Marlin Court Action on HSBC CC, HSBC already said they hold no CCA - help

[citizenB]

No worries.. I have moved you to the Financial Legal forums, as mention that there has been a claim issued - that has been stayed and now the claimant is trying to have the stay lifted and apply for summary judgment.

 

I would have thought if they have not provided the correct terms and conditions for the account and with the discrepancies you have pointed out, that you would be able to argue that they have a problem !

 

Have you already got a thread started with the original claim for this ?

[ZENTRIX9]

Hi B, yes I have.

My wife is in the same situation but hers got pushed through and she has a judgment and a charging order on the house now.Do you think she has grounds to get it reversed?

[ZENTRIX9]

Heres a copy of the first page of the T&C they say are the originals

 

http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac318/zentrix9/MR%20HSBC/20140114_234659_resized_zpsd76c7802.jpg

 

Now in the box it states " Here is a copy of your agreement for you to keep, it includes a notice about your cancellation rights which you should read"

 

So to me this sounds like they send out the T&C after you have signed so they werent present or part of the document which was signed.

 

I am pretty sure that when we signed they didnt have the T&C, they had run out and said that they would forward them on. Yes we would still have the right to cancel but as the T&C were not present then this would make the agreement improperly executed , wouldnt it? So irredeemably unenforcable.

[citizenB]

So let me get this straight.. HSBC issued a claim against you and you counter claimed for PPI - yes - have they repaid this and where did it go.. to you or offset against the account ?

 

Update:

 

HSBC have been sent a breakdown of PPI owed etc just over £4000.

 

They have offered to pay me just over £6000, so I have accepted and sent the paperwork back. Waiting for the deposit into my account now

[ZENTRIX9]

The refund came to me

[ZENTRIX9]

I think if they had a truly watertight case against me they would have credited the account

[theoldrouge]

if the account was sold to marlin prior to your ppi reclaim being settled

 

then the ppi refund would have come to you

 

h what are the amounts of the default charges on the t&cs they have sent you? eg late payment/overlimit

[ZENTRIX9]

I will have a look but I dont think it says anything for late payment or overlimit. The copy I have is a little fuzzy but I think I have a better copy somewhere.

Why is this important?

[ZENTRIX9]

On a post dated 17th June 2013 DX stated

 

"for a 2002 card they will need a true copy of the signed agreement - not a recon."

 

Does this still stand or have things changed?

 

Will this need to be produced to allow the case to be taken to court,

 

if they cant produce it does that stop them in their tracks?

[dx100uk]

correct

 

 

dx

[ZENTRIX9]

Ok so whats the best approach to get this over to the judge as I feel sometimes they are focusing more on the non payment than wether the contract is legal or not?

[ZENTRIX9]

I have a hearing in January where they have applied to get the stay lifted and going for summary judgment

 

 

do I send the judge and Marlin something on the lines of please confirm that you have the original document

as this will be needed in court to enforce the application due to the original CCA being signed pre 2007.

[AndyOrch]

You should submit a response witness statement opposing their application with your reasons ZENTRIX9 this must be served not less than 7 days pre hearing on the court and claimant.

 

Andy

[ZENTRIX9]

Just a quick query.

 

 

If a CCA is signed by myself at the bank for it to become executed does someone from the bank have to counter sign it.

 

 

There is a stamp on the CCA that says "received" with the date,

 

 

but nothing to say its been approved or counter signed.

[ZENTRIX9]

Update Marlin (was HSBC)

 

I have been digging through some paperwork and found some old statements from 2007. Also a copy of T&C dated 2008

 

The APR on my statement is listed at 19.9% on 14th June 2007 Mastercard

The APR on my wifes statement is listed at 15.9% on 11th June 2007 Visa

 

When we applied we had 2 differnt cards with 2 different APRs

 

The terms and conditions that they have sent us as the "Original" show 20.9% when we were allegedly given the contract to sign. i have never known the APR to drop, only increase so I would say that this is proof that the T&C supplied are not the right ones.

 

We also have a copy of the varied and current T&C, on both of them it shows the date that they were printed, however the date is missing off the "Original" copy.

Methinks that they are trying to pass off a different T&C as the original!

 

This would also mean that they have not complied with my original CCA request as they have not given me the Original T&C!

 

My wife was issued a CCJ and a charging order on the house and they didnt supply the correct T&C to the judge!!!!

 

I have a letter stating that HSBC cant find the original T&C.

 

Any suggestions?

