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Hi All

 

Looking for advice please:

 

I am a PA on a construction site and had an accident on Tuesday. The fire alarms went off so the whole building was evacuated and we all went to the muster point. (The site is at a major airport and the project is airside). As the building is so large, we were all asked to move back to make space for more people. As myself and a colleague was doing this, I noticed an uncovered earth pit. I told people to be careful and at the time couldn't see anything to cover this over. (The earth pit is around 150mm in diameter).

 

One we had all gotten the all clear to go back into the building, we made our way forwards and I promptly fell down the earth pit! I had completely forgotten about it and with the volume of people it would have been difficult to see.

 

Once I had fallen, I automatically got up and looked down to a pool of blood on the floor, at this point the firemen had seen I had injured myself and came over. He administered first aid and took a look at the wound to my shin and immediately applied pressure and a bandage.

 

At this point a member of the site team put a bollard over the exposed earth pit.

 

An ambulance was called and I was taken to the local A&E where I was treated, cleaned up and the wound was fairly deep and glued back together I also had an x-ray, but they couldn't see any fracture. I then went home.

 

The following day, I was in alot of discomfort and unable to put my full weight on the injured leg. I called in to say I was unable to get in - it's a good 20min walk once through departures then up 6 flights of stairs.

 

On Thursday, my ankle and foot had swollen to an impressive size and so I went and saw my GP who promptly signed me off as unfit to work for 7 days and said that if the swelling hadn't reduced by early next week, I was to go back and be re x rayed. She advised paracetamol and ibruprofen.

 

I called my Employer (HR Director)r - who straight away started talking about RIDDOR and was I unfit for work, or unfit to get to work and mentioned that perhaps I could work from home. I then called my direct Boss, and told him what HR had said, to which he responded - ' well, if **** thinks there is a way around this....'

 

I feel that all they are worried about is reporting it as a RIDDOR. I was then copied in on an email saying that it did not need to be reported as I could carry out my duties from home. - Is this correct?

 

Nobody has mentioned anything about the exposed earth pit other than on the incident report form where it clearly states that the earth pit was exposed after barriers had been moved and not put back the previous week., I have received no apology, but I have received numerous phone calls from HR and H&S manager asking me if there has been any improvement in my injuries,but I feel they are asking purely to see if I can get back sooner.

 

I just feel they are trying to cover this whole thing up!

 

I am also annoyed that I now have to miss out on a concert I was due to go to this evening with my Son (his Birthday present) and cannot go to as I have extreme difficulty in walking. Do you think my Employer would refund the £100 for the tickets??

 

Other people are saying I should make a claim for compensation, just not sure what to do, very cross with the whole situation!

 

Grateful for any advice!

den3371:p

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Extracts from emails regarding my accident:

 

 

 

Mark,

 

I believe this captures everything we discussed.

 

I would like to add one more point – this decision is based upon the specific circumstances around this injury and that den3371's full duties can be undertaken from home (and Roger has allowed her to work like this).

It does not form a precedent upon which future decisions on injuries to office or site based personnel should be made. In all cases, these need to be discussed with Greg or myself.

 

Thanks and regards

 

Martin

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Ladies / gents,

 

I have just been discussing this accident and the associated injuries with Martin ******

On the following basis:

a) den3371 is carrying out her full duties from home;

b) den3371 is taking co-codomol (paracetamol can also be taken if necessary)

c)den3371 does not have a break or fracture;

Then Martin has agreed that this will not be a reportable incident either under*** or HSE guidelines.

Martin is also in agreement that as long as the above remains the case den3371 will be able to return to her duties at her site desk when she is able to do so.

 

However, should den3371 go for an x-ray next week (due to continued swelling to the ankle) which shows a break / fracture or den3371 has to be prescribed stronger

medication associated with this accident and injury, then this stance will be rescinded.

 

Martin:

den3371:p

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http://www.hse.gov.uk/contact/workplace-complaints.htm This is a good start point if you feel that they are brushing you off.

 

They are in deep s*it and they know it. The rules of RIDDOR are quite strict

 

From the HSE RIDDOR website:

 

"Incapacitation means that the worker is absent or is unable to do work that they would reasonably be expected to do as part of their normal work."

