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    • Thanks for letting us know about this. I'm afraid that this website is mainly bad news about companies so it's very refreshing and very decent for someone to come along and to give praise where praise is due. How about a link to their website?
    • Having a little additional think about this, I think that your interests are best protected in the following way: You inform the seller that you are obtaining the quotes which I have referred to above. Having received the quotes, you then inform them that you are proposing to have the work carried out at XXX garage and that you will expect that the seller will reimburse you for the costs and associated expenses. You can tell them though that you understand that they may want to control the work being done to the car and so you are willing to allow them to do it but as the fault has manifested itself at this point and that it is clear that the problem is their responsibility, if they wish to carry the work out themselves then they will have to organise the collection vehicle and the delivery of it to you once the work is completed. Of course this will be very expensive for them and they will either fail to respond or they will refuse. Whatever their reaction, you would then go on to say that as they have failed to respond/declined the invitation to carry out the repairs themselves, that you are now going to your preferred garage – one of the two quotations which you have supplied – and you will have the vehicle repaired there. You are giving them an opportunity to comment. I think that if you use this approach, then you will be able to demonstrate very clearly that they had a choice and therefore they will be unable to disassociate themselves from the repairs which are eventually carried out at your chosen repairer. Even though this exchange of correspondence may mean that it will take a week or so longer to have your repairs carried out, I think you should do this in order to protect yourself in the best way possible
    • Please name the dealer   I would start off by sending them a letter of rejection seeing as you are within the 30 days. This doesn't mean that you have to reject it but it reserves your position. Secondly, on the basis of what you say, I don't think that you need necessary to find the cheapest place. You should be looking at the best quality that you can find. I think the best thing to do would be to get to competing quotations for the work you propose to have carried out – and not necessarily at the cheapest place, but a couple of proper reputable garages – authorised for that kind of vehicle. Inform the dealer as to what you are doing and providing with copies of the estimates for the work before you put it in hand. Give them five days to object or to make other comments. Make it clear to them that once the work is carried out that you will be looking to them to reimburse you. Of course you are opening a can of worms here because if you get some further problems – more serious – you may find that the dealer is starting to say that because you have carried out your own work so your own repairer on the car, they cannot now say that any defects were inherent in the purchase – and that they may have been introduced by 1/3 party repairer. I'm afraid that you have certainly fallen into a trap of buying a car a long distance away from where you live. We find that people often tend to do that because they think the car they have found is the only one in the world for them. They forget to factor in the difficulties that they will be if there are defects – particularly if the car stopped altogether – the cost of transportation to the dealer, the cost of having to travel up and down the country to collect the car – and of course these difficulties could emerge several times through the initial years of your ownership of the vehicle if you are relying on your statutory rights and expect the dealer to meet those obligations. Furthermore, if you have to bring a court action against them you are now dealing with multijurisdictional claims – suing out of Scotland against the defendant in England and that adds to the complications. It's too late for you to do anything about this – unless you actually decide to reject the vehicle – but at the very least, other people who come across this thread may get some benefit from these comments. I think it's important for you to get the best quality repair you can and to make sure that the dealer is aware of what you are doing so that if later on they try to deny responsibility for further defects, that you will be able to show that they were fully appraised of what you are doing and they will have less room to manoeuvre themselves out of their statutory obligations. I'm afraid that purchasing a car from one dealer and then having it repaired by another service provider, brings into the same kinds of difficulties that somebody who purchases a central heating boiler from one supplier and then has it installed by a different supplier find themselves in. When things go wrong, the seller blames the installer. The installer blames the seller – and you, the customer, are piggy in the middle. Not a good place to be. I notice that you are doing things on the telephone. Big Fail! Read our customer services guide. In your situation you should be extremely careful to make sure that you have got a record of everything and a full paper trail
    • What information do DVLA need for a provisional licence ?   Think the ID issue needs to be looked at a bit more. Surely you have birth certificate, school information, Doctors records. School and Doctors should provide a letter to help with ID.                
    • Amex as with any creditor must help you the FOS should go with you and make them remove all interest charged from the very 1st time of asking for help. the FCA regulations actually almost dictate it, they most certainly clearly state that if the are FCA registered they must help.   it's very telling they have no marked your credit file....almost as if they know they are wrong. it's also telling that an irresponsible lending complaint might well be in order hear too, they can just keep upping the credit limit without checking you can pay. and ofcourse covid plays its part here and they've already admitted as they allowed payments holidays until october in line with the rest of the industry and they should be continuing that. you problem is you keep using the phone, no paperwork no record of things discussed. i'd get an SAR off to them. and get the comms/account log and all the statements from day one and go nail them.
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Marlin Court Action on HSBC CC, HSBC already said they hold no CCA - help


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Can anyone help?

