision they can't find). You should be able to access the info you want via subject access request, which they have to respond to.

 

http://www.gov.uk/government/publications/dwp-request-for-personal-information

 

Tick the boxes for ESA, use the box on page 3 to specify that you want full details of their decision to revise the disallowance dated xxxxxx, and send it (recorded delivery) to the address that advised which component you'd been awarded. Jobcentreplus don't charge for subject access. Theory's a response within forty days, and anything useful can be copied and sent on to Atos.

 

Best wishes, Margaret.

Edited June 12, 2013 by **Margaret**

[welshmishy]

Hi Margaret

 

Thanks for your reply that's very helpfull and i will get straight onto doing that, the lady at the CAB has told me that i will lose my money away when it goes to the income base esa so it does make me feel is this worth all the trouble if i'm going to lose it away or get so little i can't afford to stay on it. It's just got so confusing ?

 

Thanks again

welshmishy:wink:

[welshmishy]

Hi

 

I have now asked for my info by subject access request and have been told that it will take up to forty days. The letter i sent before this asking for my points awarded and about the tribunal decision also why they placed me in the wrag group when over the years my health as gut worse but all i had was a reply saying to send them proof of my health deterioration. Not what i was looking for so what do i do now? do i just wait ?

 

They don't seem to want to help me much and i have to get the new medical questionnaire in by the 8th july 2013? please can anyone advise me on what's best to do.

 

Thanks welshmishy:-)

[**Margaret**]

:welshmishy:

 

For whatever reason, Jobcentreplus've mis-interpreted your two original letters into a request for a new decision (supersession) about whether you've limited capability for work related activity. As you say, not what you wanted! The upcoming work capability assessment should consider that issue anyway, especially if you can get some supportive evidence about restricted mobility cos of the arthritis in your knees. And not being able to propel a chair cos of your back?

 

Personally, I don't think it's worth a further chase cos, from now, I doubt you'll get the info you're after any quicker than via subject access. For now, I'd complete the ESA50 as best you can, and enclose as much supportive evidence as you've already got/can get before the beginning of next month. Anything useful from your subject access response can be sent on to Atos.

 

There's a guide to completing an ESA50 at;

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?316210-ESA50-Guide

 

Don't know whether you've considered asking for a face to face assessment to be audio recorded? Apart from being a good idea anyway, the wait for Atos to source an audio recorder would buy some time to wait for your subject access response.

 

http://blog.atoshealthcare.com/2012/12/how-to-request-an-audio-recorded-assessment

 

Best wishes, Margaret.

Edited June 19, 2013 by **Margaret**

[welshmishy]

Hi Margaret

 

Thanks again for your help, i do agree with you that they have got my letter wrong and it's not worth writing again to ask for the items again so i will just wait for the subject access info to come.

 

I have filled out my ESA50 and have answered all as best i can so fingers crossed it's ok they never agree with what i put down anyway, i always go to pieces at the assessment and go out of my way to try and do what they ask of me just incase they say i didn't even try which is what happened the last time?

 

I have said in the last one i couldn't walk for long about 50 m and the nurse said i could walk the length of 2 football pitches:???: i will just do my best and im always very honest with my answers.

 

Thanks again

[welshmishy]

Can anyone help me just been for my second Work focused interviews to be told that my money will stop in November 2013 as it will go over to income based but because my husband works full time they said I will not be getting any money from them? so where does this leave me and how can they expect my husbands income to cover both of us. I have only just filled out another ATOS form and am waiting to see if I need to go for another assessment with them, what was the point if I am now not entilted to any more payments?

I don't know what to do now can anyone help me.

My husband said what's the point in him working if I am to be left with no money?

Thanks welshmishy

[**Margaret**]

:welshmishy:

 

Unfortunately the information you've been given is correct. Payment of a contributions based award of employment n support with the work related activity component is limited to twelve months. The point of further assessment is that if you still have limited capability for work you'll continue to receive national insurance credits towards a full state pension. And of more importance; should your arthritis worsen to the extent that you've limited capability for work related activity payments will resume.

 

Depending on your husband's income, (and any savings either of you have) as a couple you may become entitled to other income related benefits like housing benefit and tax credits.

 

People with credits only claims can't be mandated to the work programme.

 

I didn't write the rules, Margaret.

[welshmishy]

Hi Margaret

 

Thanks for your reply , they are forcing people into work or your left with no money to live on. I just don't know what i'm going to do now so worried about the lost of my money and not being able to work?

 

All i can hope is that i get called back in and get put into the other group this time.

 

Thanks for your help

 

all the best welshmishy

[samsmummy]

..

[samsmummy]

Can I please ask, on your point about contribution based ESA. How would it work if you have been on IB for over 20 years. Therefore would not have any contributions so to speak.

[**Margaret**]

:samsmummy:

 

The usual saga runs:

 

Incapacity benefit for n years.

 

Reassessment via a work capability assessment leads to one of three outcomes;

 

Fit for work - claim jobseekers - no contributions for a contributions flavoured award - claim income flavoured award based on household income and savings.

 

Limited capability for work - conversion award of employment n support allowance with the work related activity component - based on same contributions as previous award of incapacity benefit but payments time limited to twelve months - complete ESA3 form to apply for income flavoured award based on household income and savings.

 

Limited capability for work related activity - conversion award of employment n support allowance with the support component - based on same contributions as previous award of incapacity benefit and paid for duration of entitlement.

 

Cos of some very complex contribution conditions most ex-recipients of incapacity benefit don't have enough paid national insurance contributions for new contribution flavoured claims to employment n support or jobseekers.

 

Margaret.

[samsmummy]

Thank you for that, you are very informed. Its a help. Thanks again

[grahamdavid31]

Get your local MP to help you. Send what paperwork you can to them. They should help you with your current problems. You must sent any paperwork recorded delivery and keep some sort of log of events. Hope this helps.

[samsmummy]

I have only just got the forms to fill in this week, I will have to wait and see which group I get put in. It is such a worry. But I will make a note of your comments. Thank you