 

The key word is "OR" In my opinion, despite being able to carry out your duties at home, you are still absent and your company has a legal obligation to record and report. Did this go in an accident book?

 

As a construction site, there should be absolutely no open pits or earthworks that anyone can fall into. The hole MUST be covered with a secure cover and / or demarcation barriers. The HSE will take a very dim view if there is any sign of a cover up OR evidence of victimisation if you bring this to light by yourself.

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http://www.hse.gov.uk/contact/workplace-complaints.htm This is a good start point if you feel that they are brushing you off.

 

They are in deep s*it and they know it. The rules of RIDDOR are quite strict

 

From the HSE RIDDOR website:

 

"Incapacitation means that the worker is absent or is unable to do work that they would reasonably be expected to do as part of their normal work."

 

The key word is "OR" In my opinion, despite being able to carry out your duties at home, you are still absent and your company has a legal obligation to record and report. Did this go in an accident book?

 

As a construction site, there should be absolutely no open pits or earthworks that anyone can fall into. The hole MUST be covered with a secure cover and / or demarcation barriers. The HSE will take a very dim view if there is any sign of a cover up OR evidence of victimisation if you bring this to light by yourself.

 

Totally agree on the above, the true reason for the accident reporting structure is to find a Route Cause Analise of why the accident happened, and put control measures in place to stop it happening again

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All

 

Thank you.

 

They filled out an incident report form (rang me at home to fill out details) which is a form the Company use whenever there is an accident.

 

I have not seen an accident reporting book, nor been asked to sign it. I'll ask if an entry has been made.

 

The end result that I want is that it is reported properly, because of the way they have been acting, clearly an Employee's welfare is not of a priority. I have recently seen the Board Report which is due to be submitted this week - under the accident reporting section, there is no mention of my accident. The next Board meeting is on 6th June - my accident was on 29th May - surely, there should be an entry as with other incidents of my accident?

den3371:p

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Your employer is not breaching riddor as of yet, i could explain in great detail as i know these regs pretty well but i won't

 

If you return to full duties within 7 days (at home or work) then they do not need to report it, even if they trigger riddor and do not report it i can tell you with 100% accuracy it won't matter a jot to you personally.

 

Make sure you get a copy of the accident report and within the next three years if you lodge a personal injury claim it may be part of a solicitors case but most of the time the HSE don't really care and a solicitor will simply use it to add weight to the negligence claim.

 

Best advise i can give is concentrating on getting back to work, you push this issue your employer will push you and the outcome simply isn't worth it

 

as far as stats in meetings most employers report accidents in arrears so it may be next time or it may not, again it really serves you little purpose either way.

 

if your employer is dealing with this properly they will concentrate on sorting the hazard out

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I am interested in your comment atlas

 

QUOTE

 

even if they trigger riddor and do not report it i can tell you with 100% accuracy it won't matter a jot to you personally.

 

 

i am concentrating more on the recording of accidents and an employees right to register it as an industrial injury with the DWP,

 

Along with that the social security act on payments in relation to industrial injuries and the recordings of those injuries

 

The Social Security (Claims and Payments) Regulations 1979 (as amended)

Edited by squaddie
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it was an accident they do happen, you fell it was not covered up, ask for the ticket money as a gesture of good will but they may say no because it could be construed as accepting liability, do you want compensation? or what? if it hadn't been there long and you only just bought it to their attention and they acted on your info straight away I think your employers have done a reasonable job, not perfect but then again who is? they may have made no apologies either because they cant ,liability again tthey may have been warned not to.

If I have been of any help, please click on my star and let me know, thank you.

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Agree on the above, no employer in their right minds will accept any form of responsibility

 

On a side not

 

An employer is prohibited under law to prohibit you recording an accident, and be given a copy of that report

 

IT IS A LEGAL REQUIREMENT

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Assisted Blonde

 

Yes, I appreciate accidents happen - of course they do, but this is a Construction Site, with very strict rules and regulations.

 

I pointed out that the earth pit was uncovered to other people during the evacuation, we weren't even supposed to have been in that area as there should have been a barrier to cordon that particular area, but works were carried out the weekend before and the barrier not put back. We moved back so to make space for others coming out of the building. The earth pit was filled in with concrete the day after my accident.