 

I have some large credit card debts on about 5 cards.

 

I have sent a standard letter asking for a copy of the CCA and had replies back but some seem a bit dodgy.

 

I'm no expert sp

 

I joined the forum to see if there is any help here for me.

 

Do I tell them that I dont think they have complied with what I asked for and put the account in dispute and pay the £10 for the SAR?

 

Are they legally entitled to chase me for payments while the account is in dispute?

 

I can post documents if anyone wants to have a look.

 

Cheers

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It would be helpful to have a look at what they have sent. It might also be best if you keep this thread for one account, and then open new threads for each of the others. Make sure you remove all identifying details including barcodes etc. The next step may differ in each case, so we will advise seperately.

Every journey begins with a single step :):)

 

Please note: I have no qualifications in this area - my advice is learned from the wonderful members of this Forum. Thanks to you all for your help.

 

If you have found my post helpful please leave a short message by clicking the star to the left of my profile - Thank You

 

The only person entitled to your Personal Finance details is a Judge not a DCA

 

Move all banking activity to another banking group if you have a dispute - your funds can be used to offset debts within the same group.

Be careful with Banking details (card/account numbers) as these can be used to take unauthorised payments.

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Guest Cartaphilus

Posting replies and what, if any, agreements they have posted to you is good. Then someone can look over them and see if they are enforceable or not.

 

Do I tell them that I dont think they have complied with what I asked for and put the account in dispute and pay the £10 for the

SAR
link3.gif
?

That will become clear if anything you have received doesn't comply with anything.

Are they legally entitled to chase me for payments while the

account is in dispute
link3.gif
?

Well, as you probably know already the debt still exists, it just depends on the aforementioned documents above being enforceable or not through a court. It's then a matter of choice to continue paying or not at a rate you can afford eg token payments.

 

Anyway, start with each debt in a seperate thread, so it's easier to deal with them and not as one thread and also list whichever DCAs you are currently with, so then it can be seen what or whom you are up against.

 

Lastly, if as you say some of them are 'dodgy' to quote you then you can also put them into dispute on that basis if none of them comply/are enforceable or missing anything but if you can post them up, then they can be looked at this can be very quickly established usually.

 

Edited - Oh, well, crossed posts as someone already posted that above whilst I was typing.

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Guest Cartaphilus

Yes, I may have an answer for you ... albeit delayed but for the last few hours I have had really major trouble trying to log in and get the site to load so apologies for late but it addresses your last post above:

 

Right, here we go. Just been doing a little checking elsewhere ... It would seem from what I just read, and in fact I had noticed earlier but didn't post it though meant to that that is an application for credit or what I think is known as a 'pre application form' for a credit card. Still unsure how/where page 2 and the peculiar dollar thing fits in unless as I surmised before it's an updated sheet you've been sent, filling in the gaps where some of the prescribed terms are missing which is something many creditors are known to do, trying to enforce the agreement using more recent terms. All except you can't have known what those were at the time of signing.

 

Okay, long breath later ... There is no limit, no repayment terms, and some other things missing. And most particularly the missed payment information. So, what I think now is as I posted before, you've been sent that extra page along with your photocopied or fiched 'original' agreement in an effort to try and argue it's enforceable. Sorry it took me a while to get there but between having palpitations over worrying about your card number and a few other things I was going frantic about I think I have a better picture now. I just needed some 'blanks' to fill things in for me more, though I did note it was an application form and should have noticed that earlier. I did but I was too busy going frantic over your card number there so my apologies.

 

So, now someone with more knowledge than I possess should be able to tell you whether or not that is enforceable. On the basis of prescribed terms not being there it may be not but HSBC will try to argue that it is your agreement.

 

Hoping I am making sense right about now.

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Yes you are making sense. I read on one of the forums that 3 things should be on the contract.

1. repayments

2. rate of interest

3. credit limit

 

Mine hasnt any of the above.

I also read that this only applies to contracts taken out before 6/4/07

 

Thanks for your help. Who would you think would be best to check it over then?

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I have HSBC credit card debts and sent the CCA form. Got a copy back and the paperwork has no Prescribed terms on it at all!

After looking at Carey VS HSBC am I right in thinking that its not enforcable as stated in s127(3)

 

"the court shall not make an enforcement order under s65(1) if section 61(1) (a) (signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (wether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under s60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor .. (wether or not in the prescribed manner)"

 

Accordingly, non-compliance with the relevant regulations is capable of being cured upon application by the court unless the doccument signed by the debtor did not contain the Prescribed Terms. In such a case the non-compliance cannot be cured and, in the words of Lord Hoffman in Dimond v Lovell [2002] 1 AC 384 at p397F, the agreement is "irredeemably unenforcable".

 

So I read it as HSBC cant enforce it?

If that is correct can I claim back PPI and all other charges?

