Court Summons for repossession received today

[wheresmyhairgone]

Hi

I received a court summons today from my mortgage company. I have been in arrears this year but i am paying it off.

 

My mortgage balance was £71000 in November 2012 and now according to the court papers it has shot up to nearly £74000 plus they have also added £270 charges and £411 solicitors fees.

 

It seems to me that the mortgage company know their chances off winning are slim and this is just an excuse to get these excessive charges legally added to my account and all it has cost them is £100 court fees.

 

My question is when i,m at court would i be able to try and convince the judge that the case should never have gone to court and get all these stupid charges squashed.

 

Thanks in advance for any replies.

[wheresmyhairgone]

Hi Again

Sorry about the first post, I posted it last night in abit of a hurry.

 

I`m after some help filling in the court summons.

 

Brief outline is:

 

In January 2013 I started having difficulty paying my mortgage. I rang my lender straight away and explained the situation. They wanted to tie me down to a payment agreement but i,m self employed and explained i couldn`t promise a weekly/mounthly payment plan because i couldn`t depend on my customers paying the invoices when they were due. I told them that i would pay the mortgage and/or arrears when i could.

 

i have been making payments and admitedly they have been erattic, My arrears are at this moment are £1076.00

 

on May 17th i paid £150.00

on May 20th i received a letter from solicitors demanding that i pay the mortgage in full.

 

on May 20th I rang mortgage company stating that i could now offer them a payment agreement of min of £150.00 per week, this would cover my mortgage plus £25 per week towards the arrears.

 

on May 24th i paid £150.00

 

on May 25th i received a letter from them stating they were refusing my offer because i could not afford it.

 

on May 30th i received four letters from solicitors stating that they had received a court date for repossession, but i could avoid the court appearance if i rang them and offered an acceptable repayment plan. those four letters plus the earlier one cost me £300, they even charged me £50 = vat for the letter containing the invoice.

 

on May 31st i paid £150.00

 

I was hoping that someone could advise/help me with a letter to send with the court papers stating all the above and to tell the court that this should never have got to the court stage because i was already paying them weekly.

 

I don`t know if its possible or indeed if the Judge is able to Quash the solicitors and lenders fee`s which have arisen because of this court claim which in my humble opinion is just an exercise for the lenders to apply more fees to my account ( my mortgage balance is now £3000 more then it was in November 2012) and an oppotunity for solicitors to jump on the gravy train.

[Ell-enn]

Hi there, have a read of this guide http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?325527-CAG-guide-Are-you-facing-eviction-or-repossession it will show you how to write a statement to go with Q27 of the form. I will check back later to see if you need any further assistance.,

[wheresmyhairgone]

Thank you, I have been having a look around the repossession forum and was hoping you notice my Bat sign in the sky and would pick up my post.

[wheresmyhairgone]

Hi Ell-enn I have a question if you don`t mind.

 

1. Is the Judge able ( if I can convince him that this should never have got to the court stage) to squash the solictors and lenders fees that have arisen from this summons. I am already paying a repayment plan, the lender wont except my offer stating that i cant afford it even though i have not missed a payment.

 

2. Can the lender charge me a EARLY SETTLEMENT FEE even though they are trying to force me to pay the mortgage early. I have reread the claim and it looks like the extra £3000 that has appeared is an Early settlement fee.

 

3. It looks like the solictors don`t want this to get to court, they have requested i ring them and arrange a repayment plan. i don,t want to speak to them because they are charging me £60 everytime they send me a letter and this is being added to my arrears. I first had contact with them 2 weeks ago and so far their bill to me is £511. If i ignore them and just deal with the court summons would it be frowned upon by the Judge bearing in mind that i am already paying the lender £150.00 per week.

 

4. Filling in the Budget form is problematic, as stated before i am self employed so do not have a regular income. I can fill in my wifes wages but then I end up with my outgoings being more then my incomings.

 

Sorry if some of this doesnt make sense, i,m not very good at putting what im thinking into words. Left school at age 15 without exams ect. ect. !!!!

[wheresmyhairgone]

Hi Again Ell-enn or anyone esle who might have answers ( I understand that Ell-enn does have a live outside C.A.G and may not see this for a while)

 

I`ve been up all night reading other threads and I think I have the answer to my first question.

 

I think i,m ok with doing a statement.

 

It`s the budget sheet i,m having problems with. I do have other debts but they are being dealt with via C.A.B.

 

I have got rid of my landline phone, Wi-Fi ( no arrears). I have declared my car as S.O.R.N and had prepayment meters installed for my gas and electric ( no arrears).

 

The only regular money I have coming in is my wifes wages ( she works part time) + Tax Credits which amounts to £240.00 per week

 

The mortgage company will not except my offer of paying £150.00 per week because they believe we can`t live on £90 per week even though we have been paying them that for the last 4 weeks plus 2 payments of £400 and 2 payments of £100 when I have managed to get some work.