 

They can't deny liability as it is clearly stated in the incident report they filled out.

 

I wanted to know if they could withold reporting the accident as a RIDDOR if they stated I could work from home.I have been signed off by my GP, for 7 days which takes it into the 7 day reporting period.

den3371:p

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May i ask what is your usual work routine

 

what are your normal working duties at your place of employment

 

DOES THE DOCTORS FIT NOT EXCUSE YOU FROM ALL DUTIES, OR WITH ALLOWANCES MADE

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May i ask what is your usual work routine

 

what are your normal working duties at your place of employment

 

DOES THE DOCTORS FIT NOT EXCUSE YOU FROM ALL DUTIES, OR WITH ALLOWANCES MADE

 

I am PA to the Project Director. My duties are to support him in his day to day tasks. Taking minutes at meetings, arranging travel, meetings, collating information for reports and distribution, letters, expenses, post etc.

 

The fit note says I am unfit for work, due to injury sustained at work - no allowances made

den3371:p

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If your doctor states you are unfit for work, that means all work, including any home working

 

This must then be reported as a RIDDOR as it is a notifiable event

and takes you over 7 days

 

Accidents on building sites are a serious no, no

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Agree with reporting the accident and yes I appreciate it is a construction site although again not always perfect, the evacuation wasn't foreseen and during it they couldn't have covered it up I think report it but don't expect too much if anything, hope you are feeling a bit better now

If I have been of any help, please click on my star and let me know, thank you.

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I am interested in your comment atlas

 

QUOTE

 

even if they trigger riddor and do not report it i can tell you with 100% accuracy it won't matter a jot to you personally.

 

 

i am concentrating more on the recording of accidents and an employees right to register it as an industrial injury with the DWP,

 

Along with that the social security act on payments in relation to industrial injuries and the recordings of those injuries

 

The Social Security (Claims and Payments) Regulations 1979 (as amended)

 

From what i have read the employer has it on the button at the moment even if they are playing they "this is the way we want things to run" card for riddor, if OP is signed off, unable to do 100% duties for more than 7 days not including day of injury, it's a riddor but most of you know this already.

 

There is a record of the accident in the email, they have stated they will review if conditions change and have accepted an accident has occurred. The employer must keep a record which can be done electronically as long as the information conforms to the BI 510 form, all that said the OP should be asking for a copy as i would expect with anything more than a very small employer

 

 

Employers do not have to report all accidents the DWP and the law and forms are there in the main for employees to lodge with them (from experience), that said DWP Ind Inj benefit does not really cater for people off work for as it stands; less than a week, it does not apply to cuts without even a fracture, IIB in the main only comes into force for terminal conditions caused by lead, asbestos, carcinogens or seriously debilitating injuries.

 

I know of three people who got it in the last 10 years, 2 are now dead and the other had his arm crushed by a reversing HGV

 

I'm not saying the employer is able to ignore the regs, only that they may and my experience of this is the injured parties brief adds it to a claim (not financially but for weight) and the HSE add it to a prosecution if that ever happens.

 

I've been involved in cases where riddor was not done, i've been involved in claims where the employer never even registered the accident, in my personal experience the HSE do not do too much with RIDDOR unless it's tagging it to a case or just ringing up querying the issue. (on a side note it will be interesting to see if this changes due to the new FFI cost recovery regs and a non riddor will probably be classed as a material breach meaning they can charge for their time)

 

 

 

HSE's own words

RIDDOR data needs to be interpreted with care because it is known that non-fatal injuries are substantially under-reported. Currently, it is estimated that just over half of all such injuries to employees are actually reported, with the self-employed reporting a much smaller proportion.

 

The OP has a possible claim for negligence under tort but non reporting is between the employer and hse, if they have form for non reporting with the hse then they may come down on them but my point is, unless the OP ends up lodging a claim it really isn't worth pursuing, only a copy of the accident report is worth it

 

The only time i'd advise reporting the employer is if they refused to acknowledge the accident or if I was a TU safety rep and could evidence a trend of non reporting, not just a one off.

 

My advise is not based on what should happen but what does happen in my experience with accidents and claims

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