Will they wipe the debt or will they make me wait 6 years?

 

I look forward to the replies

 

Scans of the document attached

 

http://s911.photobucket.com/albums/ac318/zentrix9/MR%20HSBC/

 

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Send them this;

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Account no xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

This account is in Dispute .

 

On xx/xx/2009 I wrote to xxxxxxxxx requesting that xxxxxxx supply me a true copy of the executed credit agreement for this account.

In response to this request I was supplied a mere application form which did not comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The document sent purporting to be a credit agreement does not contain any of the prescribed terms as required by section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) made under the authority of the “1974 Act” sets out what the prescribed terms are, I refer you to Schedule 6 Column 2 of SI 1983/1553 for the definition of what is required. Suffice to say none of the terms are present in the document

 

Since this document does not contain the required prescribed terms it is rendered unenforceable by s127 (3) consumer Credit Act 1974, which states

 

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

 

This situation is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

 

In addition should you continue to pursue me for this debt you will be in breach of the OFT guidelines, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on debt collection

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I refer to page 5 of the guidance which states;

 

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

 

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment.

 

I require you to produce a compliant copy of my credit agreement to confirm I am liable to you or any organisation, which you represent for this alleged debt, if you cannot do so I require written clarification that this is the case. Should you ignore this request I will report you to the Office of Fair Trading to consider your suitability to hold a credit licence in addition to a complaint to Trading Standards, as you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40

 

Since the agreement is unenforceable and the default notice is non compliant, it would be in everyone’s interest to consider the matter closed and for your client to write the debt off. I suggest you give serious consideration to this as any attempt of litigation will be vigorously defended and I will counter claim for all quantifiable damages

 

I respectfully request a response to this letter in 14 days

 

 

I trust this out lines the situation

Print name do not sign

Anthrax alert at debt collectors caused by box of doughnuts

 

Make sure you do not post anything which identifies you. Although we can remove certain things from the site unless it's done in a timely manner everything you post will appear in Google cache & we do not have any control over that.

 

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Looks like I may be able to wipe off £15,500 with these 2 cards and if I can get PPI and charges back that should be about another £5,000 paid back to me. WOOHOO!!!! Result!!!

Just another £22k to go and I will be debt free.

 

I have another card with Virgin thats about £10k but I bought a conservatory and never got it cos the company went into liquidation. I am trying to claim this back so could I say there is a dispute on the card account and legally stop payment for that amount until its sorted out. They have told me no verbally so are they just fobbing me off?

Incidently HSBC paid me the £10k back for the conservatory cos I used Virgin and HSBC to pay for the goods.

 

Any ideas anyone?

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Send them this;

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Account no xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

This account is in Dispute .

 

On xx/xx/2009 I wrote to xxxxxxxxx requesting that xxxxxxx supply me a true copy of the executed credit agreement for this account.

In response to this request I was supplied a mere application form which did not comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The document sent purporting to be a credit agreement does not contain any of the prescribed terms as required by section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) made under the authority of the “1974 Act” sets out what the prescribed terms are, I refer you to Schedule 6 Column 2 of SI 1983/1553 for the definition of what is required. Suffice to say none of the terms are present in the document

 

Since this document does not contain the required prescribed terms it is rendered unenforceable by s127 (3) consumer Credit Act 1974, which states

 

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

 

This situation is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

 

In addition should you continue to pursue me for this debt you will be in breach of the OFT guidelines, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on debt collection

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I refer to page 5 of the guidance which states;

 

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

 

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment.

 

I require you to produce a compliant copy of my credit agreement to confirm I am liable to you or any organisation, which you represent for this alleged debt, if you cannot do so I require written clarification that this is the case. Should you ignore this request I will report you to the Office of Fair Trading to consider your suitability to hold a credit licence in addition to a complaint to Trading Standards, as you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40

 

Since the agreement is unenforceable and the default notice is non compliant, it would be in everyone’s interest to consider the matter closed and for your client to write the debt off. I suggest you give serious consideration to this as any attempt of litigation will be vigorously defended and I will counter claim for all quantifiable damages

 

I respectfully request a response to this letter in 14 days

 

 

I trust this out lines the situation

Print name do not sign

 

Is this still relevant after the recent judgements showing that they can still chase even when they can't enforce?

Live Life-Debt Free

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Yes because it underlines the fact that they can't enforce. Even when they continue to pursue they've got to be careful otherwise it comes under the Harassment laws.

Anthrax alert at debt collectors caused by box of doughnuts

 

Make sure you do not post anything which identifies you. Although we can remove certain things from the site unless it's done in a timely manner everything you post will appear in Google cache & we do not have any control over that.

