Marlin Court Action on HSBC CC, HSBC already said they hold no CCA - help

[ZENTRIX9]

I paid for a conservatory 2 years ago, I was refunded but HSBC said I could only get the interest back I had paid from the day I reported it to them. I tried to claim from the liquidators but there was no money. I then tried HSBC. They only paid me about 2 months back. Can I claim back the interest I paid from the day I purchased the item? with compounded interest that they charged me?

[MARTIN3030]

You should certainly be able to pursue s69 interest at 8% but only a Court can actually enforce it.

You could try to claim compounded -again they are likely to contest,it would be up to a Court to decide.

[dx100uk]

you are entitled be refunded at their int rate for any payments you actually made and 8% stat because you were derived of the use of the money

 

might be an idea to start a new thread on that one

 

repost your spreadsheet with the ammended info if you wish for the card

 

dx

[ZENTRIX9]

I claimed under section 75 of the consumer credit act and it looks like HSBC have screwed me. So I have written them a letter and done the calcs and I think they owe me over £6000. Can someone have a look and let me know what they think. I wont send the letter until I get some advice. Also going to send a PPI claim and bank charges too. All in all claims to just under £10,000. Click on the links below to view the documents.

 

Thanks

 

http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac318/zentrix9/CREDIT%20CARD%20INTEREST%20CLAIM/hsbcinterestcreditcardclaim.jpg

http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac318/zentrix9/CREDIT%20CARD%20INTEREST%20CLAIM/hsbcinterestcreditcardclaimcalculations.jpg

[rebel11]

Hi Zen

 

I've moved your thread to the correct forum, that way you'll receive better advice.

[ZENTRIX9]

I have a few cards that I am hoping to get refunds on. Hsbc have an unenforcable credit agreement so if I get a refund on the PPI they sold me can I have that in the form of a cheque so they cant take it off the balance they owe me.

Also Virgin owe me £6000 for a conservatory I never got. The account is in dispute so can I also be paid by cheque so they cant reduce my outstanding balance with them. I think they can take it off any arrears that are outstanding but can I get paid the balance without them crediting the account with it?

I just think that they have had enough off me so if i can stop them getting more I bloody well will!

[rebel11]

Hi Zen

 

I've moved this thread to the PPI forum for you.

[ZENTRIX9]

I have received a DN which is up tomorrow. I will post a copy in the morning for some advice. I sent a cca request and got the documents back and after a couple of letters they have admitted that they cant find the original "application form" (which has no prescribed terms on it making it unenforcable). I put the account in default, my reasoning that if they dont have the "true copy" how could they supply me with a re-constituted copy under the cca? Hence they havent supplied me what I asked for under the consumer credit act. Is my thinking correct or am I way off?

If they then terminate the account would this be an invalid termination?

Now thinking about it if I send a SAR request and they cant supply me with the "true copy" of the application can I go for debt writeoff and report them for not supplying me with all information that they hold on me?

[harrassed senior]

To be an invalid termination they would have to terminate before the time limit on the Default Notice is up. There would be a date on the Default Notice (must be a date, and not '14 days from now"). Only if they terminated before that date would it be actionable.

 

With regard to their not have an enforceable Agreement, then the account is 'in dispute' until such time as they produce one. Sent the 'in dispute' letter and leave it at that.

 

If they have said in writing that they do not have the original document that is sufficient, there is no need to go for a SAR.

 

The debt is still owed, but not enforceable in a Court, so they will probably not 'write it off'. They are more likely to sell it on, without telling the next lot that they are in default of your request, and it will start all over again.

[ZENTRIX9]

Ok thanks, they have already had an in dispute letter and I got one back saying that they had supplied me with what they were required under section 75, a bit of a sharp letter, their final position in the matter. Then followed a big thick letter with all my credit card statements and a "kiss ass" letter saying I am a valued customer offering me £221.18 as a goodwill payment for the default charges I have had if I agree not to claim on the account anymore, RIGHT! I wasnt born yesterday. They owe me at least 6 years PPI. Bank charges, and a purchase refund interest they part paid me. Sending all those letters by fax today then recorded delivery so they have the copy.

[ZENTRIX9]

If they sell the debt on to a DCA do they normally continue to look for the missing document for the DCA or do they wash their hands of it and let the new owner worry about that? If thats the case do I just keep asking the DCA to produce the original and they eventually go away?

[Bazooka Boo]

If they 'pass' it on for a DCA to chase, then you simply reply to their chosen gopher, that the account is already in dispute and they should pass it back to the OC as they have failed to comply with the very basics of their job.

 

IF the DCA has 'bought' the debt and all the rights to it under the law of property act, then once again the above response will be required, and then the onus is put back on them to either supply the missing agreement, or discontinue their laughable collection activity, either way, if they have failed to supply you with the original or copy of the original agreement, and have stated they can't do so, then there is nothing they can do, they can't take you to court, they can't instruct anyone to do this or that, all they can do is send out grovelling letters to ask for payment, if you have it in writing that they can't find the original, then this puts you in a very strong position to offer them a very low F&F offer.

 

Debts DO NOT get written off, a debt is a debt, even when it is past it's limitation period, it is still a debt, just can't be enforced, the same as in this case, they have sent you a reconstituted version to show you what your agreement 'would' have looked like, BUT without the original to show a court, there is diddly squat they can do, and they know it.

[ZENTRIX9]

I have submitted claims for ppi and other on this account. If they agree to pay me back can I ask for it to be paid into my non HSBC bank account or by cheque? I dont want them to knock it off the balance they are chasing. Any views?

[ZENTRIX9]

You mention offering them a very low F&F offer. The amount they are chasing is approx £10,000. What do you think is a very low offer? Not that I am going to, I just wondered.

[dj1971]

Hi Zentrix,

 

Yes you can have the refund paid directly to you by any means you see fit. They are only allowed to take any arrears that are outstanding on the account, the rest you decide how it is made.

 

I suggest you write and tell them how you would like any refund to be paid, otherwise they may well just pay it to themselves.

 

DJ

[Bazooka Boo]

A tenner?............

 

If their paperwork is not in order then I would start at say 10%, then each time they refuse reduce it by 1% untill they get the hang of the game..

[ZENTRIX9]

I have received a letter from HSBC about my SAR request and my cheque for £10 returned!. This is what it says.

"Unfortunately, your letter has not been sgned and as such, we are unable to act upon your instructions at the present time.

A data controller os not obliged to supply any information under subsection (1) of the act, unless he has received a request in writing. Further, a data controller is not obliged to comply with a reques under this section unless he is supplied with suchinformation as he may reasonably require in order to satisfy himself as to the identity of the person making the request and to locate the information which that person seeks.

The bank policy is to establish the identity of the customer via a signature such that it can be compared with any other document (e.g. Application ) that we may hold.

 

Your cheque for the statutory fee of £10 is enclosed; please ensure this is returned to us with a fresh, signed instruction. We will then undertake a search of our records."

 

What a load of crap! The cheque was signed by me, on my business account as me T/A *****, and they posted it back to me! So if they didnt think it was me why did they return it to me!!!!

They are playing for time cos they have already admitted in writing that they cant find it. What do I do now?

I dont want to send them a signed letter.

[cerberusalert]

Two things you can do, the first send it back and tell them you will pick up the the information from a local branch of the HSBC & the other is make a complaint to the ICO because if they've been in regular contact with you at that address the ICO believe that is adequate evidence that you are who you say you are.

[Bazooka Boo]

It might be the "Banks Policy" but it isn't a legal requirement. A classic case of them dragging their heels in this, I was trying to find the precise piece of legislation which states that correspondence and requests do not require a signature, but due to a computer meltdown I had to revert to factory default and lost the lot.

As Cerberusalert says, the very best you should offer these fools is that you will collect the documents in person from your local branch where you will gladly show you DL or passport, in the meantime, due to their failure to understand consumer law, you will happily be reporting them to the ICO.

[ZENTRIX9]

Thanks I will report them. They have caused me a lot of sh*t over the last couple of years too. Our family business had to be put into liquidation 2 months after they convunced us to Invoice finance with them. They willingly took our personal guarantee from our accounts. My mom was the main guarantor. They took the money from her account on the Friday, she received a letter on the Saturday saying that they were going to take the money from her account on the Monday. That caused a lot of upset and stress to my mom as my dad had died from cancer less than 12 months earlier. I hate banks!!! If I can screw them for 1 penny I will do it. They tied our other business into the invoice financing as well so when the 1st was liquidated it took the other one too. Its took 2 years to pull myself out of it and now I think I can see a light at the end of the tunnel, especially since I have been on here. Its helped me without a doubt and given me back my confidence.

[ZENTRIX9]

I sent a CCA request on 14/7/10 and got a reply on 28/7/10 from HSBC.

 

 

They sent me a reconstituted copy of my credit application form which was hand written by someone at HSBC

and the prescribed terms are missing.

 

 

I put the account into dispute and sent them the letter on 18/08/10.

 

 

I received a letter dated 19/8/10 telling me they had sent me what I asked for and that was their last word on the matter.

 

 

I received a letter dated 25/8/10 which was a default notice.

 

 

I received a letter dated 1/9/10 along with all my credit card statements offering to pay me any charges back on my account

if I signed to take no further action.

 

 

This letter also stated "With regards to your request for a true copy of the credit agreement, we have been unable to locate this at present"

 

 

Sent SAR request 9/9/10.

 

 

On 15/9/10 I faxed 2 letters regarding PPI claim and a claim under section 75.

 

 

I received a letter dated 17/9/10 returning my SAR leter and the cheque saying the letter wasnt signed.

 

 

I resent the SAR letter signed with a line through it on 20/9/10. Waiting for their next move.

 

They sent me a reconstituted copy of a CCA document they admit they dont have.

 

 

By sending me this reconstituted copy without the original document

that they should have by law to make a copy of are they sending me a fraudulant document?

 

 

Can I threaten court action if they dont stop chasing me or write it off?

[rdm2006]

Under CCA Section 77/78 they ARE allowed to do this (regretfully), however, you can send a CPR 31.16 (Pre Action Protocol) with this they are required to send you the actual copy which they intend to rely upon in court so no copy - no case, although that wont stop them trying...............8-)

[firstship]

rdm2006..........

 

 

....is correct they can send a recon agreement,

 

 

this is not fraudulent,

 

 

however without the original signed agreement,

 

 

it is unlikely to hold up should it go to court,

 

 

and what is more you say they have put in writing "at present they cannot locate a copy of the agreement"......

 

 

...Write to them along the lines of

 

 

" until such times as my CCA request is fulfilled,

the account will remain in dispute and further until my SAR is fulfilled the account will remain in breach,......

 

 

......................they are unlikely to write of this account ,

 

 

it will probably end up with Metropolitan their in house DC......

 

 

.........,wait and see what their next move will be........

 

 

...my own experience with HSBC is they are persistent,and annoying but beatable........................FS

[rdm2006]

If it should go to court - put them to strict proof of the T&C's - if they don't have CCA's for that period then how will they prove that lol

[johnnymitch]

It may be prudent to check your Credit Rating too , Zentrix9... if they issued a Default Notice ........ if they have trashed your Credit Rating for a non-existent debt when the account was 'In Dispute' , it could be worth threatening them with legal action if they don't rectify it .