 

I want to put all that information on the statement but at the same time I don`t want the statement to start looking like a book. Will I be able to explain the above to the Judge on the court day instead?

[citizenB]

Aside from the fact they are adding charges (which you should be able to reclaim) you should stay off the telephone at this stage of the game - you need to have them put everything in writing in order to protect yourself should this end up in court.

[citizenB]

There is a budget sheet in the 2nd post of the link that Ellen provided for you in post 3 of this thread

[wheresmyhairgone]

Hi citizenB Thanks for your reply

 

I,m not talking to them on the phone anymore, they have got the Legal leeches involved and I have a repossession court appearance early July.

 

After reading other threads i,m quite confident they will not win.

 

The thing i,m concerned about is when i send in my defence and payment offer £150 per week will be excepted.

I am currently paying that anyway even though the lender has sent me a letter turning down my payment offer.

 

The scenario I can see is me leaving the court paying no different from when i walked in but the solicitors firm £100`s richer ( so far their invoice is £511 which includes £300 for 5 letters ) and the lenders £1000`s of pounds richer ( my mortgage balance has risen £3000)

[citizenB]

It would need Ellen to confirm, but it is my understanding that you can reclaim some, if not all of the charges they have been adding to the account.

[Lea_HTH]

Hi Ell-enn I have a question if you don`t mind.

 

1. Is the Judge able ( if I can convince him that this should never have got to the court stage) to squash the solictors and lenders fees that have arisen from this summons. I am already paying a repayment plan, the lender wont except my offer stating that i cant afford it even though i have not missed a payment.

 

2. Can the lender charge me a EARLY SETTLEMENT FEE even though they are trying to force me to pay the mortgage early. I have reread the claim and it looks like the extra £3000 that has appeared is an Early settlement fee.

 

3. It looks like the solictors don`t want this to get to court, they have requested i ring them and arrange a repayment plan. i don,t want to speak to them because they are charging me £60 everytime they send me a letter and this is being added to my arrears. I first had contact with them 2 weeks ago and so far their bill to me is £511. If i ignore them and just deal with the court summons would it be frowned upon by the Judge bearing in mind that i am already paying the lender £150.00 per week.

 

4. Filling in the Budget form is problematic, as stated before i am self employed so do not have a regular income. I can fill in my wifes wages but then I end up with my outgoings being more then my incomings.

 

Sorry if some of this doesnt make sense, i,m not very good at putting what im thinking into words. Left school at age 15 without exams ect. ect. !!!!

 

1. The charges applied for legal fees are contractual - the court can only make an order that they not be added to the mortgage account or the security if the legal action was frivolous or malicious. (From the information you provided that is definitely not the case - even if it were, depending on the judge even if he thinks court action could have been avoided he/she may be reluctant to interfere with the contract itself.)

 

2. The ERC should not be included in the amount stated on the particulars of claim - not unless judgment is given against you. Point out to the judge that it has been included and is not actually money owed by you at this stage.

 

3. The solicitors don't care if it goes to court or not - they have no personal investment in this like you do. They are entitled to their fees according to your contract and unless, as per no.1 above, there has been untoward behaviour, then you will have to pay the legal costs of the case and the judge doesn't order that - as I said, it's contractual.

 

4. Your irregular payment history is the issue in this case. Whilst you have offered and stuck to your £150 per week payment offer, it has not been accepted (the court is likely to accept that you pay CMI plus X towards the arrears and won't be fussed that it is being paid weekly), but the lender will argue that you are self-employed and on the face of the regular income into your household the mortgage is unaffordable. Lack of affordability is one of the factors all judges look at - so you need to fill in your budget sheet to show exactly how you manage on £90 per week for you and your family and there is no point in focussing on monies from self-employment which aren't provable or regular, make reference to them if need be, but preferably only the ones you can actually quantify, i.e. money you WILL make, not 'might' or 'could'.

[wheresmyhairgone]

Thanks lea_HTH

 

Can i ask one more question please:

 

Last week I received 4 letters from their solicitors all on the same day, one addressed to me, one addressed to my wife, one addresed to " the Occupier" and one containing a copy of an invoice.

 

The invoice included £300 for the 4 letters ( £50+ vat x 4)

 

I understand the two letters for my wife and I, but the one addresed to " the occupier " and charging £60 for sending me a copy of an invoice. Is that normal practice?

 

Also I have received another letter from solicitors which is confusing me. It say`s I can avoid the stress of court if i ring them and discuss a payment plan.

 

Bearing in mind that I have already offered a payment plan which their clients have declined based on the fact that i cannot afford it, are they therefore expecting me to offer a lower payment plan or is it ( as I suspect) a generic letter sent by some who doesn,t know the facts of the case and has just boosted their coffers by another £60?

