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    • Well I'm just butting in on this thread and I don't really know at all what's going on – but what I am certain of is that if you decide to take a legal action against somebody – it means that you have a plan to do so. This means that you understand the route, the threat you are going to make, what you are asking for, and when the deadline for the threat has expired then issue the action – no delays, no discussion – nothing. So I understand here that you not even sure who you are going to sue. This means that effectively you may not even have sent your letter of claim to the correct party.
    • Yes BF. I was about to issue that evening before I wondered whether the summons should actually be issued to them (Barclays Partner Finance at their head office) or to Clydesdale who own them? Or even to Barclays  as the owners of the groups. Thing is, I will issue as soon as I know and they have had a few more days grace if they think an NBA during Covid should allow more time.  
    • Johnson and Gove must think that Scottish independence is a certainty and Irish reintegration in the EU very likely - and they dont give much of a monkeys about wales Knowledge of Scotland not essential for government’s new ‘union unit’ jobs https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/scotland-uk-union-unit-jobs-gove-b1800250.html   "The job ad at Michael Gove’s department demands candidates “demonstrate good political judgement” and have the “credibility to build a strong network of relationships across Whitehall”. " "However, it states that “understanding of policy issues relevant to Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland” is only “desirable”"
    • many thanks DX I will do follow this advice.    one comment on what I've read on here. IDR  / the banks seem to rely on the non exclusive jurisdiction clause. However surely that would mean once its been through court here, it would no longer be active in UAE. Of course that is not how they work ie they would go for both UK and UAE if you ever returned. Is there not a way of highlighting and fighting there use of this clause on that basis?
    • Did you apply for a refund before you took any reclaim action?  If Ryanair refunded you for your flight then you have chosen to "end your contract" with them and they have no further liability for your travel.  This is pivotal because as long as you have a paid up ticket (and booking reference) then they have full liability and responsibility for you.  The minute they refund you, they have discharged their duty and you are on your own.   I am still trying to understand the basis for your claim.  The law says that if you are delayed then you have the option to refund or re-route (but not both which seems to be the case here).  You can go with the original carrier or not despite what Ryanair would have you believe.  You should tell them what you intend to do so they cannot claim later that you did not give them the option.     If I were to apply the best case to your situation it would be that the flight was delayed, you somehow told Ryanair that you were re-routing and off you went with your alternative travel arrangements.  You then put in your claim and waited.  If you then asked for a refund after your travel claim went in then you (and they) could argue that Ryanair has already part-paid your claim but you have a better case.  If you asked for a refund before your claim went in then the emphasis sits more with you to say you made a procedural error and they have a stronger defence.
  • Our picks

    • Ebay Packlink and Hermes - destroyed item as it was "damaged". https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/430396-ebay-packlink-and-hermes-destroyed-item-as-it-was-damaged/&do=findComment&comment=5087347
      • 27 replies
    • I sent in the bailiffs to the BBC. They collected £350. It made me smile.
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    • Hi @BankFodder
      Sorry for only updating you now, but after your guidance with submitting the claim it was pretty straight forward and I didn't want to unnecessarily waste your time. Especially with this guide you wrote here, so many thanks for that
      So I issued the claim on day 15 and they requested more time to respond.
      They took until the last day to respond and denied the claim, unsurprisingly saying my contract was with Packlink and not with them.
       
      I opted for mediation, and it played out very similarly to other people's experiences.
       
      In the first call I outlined my case, and I referred to the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 as the reason to why I do in fact have a contract with them. 
       
      In the second call the mediator came back with an offer of the full amount of the phone and postage £146.93, but not the court costs. I said I was not willing to accept this and the mediator came across as a bit irritated that I would not accept this and said I should be flexible. I insisted that the law was on my side and I was willing to take them to court. The mediator went back to Hermes with what I said.
       
      In the third call the mediator said that they would offer the full amount. However, he said that Hermes still thought that I should have taken the case against Packlink instead, and that they would try to recover the court costs themselves from Packlink.
       
      To be fair to them, if Packlink wasn't based in Spain I would've made the claim against them instead. But since they are overseas and the law lets me take action against Hermes directly, it's the best way of trying to recover the money.
       
      So this is a great win. Thank you so much for your help and all of the resources available on this site. It has helped me so much especially as someone who does not know anything about making money claims.
       
      Many thanks, stay safe and have a good Christmas!
       
       
        • Thanks
    • Hermes and mediation hints. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428981-hermes-and-mediation-hints/&do=findComment&comment=5080003
      • 1 reply
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Thanks - I'll put all the references clearly at the top of the POC. I will send it to Vodafone today. As I understand, Money Claim will inform me when the case has been transferred to the local court, at which point I will send the same POC to the local court.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi MrKD and CAG members,

 

Although I am sorry to hear that you are going through the same thing, at least we have found this invaluable resource: CAG. I've received plenty of good advice and I am really in debt to the CAG members that have helped me to date.

 

So, an update: VF filed an "Acknowledgement of Service" to my claim on the 7th August, so I am waiting for them to file a response within 28 days. They have also ticked a box saying they "intend to defend all of this claim".

 

At this point, I believe I am waiting see that defense and for the case to be transferred to my local court, which should be notified to me through the Money Claim website.

 

Once this is done, I should send the same POC I sent to VF to the local court, plus my mortgage advisor's supporting statement, my partner and my supporting statements, plus the spreadsheet showing how I calculated my losses, plus any other relevant evidence, e.g. a copy of my tenancy agreement which shows the deliberately inserted 6 month break clause which was never used since our tenancy ran over into 7 months and cost me an additional £1000 which I am claiming compensation for.

 

If any CAG forum members could confirm those last points, I would be really grateful. Just to clarify, I have not received details of the local court yet, but I am anxious to supply them with the necessary evidence to go along with the POC so they can understand my claim better.

 

Many thanks.

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Hi MrKD and CAG members,

 

Although I am sorry to hear that you are going through the same thing, at least we have found this invaluable resource: CAG. I've received plenty of good advice and I am really in debt to the CAG members that have helped me to date.

 

So, an update: VF filed an "Acknowledgement of Service" to my claim on the 7th August, so I am waiting for them to file a response within 28 days. They have also ticked a box saying they "intend to defend all of this claim".

 

At this point, I believe I am waiting see that defense and for the case to be transferred to my local court, which should be notified to me through the Money Claim website.

 

Once this is done, I should send the same POC I sent to VF to the local court, plus my mortgage advisor's supporting statement, my partner and my supporting statements, plus the spreadsheet showing how I calculated my losses, plus any other relevant evidence, e.g. a copy of my tenancy agreement which shows the deliberately inserted 6 month break clause which was never used since our tenancy ran over into 7 months and cost me an additional £1000 which I am claiming compensation for.

 

If any CAG forum members could confirm those last points, I would be really grateful. Just to clarify, I have not received details of the local court yet, but I am anxious to supply them with the necessary evidence to go along with the POC so they can understand my claim better.

 

Many thanks.

 

This thread is excellent...good luck with your claim.

 

Riverview Solicitors will be very busy in the 2nd half of 2013 i suspect...i am also in the process of taking VF to court for Default issues and i think i'm 6 weeks ahead of you in the whole process and awaiting a court date.

 

I'm going to keep an eye on this.

 

Good luck and again props to BankFodder who has helped me massively with my claim.

 

Shane

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Hi MrKD and CAG members,

 

Although I am sorry to hear that you are going through the same thing, at least we have found this invaluable resource: CAG. I've received plenty of good advice and I am really in debt to the CAG members that have helped me to date.

 

So, an update: VF filed an "Acknowledgement of Service" to my claim on the 7th August, so I am waiting for them to file a response within 28 days. They have also ticked a box saying they "intend to defend all of this claim".

 

At this point, I believe I am waiting see that defense and for the case to be transferred to my local court, which should be notified to me through the Money Claim website.

 

Once this is done, I should send the same POC I sent to VF to the local court, plus my mortgage advisor's supporting statement, my partner and my supporting statements, plus the spreadsheet showing how I calculated my losses, plus any other relevant evidence, e.g. a copy of my tenancy agreement which shows the deliberately inserted 6 month break clause which was never used since our tenancy ran over into 7 months and cost me an additional £1000 which I am claiming compensation for.

 

If any CAG forum members could confirm those last points, I would be really grateful. Just to clarify, I have not received details of the local court yet, but I am anxious to supply them with the necessary evidence to go along with the POC so they can understand my claim better.

 

Many thanks.

 

You have no need to send anything to the local court (retain it for your Witness statement) - you have provided both Northampton and Vodafone with your fully particularised PoC - Northampton will transfer any paperwork when they allocate the local court.

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"You have no need to send anything to the local court (retain it for your Witness statement) - you have provided both Northampton and Vodafone with your fully particularised PoC - Northampton will transfer any paperwork when they allocate the local court."

 

Hi - thanks for this. But the PoC I sent through Money Claim was a very short version of the full PoC I sent to Vodafone. I am a little worried that Northampton does not know the full details which I have sent to Vodafone. But I take your point about holding on to all the evidence for the Witness Statement.

 

On another note, the Information Commissioner has sent the following message:

 

"Thank you for your correspondence regarding your complaint about Vodafone.

 

The Information Commissioner’s case-handling process is a staged process. This means that complaints may pass through a number of stages before they are resolved.

 

In view of the information you have provided, we have made the decision to transfer this case to a sector specific team which deal with cases that require more detailed consideration. A member of staff from this team will contact you in due course"

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi CAG members,

 

I've now received the details of the response from Vodafone. Should I type it out for you all to see (with anonymous names / addresses)?

 

I'm now waiting for a questionnaire from the court, plus the case to be transferred to the court.

 

I obviously have many contentions with the defense and would like to address them in a letter for the court's attention which I will happily post here as well.

 

VF have also asked me for a breakdown of how I calculated my losses - I have had this in an Excel spreadsheet for some time.

 

One other notable point is that they say the "harassment" from their debt collection agency should be struck out because the Small Claim Track no not deal with such a matter.

 

Thanks,

 

Dan

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Hi CAG members,

 

I've now received the details of the response from Vodafone. Should I type it out for you all to see (with anonymous names / addresses)?

 

I'm now waiting for a questionnaire from the court, plus the case to be transferred to the court.

 

I obviously have many contentions with the defense and would like to address them in a letter for the court's attention which I will happily post here as well.

 

VF have also asked me for a breakdown of how I calculated my losses - I have had this in an Excel spreadsheet for some time.

 

One other notable point is that they say the "harassment" from their debt collection agency should be struck out because the Small Claim Track no not deal with such a matter.

 

Thanks,

 

Dan

 

VF have also indirectly they would like to use the Small Claims Mediation Service and obviously the courts prefer this. But I am very reluctant. Only until now have VF taken a blind bit of notice of this and their version of the events is very flawed and will not hold up once I respond. I have until the 19th of Sep to decide.

 

Any advice would be much appreciated.

 

Thanks as always.

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  • 3 months later...

Hi,

 

I think I am in "mediation" now with Vodafone.

 

They have offered to refund me my actual damages costs (phone calls, credit reports, plus 50% of court fee), but not the extra month's rent I have claimed (£1000) because of the delay in the mortgage going through - they say I have not provided any proof of my mortgage "solely being rejected on the basis of adverse information recorded by Vodafone". That is not true because I sent a supporting statement from my mortgage advisor saying how the bad credit was attributable to Vodafone.

 

Vodafone also says that claims for time spent researching the matter will not be dealt with in the Small Claims Court. Finally, they state that the £7000 claim for distress, harassment, damage to my credit rating, etc... has not been qualified and that the claim has been "exaggerated from the outset". I want to submit a supporting statement from my partner who suffered the most through this experience - I literally saw her hit her head on a brick wall and draw blood. I think that (plus my testimony) and the mortgage advisor statement are our main forms of evidence for a distress claim.

 

I think it has to go to court, right? Vodafone still maintain that they took the matter seriously from the outset, but this was only after their Web Relations team looked into it - I could not make any progress and was given false assurance throughout the many telephone conversations.

 

They say they will automatically withdraw their offer after 7 days (dated 7th of December).

 

Thanks,

 

Dan

 

Thanks,

 

Dan

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Don't worry about their threat to withdraw the offer. They still don't get it - that they are the wrongdoer and that they should be trying to repair the harm they have caused.

Vodafone are really just trying to score trivial points by offering only half the court fee. They do this to try and emphasise the fact that they feel that they are doing you the favour and to try and suggest that your court claim was unnecessary and unfounded.

 

Whatever you do, I suggest that you insist on the entire court fee. Also I think that you should have any eventual agreement tied into a Tomlin order. They won't like this because it will flag that they are liable and they have been beaten.

 

 

Most people misunderstand the true purpose of mediation.

Especially large companies - and especially their lawyers - who are often trained in a very limited way and are used to pushing consumers around without any need to address whether their decisions are basis on sound economic or business principles, these people think that mediation exists in order to allow them to get away with a cheaper deal and to somehow reach a compromise on the rights of the consumer.

This is not the case.

The purpose of mediation is for the parties to get together in a frank discussion, to be transparent, to clarify the issues and eventually a perfect mediation would reach the same conclusion and implement the same solution which would have been produced by a court if the matter had gone to trial.

The advantage of mediation is that this can be done far more cheaply to both parties and with considerably less trouble and inconvenience to an under-resourced and over-stretched court system.

 

Mediation does not require you to give up your position if that position is fully justified by the right of the matter.

 

Unfortunately, most lawyers have very little training in ADR (Alternative Dispute Resolution) and are unable to break out of their culture that they are bigger than you and that they should be able to bully you into giving up your rights.

 

If you are sure of your ground and if you have your evidence, then your role in the mediation is to present your case to them, tell them what you want - and tell them that if they won't buy it, that you are happy to get a judge to impose the solution upon them rather than allowing them to lose without a complete loss of face.

 

If you win, we will be very happy to publish the judgment in full on this forum and also flag it up to the media. You can tell this to VF as well - if they don't read it here for themselves.

 

They have made you an offer. You know your position and your losses better than we do. It is up to you to decide what to do.

 

make sure that the sums you are claiming are fully justified by your documentation. If there has been real stress then go and see a doctor and get a medical and submit this as part of the evidence.

 

Your time spent preparing and researching are claimable - but not in a small claim. had the claim been for a figure in excess of £10k then you could have added this to your claim for costs after you won.

 

I think that a Tomlin order is essential and you should put this to them immediately.

 

Have they cleaned up your credit file now? I can't remember. Is it fully cleaned or merely corrected.

By the way, I would advise you to trawl this forum for other posts in which Vodafone have damaged their customers' credit files. There are lots of them. Far too many.

Print out the stories and include them in your bundle. Althoug they are anecdotal, there are so many that it would be worth pointing out to the judge that VF clearly have a serious systems problem with their data processing.

 

Also, when you get your judgment, you should include a copy as part of a complaint to the ICO

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Many thanks Bank Fodder - I am so grateful as always. So, I will write them a letter saying that their letter is unacceptable, that I would like the whole court fee to be paid, and that I would like a court decision to be tied to a Tomlin order. I am also happy for you to publish the judgment in full and also notify the media of this case.

 

In terms of the evidence for the distress and corresponding claim for £7000, we have three supporting statements (myself, my partner, and our mortgage adviser). When this goes to court, my partner and I will be present - I assume the judge will ask us to swear under oath that the details of our statements are true.

 

I am also a little confused about this part:

 

"Your time spent preparing and researching are claimable - but not in a small claim. had the claim been for a figure in excess of £10k then you could have added this to your claim for costs after you won"

 

I kept the whole claim under 10K which falls within the small claims court scope - the money claimed for researching the matter was £152 (8 hours x £19). I am not sure why this is non-claimable.

 

I also wrote to the ICO - they have acknowledged the case, but nothing more yet.

 

I also think looking through the Vodafone complaints on the CAG is a very good idea, even though it only constitutes anecdotal evidence. I will send Vodafone a sample of similar complaints.

 

You also asked whether they fully cleaned or corrected my credit report. There is a correction on it now. The mortgage was immediately reassessed and approved once this happened - that is why I still can't understand why they say other factors may have affected it.

 

This correction is the only negative blemish I've ever had - and Vodafone should be aware of that as I sent them a copy of my credit report with my original complaint. I'm still so angry that after sending all that information, I got a letter asking me to call a premium number, which I duly did, only to be told by a person in the complaints department that they "may not have time to read it". 1 hour later they call back with a £100 goodwill gesture. The letter / phone system at Vodafone is just asking to have insult added to injury. People have to publish the problem on the internet before it is properly dealt with, quite the opposite of the swift response Vodafone alleges to make in these cases.

 

I supervise 150 student UCAS applications in my job - if I allowed an unjustifiably negative reference to be submitted with one of my student's applications, thereby resulting in them being rejected by their 5 university choices, our centre would be sued and I would be severely disciplined. That does not happen at Vodafone. They make out I am an opportunist through their aggressive stance in mediation. I'm just trying to clear my name and make sure others don't suffer accordingly.

 

Thank you again BF.

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  • 2 weeks later...

My latest letter to Vodafone:

 

In response to your letter dated the 5th of December 2013, I would like to make it clear that the proposal from your client is completely unacceptable. Your client has been negligent in the way my information has been handled and shown a blasé attitude with no fear for repercussions. When I gave Vodafone the right to use my personal data and bank account, I thought implicitly they would follow their duty to use them correctly and lawfully, and it is apparent they have failed to do so on every occasion.

I would like to return to Point 6 of Vodafone’s defence where it was stated that I deleted the direct debit prior to cancelling the account. This is absolutely not the case: I deleted the direct debit only after Vodafone incorrectly billed me and then reimbursed me the sum soon after. At that time, I was under the impression that Vodafone had made a mistake which they had tried to rectify through the reimbursement, but I still felt the need to prevent them from taking money and so deleted the direct debit. I insist that you provide the explanation for this reimbursement – to date it has never been adequately addressed – and I feel that much of the problem stems from that decision.