 

I am in court in a couple of weeks and will submit a response witness statement opposing their application. Is it worth me sending marlin a letter stating that they will look silly when I prove that the T&C are the wrong ones?

[ZENTRIX9]

Hi can anyone confirm the APR rate for a Mastercard from HSBC taken out in July 2002?

 

Or does anyone have the credit card Terms and conditions they could post up showing the rate

 

Cheers

[caro]

The CCJ supercedes the cca so they have no need to even respond to a cca request. I'm sorry but you're wasting your time with that one.

 

What is the application you're fighting?

[ZENTRIX9]

The CCJ supercedes the cca so they have no need to even respond to a cca request. I'm sorry but you're wasting your time with that one.

 

What is the application you're fighting?

 

 

Caro, thats not what I meant.

 

 

I dont want to send a CCA request,

 

 

they didnt comply with the one I sent before it went to court.

 

 

What I was saying is that the T&C supplied are not the correct ones that go with the agreement,

 

 

so I am looking at the angle of not properly executed and the court ruled on it in my wifes case.

[ZENTRIX9]

My agreement is 2002 and I sent a CCA request and got a reconstituted agreement back.

 

Sometime between 2002 and 2004 my postcode was changed.

 

The reconstituted one has the new postcode on it and they are taking me to court with it as evidence of the agreement that they sent me.

 

Does this mean that I can say that it isn't valid because the address is wrong?

[ZENTRIX9]

Marlin have taken me to court after buying the CCA from HSBC,

 

 

its been stayed last year and now they are trying to get the stay lifted and asking for the court to award in their favour.

[havinastella]

To enforce an agreement pre April 2007 they need the original.

[ZENTRIX9]

Thats something Iwill be bringing to the courts attention that they havent got the original, I have 2 letters from HSBC saying that they cant find it!

[ZENTRIX9]

To enforce an agreement pre April 2007 they need the original.

 

Is there anything anywhere I can quote to the judge to get this over?

[Old Cogger]

atus:This is the original version (as it was originally enacted).

127Enforcement orders in cases of infringement

 

(1)In the case of an application for an enforcement order under—

 

(a)section 65(1) (improperly executed agreements), or

 

(b)section 105(7)(a) or (b) (improperly executed security instruments), or

 

©section 111(2) (failure to serve copy of notice on surety),

 

or

(d)section 124(1) or (2) (taking of negotiable instrument in contravention of section 123),

 

the court shall dismiss the application if, but (subject to subsections (3) and (4)) only if, it considers it just to do so having regard to—

(i)prejudice caused to any person by the contravention in question, and the degree of culpability for it; and

 

(ii)the powers conferred on the court by subsection (2) and sections 135 and 136.

 

(2)If it appears to the court just to do so, it may in an enforcement order reduce or discharge any sum payable by the debtor or hirer, or any surety, so as to compensate him for prejudice suffered as a result of the contravention in question.

 

(3)The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a) (signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

 

(4)The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) in the case of a cancellable agreement if—

 

(a)a provision of section 62 or 63 was not complied with, and the creditor or owner did not give a copy of the executed agreement, and of any other document referred to in it, to the debtor or hirer before the commencement of the proceedings in which the order is sought, or

 

(b)section 64(1) was not complied with.

 

(5)Where an enforcement order is made in a case to which subsection (3) applies, the order may direct that the regulated agreement is to have effect as if it did not include a term omitted from the document signed by the debtor or hirer.

[Old Cogger]

Section 127

 

 

Enforcement orders in cases of infringement.

 

(1)In the case of an application for an enforcement order under—

 

[F1(za)section 55(2) (disclosure of information), or]

 

[F2(zb)section 61B(3) (duty to supply copy of overdraft agreement), or]

 

(a)section 65(1) (improperly executed agreements), or

 

(b)section 105(7)(a) or (b) (improperly executed security instruments), or

 

©section 111(2) (failure to serve copy of notice on surety), or

 

(d)section 124(1) or (2) (taking of negotiable instrument in contravention of section 123),

 

the court shall dismiss the application if, but F3. . . only if, it considers it just to do so having regard to—

(i)prejudice caused to any person by the contravention in question, and the degree of culpability for it; and

 

(ii)the powers conferred on the court by subsection (2) and sections 135 and 136.

 

(2)If it appears to the court just to do so, it may in an enforcement order reduce or discharge any sum payable by the debtor or hirer, or any surety, so as to compensate him for prejudice suffered as a result of the contravention in question.

 

(3)F4. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .