ESA Atos Assessment - my turn yet again

[eliotnpt]

I have a feeling the DWP and Atos must really like seeing me. As my previous posts over the years on this forum show, they can't seem to get enough of my forms and my assessments.

 

Towards the end of last year I received a letter saying that I had been moved from the Support Group to WRAG. No ESA50 completed, no assessment, nothing. I telephoned to request the initial interview be conducted over the phone and, a short while later, was given a phone back saying an error had been made, I was to remain in the Support Group and unless there were any changes in my circumstances I only needed to contact the Department early next year (2014) to ensure that I was being transferred to Pension Credits.

 

My relief was short-lived since in February I received yet another ESA50 - making 4 ESA50 forms completed, one face-to-face Atos assessment (failed, Support Group on appeal), one telephone call to say no further contact with Department needed until 2014. The ESA50 was completed, typed, additional pages added, everything being almost the same as all the other forms I have submitted - other than the addition of an extra illness that has come to light.

 

From February until June I heard nothing, and then have the Atos "invitation" for face-to-face assessment. Although this time the first appointment has been made in my town, they have not given me the time that it has been stressed I need nor have they taken any notice of the times my carer will not be available this month (a full diary of the dates he is not available was submitted with the ESA50).

 

So now I need to get that appointment altered and go through the whole process again.

 

I find it interesting to see on the forum how many people are told how long they will have between assessments. The Department has always refused to tell me, saying 3 months between each Atos review is "normal". I do have a suspicion that, because I was failed by Atos 2 years ago and had Support Group status initiated on review, these frequent ESA50 forms and requests for assessments have very little to do with any actual review period - especially as the illnesses I declare are not curable in the normal sense of the term, they will be with me for life.

 

No doubt others find themselves in the same position with endless demands to complete forms and attend for assessment so I am not the only one. Perhaps I am lucky that I will qualify for Pension Credits in 10 months, no matter what the outcome, I don't have as long to endure before I can be rid of ESA and Atos for good.

 

Also, the form that accompanied my appointment time stated that no taxi fare would be paid unless I obtained a letter from my GP stating it was necessary - and that Atos would not reimburse me the cost of that letter. I do remember reading on an Atos document somewhere on the net 2 years ago a list of illnesses that Atos needed to consider before they called a person for interview. One of those was agoraphobia and a taxi was to be offered in case the person could get to the office by taxi. Does anyone know if this has changed? Is there still a list of ailments that Atos need to refer to before calling people for face-to-face assessment?

 

In the meantime, I start the whole process off once again and report that these last 2 years have probably been the most unendurable of my life with pressures from Atos and related departments that is surely bordering on harassment.

[time4change2]

i know of a few people in my sisters mental health support groups who get assessed every 3/6 months they usually get (to be reassessed in 12 months) on there medical report form ATOS despite being placed in the support group but never seems to be that way

 

.its stressful i know but there is also a lot of other people in the same situation the DWP never get it right and neither do ATOS

[reallymadwoman]

First, I am fairly sure the list of conditions you refer to only applies to DLA.

 

Second, have you asked for your assessment to be audio recorded? If not, asking now will almost certainly mean the assessment is delayed - in my case for 15 months so far but I suspect I am an exception. However anything that might narrow that 10 months has to be worth a try.

 

Finally, ATOS will normally only let you reschedule your appointment once. If you need to do it, I would suggest you put your request in writing rather than do it over the phone and detail exactly which dates your carer is unavailable and any and all things they need to do to accommodate you, even down to the type of chair you need. Send it recorded and email them a copy - there is an email address on their website. The point of this is that if they then offer you another appointment which is unsuitable for any reason you have all the ammunition you need to show 'good cause' for asking for the appointment to be rescheduled again.

[eliotnpt]

Thank you, that is something I had not considered.

After the last fiasco of a face to face assessment I had wondered about having it recorded but I did not request it when I submitted the ESA50 this time.

I will certainly bear in mind what you have said, nice one

[reallymadwoman]

If you ask now to have your assessment recorded it will almost certainly delay things and if they do have to reschedule it won't count as your one chance.

[eliotnpt]

I have been lucky enough to have some very nice people researching for me. I knew I read information somewhere 2 years ago regarding who should be called for a face-to-face interview by ATOS and who should not, also who could "tentatively" be "invited" for interview, where in the case of agoraphobia a taxi can be offered. Okay, this is a small consideration BUT it does not in any way show even the slightest spark of knowledge of agoraphobia as a medical condition. That being said, here is some information on two websites that may be of interest.

 

Both of these websites contain information that was requested under the Freedom of Information Act and so it is quite legal to have the links posted and for people to use the pages for information and research. The first is part of the contract between ATOS and the DWP. It is very long and the section that I am referring to comes around 3/4 of the way down under the heading Medical Conditions and Categories.

http://www.whywaitforever.com/dwpatoscontract.html#MEDICAL-CONDITIONS

 

The second link is also the result of a Freedom of Information Act request and relates to ATOS Doctor's Directive Guides. This page contains a comprehensive list of physical and mental health conditions with an accompanying pdf that can be read in order to see how ATOS and doctors should be regarding at least the health conditions that are included in this list.

 

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/atos_doctors_directive_guides

 

I have given greater thought to the advice given by reallymadwoman (above) suggesting that I apply to have my next face-to-face assessment recorded. Irrespective of any other consideration, I feel this could be highly beneficial. My first assessment with them resulted in an appeal (following which I was placed into the Support Group on departmental review without it reaching the Tribunal), and the bulk of that appeal rested on an entirely false report of the interview by the ATOS doctor, something that I was easily able to prove with a simple medical certificate and pointing out how certain descriptors applied to my own health conditions. For example, the doctor wrote on the medical report that I did not have asthma and it was unlikely that I have ever suffered from asthma. Not bad really considering I have been treated, including in hospital, for asthma since I was 5 years of age.

 

I have yet to read even a fraction of the information on the links I have given here but I am sure they will prove to be useful.

[**Margaret**]

:eliotnpt:

 

My sympathies over the constant reassessments. 'The support group for two years', is a myth. Such statements are mere recommendations from Atos, (sometimes from decision makers or tribunal panels). As you've found out, they can be overridden by Jobcentreplus at any time from three months after a previous assessment. Must admit, I've no idea why Jobcentreplus won't tell you the recommendation. Following an ESA50 and/or a face to face assessment, it's stated on the ESA85/85A report which is available on request, via letter or phone, from your benefit delivery centre.

 

For reasons I've yet to understand, Atos appointments clerks don't routinely get to see ESA50s. Which kinda begs the question, 'what's the point of page 2/3?' I'm echoing the advice you've already been offered about getting a suitable appointment. Apart from being a good idea anyway, getting Atos to change this appointment for an audio recorded one will avert potential problems if you need to change the rearranged appointment for any reason.

 

There's still a list (nowadays much shorter than it used to be) of conditions that require consideration of a home assessment for disability living allowance but it isn't applicable to assessments for employment n support allowance. Full details at;

 

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/esa_medical_conditions_and_requi#incoming-365534

 

Sincerely, Margaret.

Edited June 6, 2013 by **Margaret**

[**Margaret**]

:eliotnpt:

 

Crossed posts!

 

First link in post #6 is a circa 2010 list for disability living allowance.

 

My contributions to CAG were initiated by a long drawn out tribunal over what was said, or more to the point not said, at a personal capability assessment. Reason I'm determined to get my upcoming face to face audio recorded. Waiting for an audio recorder (a year n counting); far less stressful than the preparation and waiting for a tribunal.

 

Margaret.

Edited June 6, 2013 by **Margaret**

[wig82]

hi there right I was awarded support group august 2012

and now I got another esa50 ive all ready sent it back with aload of copys of treatment

I suffer with crohns what a lot worse and anxiety depression gad generalized anxiery disorder

will I need to go to another medical as im having more treatment now than I did last time

and more evidence this time aswell

[eliotnpt]

Wig, I don't think anyone here can actually answer your question. You do not have a medical now for ESA, you have a "face-to-face" assessment, which is a glorified way of saying a medically qualified person will ask you a series of questions and make some minor physical examination of you in order to complete boxes on a questionnaire. Whether you are called for a face-to-face assessment will now be entirely in the hands of whoever receives your ESA50 and deals with it at office level. Although it is very hard to say, all you can do is try to get on with your life as best you can and only concern yourself about the next step if/when you receive a letter from Atos giving you an appointment time.

[fedupandold]

Perhaps I am lucky that I will qualify for Pension Credits in 10 months, no matter what the outcome, I don't have as long to endure before I can be rid of ESA and Atos for good.

 

If you are claiming Income Based ESA, then yes you will be fully entitled to claim Pension Credit and give up your ESA claim without being caught under the deprivation rules.

 

However if you are claiming Contribution Based ESA, you can still claim Pension Credit as a 'top up', but your ESA will have to continue until the date when your State Pension starts. I'm in the latter category. Been claiming Pension Credit for a year or two as well as CB ESA. I have to wait until next year when I will be 65 to close the ESA claim down. The Pension Service warned me that if I closed it down early, I would lose £106.50 a week.

[worried33]

I found out in my case they changed my decision date (after the decision).

 

The guy on the phone was been evasive but in the end I extracted a story what seemed like this.

 

1 - Decision was made to put me in WRAG, 3 months after my WCA 12 months prognosis.

2 - I was moved to SG on on reconsideration when I appealed.

3 - got ESA50 5 months early.

4 - Turns out my claim got rebuilt and decision date moved to WCA date.

 

As I understand it what they did on #4 is illegal. They can do early WCA's, the law only requires them to wait 3 months (found this out also) but I believe its illegal for them to amend decision dates.

[fedupandold]

I found out in my case they changed my decision date (after the decision).

 

The guy on the phone was been evasive but in the end I extracted a story what seemed like this.

 

1 - Decision was made to put me in WRAG, 3 months after my WCA 12 months prognosis.

2 - I was moved to SG on on reconsideration when I appealed.

3 - got ESA50 5 months early.

4 - Turns out my claim got rebuilt and decision date moved to WCA date.

 

As I understand it what they did on #4 is illegal. They can do early WCA's, the law only requires them to wait 3 months (found this out also) but I believe its illegal for them to amend decision dates.

 

A review date is when the DWP decide. A tribunal decision cannot over ride what the DWP want and the DWP can change the date as and when it wants as long as it is more than 3 months from the last decision date.

I had a decision for 3 years in the Support Group, they stuck to that, but they could well have changed it to 3 months if they wanted.

[worried33]

A review date is when the DWP decide. A tribunal decision cannot over ride what the DWP want and the DWP can change the date as and when it wants as long as it is more than 3 months from the last decision date.

I had a decision for 3 years in the Support Group, they stuck to that, but they could well have changed it to 3 months if they wanted.

 

yes but they changed my decision date, thats an entirely different thing to changing review dates.

 

Changing a decision date is like the bank changing transaction dates, its fraud.