I would also like to return to Vodafone’s claim in their defence that I do not have the right of credit but only an opportunity to seek credit. As you are well aware, companies use my credit file to evaluate me as a potential costumer, and now more than ever, I am learning the importance of this. If Vodafone damages my credit report, it is effectively compromising my opportunity to seek credit and the ability to obtain it.

 

In addition, Vodafone continues to deny having acted in a manner which could cause me or my partner distress or alarm. Any responsible individual would be alarmed and distressed if their personal data were sold to a collection agency and their credit report damaged and wrongly altered. I'm sure all parties using a degree of empathy and honesty can appreciate the above without further explanation.

Furthermore, your client continues to say that my claim for the mortgage rejection is not based on any evidence, but refuse to acknowledge the evidence provided by my mortgage advisor, sent to Vodafone on the 19th of July 2013. Your client simply needs to consider the fact that the mortgage was approved within days of Vodafone placing a correction on the report. This, plus my full credit report which I sent to Vodafone on the 16th of May 2013, provide incontrovertible evidence that the mortgage was rejected solely on the basis of adverse information recorded by Vodafone. This black mark on my report had and could have continued to have a drastic effect on my future finances. I ask you to confirm whether there my report is now merely corrected or fully cleaned.

With regard to my claim for distress being “exaggerated from the outset”, I will draw your client’s attention to the simple fact that all of the phone calls, which your client has agreed to reimburse in the last letter, were followed by extremely upset exchanges between myself and my partner. Only until Vodafone’s Web Relations Team agreed to pick up the case once I posted it online did the matter start to become resolved (my many attempts through letters and phone calls were completely wasted and immensely frustrating). I strongly feel the ICO or court should review these phone calls for full transparency.

I also refer you to the attached statement made by my partner, the person who suffered the most throughout this incredibly stressful experience. I also draw your attention to the litany of internet complaints which are aimed at Vodafone for various infractions of the principles set forth in the Data Protection Act and currently visible through the Consumer Action Group website. Undoubtedly, there are many people who are experiencing unnecessary and genuine distress because of the ineptitude rife throughout Vodafone’s Customer Relations department. Finally, I draw your attention to the Information Commissioner’s Office letter of assessment (Case Reference Number XXX – letter dated 16th of December 2013) which clearly shows their view of your client being in violation of the first and fourth principles of the Data Protection Act.

At this point, I feel there is no other alternative but to have this matter resolved in my local court. I also request that a Tomlin Order be tied to this case, and I am informing you that with the help of the Consumer Action Group, I intend to raise this matter to the attention of the media. Finally, I reserve the right to use this letter and other documents mentioned here as evidence before the court.

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I think you should try condensing a bit and use bullet points. It is a know fact that many people only read and absorb the first couple of paragraphs and then skim through the rest. Pages of script may not get read.

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I appreciate that, but if Vodafone (or anyone for that matter) sent me a letter like that, I would read every sentence carefully until I understood it 100%. I mean at this stage they are almost certianly going to court, so it's passed the point of taking it lightly.

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  • 2 weeks later...

very very interesting reading is it the case then that vodaphone are not really alllowed to give details to fredrickson to start with as i notice i now have defaults on my credit rating thanks to vodaphone ?.i have fredrickson chasing me and i did not pay due to a dispute which i will surely not have a leg to stand on then my wife was very ill and it was the least of my worries if i pay my balance to fredricksen will my defaulted account be ammended i dont want to pay unless this is the case ???

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very very interesting reading is it the case then that vodaphone are not really alllowed to give details to fredrickson to start with as i notice i now have defaults on my credit rating thanks to vodaphone ?.i have fredrickson chasing me and i did not pay due to a dispute which i will surely not have a leg to stand on then my wife was very ill and it was the least of my worries if i pay my balance to fredricksen will my defaulted account be ammended i dont want to pay unless this is the case ???

 

 

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Once an account is defaulted, it stays that way unless you have good grounds to have it removed. Any creditor would rather stick red hot nails in their eyes than remove a default and no, loyalty means bu**er all to anyone

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Hi awholelottaworries,

 

Thanks for making me aware of your concerns.

 

If you'd like any help from me, could you email me with your details via the Contact us form here and quote the code WRT135 - CAG Forum in the subject line?

 

Once sent you'll receive an automated reply with a reference number. To make sure it reaches me could you update the thread with this and I'll get back to you as soon as possible?

 

Kind regards,

 

Lee

 

Web Relations

 

Vodafone UK

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does this come through to you lee ??

 

Follow the instructions Lee gave you above.

 

He will also be alerted to posts on this thread.

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