 

Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit

 

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17 Port & Maritime Regiment RCT

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;)

Should you ignore this request I will report you to the Office of Fair Trading to consider your suitability to hold a credit licence in addition to a complaint to Trading Standards, as you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40

 

Since the agreement is unenforceable and the default notice is non compliant, it would be in everyone’s interest to consider the matter closed and for your client to write the debt off. I suggest you give serious consideration to this as any attempt of litigation will be vigorously defended and I will counter claim for all quantifiable damages

Live Life-Debt Free

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  • 2 weeks later...

I sent off the letter and got a reply VERY quickly. Click on the links below to view the letter. Whats the next step? Any help will be greatly appreciated. Should I now send them a SAR to see if they have the original? and also start my claim for PPI.

 

Thanks

 

http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac318/zentrix9/MR%20HSBC/disputeletterreply1of2.jpg

http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac318/zentrix9/MR%20HSBC/disputeletterreply2of2.jpg

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They are partly correct in what they say in as much as they can supply a reconstituted agreement, however having said that if they wish to pursue this through a court they would have to produce the original. If they had one why wouldn't they send it instead of wasting everyone's time?

 

Ignore them for now.

Anthrax alert at debt collectors caused by box of doughnuts

 

Make sure you do not post anything which identifies you. Although we can remove certain things from the site unless it's done in a timely manner everything you post will appear in Google cache & we do not have any control over that.

 

Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

17 Port & Maritime Regiment RCT

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The other thing that gets over looked is if the Agreement has been 'varied' since the account was opened, i.e. interest rate has been increased then they have to supply you with the Original Agreement, plus Terms and Conditions for each variation. Until they do that the agreement is unenforceable. Creditors like to cherry pick judgements.

 

Carey v Hsbc (2009)

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  • 3 weeks later...

I am in the process of submitting a claim for misold PPI. I was employed at the time and told them that I was in a family business, classed as staff and would get paid if I was ill so I would not require the PPI, however it seems that when I was asked to sign where the crosses were I signed for the PPI.

I have also found that the original credit card application form has no prescribed terms on it and HSBC have also admitted they cant find the original document. So they cant enforce the debt. Hence the start of the PPI claim.

 

I have gone through the card statements and put all the amounts down on an excell sheet.

Reading the forums I am a little confused. I know you can claim 8% on each monthly statement, can this be acummulative monthy?

 

The first amount I paid on the statement is a payment of £33.46 for PPI so x8%= £2.68 nterest, added together is £36.14

Do I now add the next payment of £27.04 to the £36.14 and multiply by 8% and carry on doing this over the time of my statements? or do I take the amount of PPI I paid in total which was £2204.82 and just add 8% to it?

 

Looking at the FOS it says that 'the customer should be placed back into such a financial position 'as if the PPI policy never existed on the agreement in the first place', this is to include [where necessary] any interestlink3.gif that has been charged on the PPI amounts'. It also states 'the customer is also entitled to 8% statutory interest in addition to this figure, in restitutionlink3.gif of being deprived of this monies'

 

Any pinters would be good as I want to make sure that what I send doesnt look stupid.

 

Cheers

 

PPI payments.jpg

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HI

I must say first off that PPI is not my strongest skill.

 

The 8% you are referring to is statutory interest and it's an annual rate, not a monthly one. 8% monthly=96% apr

 

I would be claiming contactual interest (the interest they were charging you)

They've had your money. Make em pay for the "loan"

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

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cant do both PPI & charges on same spreadsheet

separate the two.

 

as its a credit card [for both unlawful charges & PPI]

charge them int at their purchase or cash rate for the month it was levied to today.

 

use:

http://www.egalegal.com/compoundWindow.html

 

i would not at this stage inc 8% stat until you progress to court.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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yes

 

the idea of a reclaim is you should be put back into a situation whereby you were never charged it.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thread moved to the PPI forum

Any typos spelling mistakes are due to leprechauns in my keyboard they move the letters around sometimes (amended just for Bookie)

 

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I offer help and advice in good faith, based on my knowledge and experience. I am NOT a legal or financial expert. There are many CAG members and site team who are better qualified. Please do not make major decisions based on my advice alone.I do not give advice via P.M's. If anyone can correct my mistakes or improve on my advice, please do.

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accumulative?

 

compounded monthly yes

 

rests=12

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Compounded yes, so I make it that they owe me at least £3757.11 for the PPI, £4851.26 if I include the 8%. Also reclaim back the late payment charges that are £252.85 or £298.81 with 8%

 

I was also refunded about 6 months ago for a conservatory that I never got (approx £9000), I was told that I could only claim back the interest I had paid from the time I reported it. I didnt report it to them because I waited to see if there was any money left with the liquidators and didnt know i could claim it back through my card company. Do you think they have fobbed me off? could I claim back to the day I paid for the conservatory? I would really like to know as it would help a lot.

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