[Lea_HTH]

Offering a payment plan doesn't mean it will be accepted, particularly when the income and expenditure doesn't support it (which appears to be the case from what you have written in this thread), therefore court action was an inevitability based on their assumption that affordability is an issue. As you owe so little in arrears, the court are likely to accept your payment plan - and if I were representing you I would put to the judge that this should be an adjournment on terms, rather than a suspended possession order. But even then, there is very little that can be done to stop the costs of the legal action given that it was undertaken legitimately.

 

To answer your question - they can send multiple letters out, and invoices, but if you believe them to be unfair, then you can write to the mortgagee and complain about it - the likelihood is that they will refund at least one of those charges, though the letters to your wife, you and the occupiers are standard.

 

How much is your monthly instalment if the arrears are only just over 1k and you are paying £650 per month (that's the 150 x 52 / 12) and £108 of that is towards the arrears? Are you saying you are only 2 months in arrears with the mortgage? If yes, then they shouldn't be taking you to court at all as you should have at least 3 months of arrears before court proceedings are instigated.

 

I think you need to provide more information.

 

1. How much exactly are the arrears?

 

2. How much is the current monthly instalment?

 

3. How many years and months exactly are left on the loan?

 

4. Are there are loans secured on the property?

 

5. Is this the main mortgage?

[wheresmyhairgone]

Sorry I didn,t notice your reply, I was reading other threads on the subject.

 

I suppose technically i was 3 months behind, my payments were:

 

January 1st i missed payment Amount Due = £489.91 = arrears £489.91

February 1st I paid £500 Amount Due = £484.25 = arrears £474.16

March 1st I missed payment Amount Due = £484.25 = arrears £958.41

April 1st I paid £400 Amount Due = £483.90 = arrears £1042.31

May 1st I missed payment Amount due = £483.90 = arrears £1526.21

May 17th paid £150.00 arrears £1376.21

May 24th paid £150.00 arrears £1226.21

May 31st paid £150.00 arrears £1076.21

June 1st missed payment.

 

The current monthly instalment is £483.90

 

15yrs 5mths left on mortgage

 

No other Loans secured on property

 

Yes this is my main and only mortgage.

 

I have recently found out that my original mortgage lender has sold my mortgage to I think J P MORGAN but my original lender is still servicing the mortgage I.E collecting the payments.

 

The claiment on my summons is the original lender and not J P Morgan, is that ok?

 

I checked Land Registry and original lender is still named.

 

I have managed to secure some work this month and will be able to pay a large chunk of the arrears if not all, but the terms of my invoices are " payment due within 30 days " and in this climate i,m finding that most firms are taking 30 days to pay. So it will mean I won`t be paid before the Court day.

 

To be honest I get the feeling when talking to them that they are not interested in me getting back on track with my mortgage.

 

I may be getting cynical in my old age but I think they are more interested in getting my home, so that they can balance their books?

Edited June 2, 2013 by wheresmyhairgone

[Lea_HTH]

So your arrears are actually £1560.11 as you have to include the missed payment on 1st June. They're still not horrendous and so long as you can continue to pay the £150 per week, you should be all right.

 

Your CMI is £483.50. £150 per week calculated over the year works out at £650 per month - this means you are paying £166.10 per month towards the arrears, which means they will be cleared within 10 months, which, given the length of your mortgage is more than reasonable. You could ask the judge to adjourn on terms of CMI + £166.10 (i.e. £150 per week) and ask that he not give a suspended possession order on the property (which is precisely what the mortgagee will be asking for as they will not get outright possession for the level of arrears if you can show you can afford to pay ongoing).

 

The change of lender isn't really relevant as it's a business decision and not one that affects the control or day to day running of your mortgage.

 

My advice would be to change your payment terms for your customers.

 

Your 'cynicism' is more like paranoia. It's a common theme on these threads, people think there is some personal vendetta against them or that the mortgagee is wanting to 'balance their books' or something similar. No, all they want is for you to repay the money you borrowed according to the contract you borrowed it under. It really is that simple in virtually all cases of mortgage arrears.

[wheresmyhairgone]

Thank You Lea_HTH

 

Yes of course your right, I was abit angry about being treated like this after 9 years of paying my mortgageon time every month. After a weekend of reading other threads I have calmed down.

 

I need to seperate the mortgage arrears from the solicitors and lenders fees ( i was annoyed because the fees were putting me further in debt). I can sort the fees at a later date in another court on another day if need be.

 

I can`t change my payment terms, it is the norm for the industry I work in. I,ve already had to drop my rates to compete, which means i,m earning less now then I was ten years ago. I,m rambling again sorry.

 

Thanks for your help, and I will report back early July with the outcome of my court appearence.

[wheresmyhairgone]

Hi

I have just been looking to fill in my defence and budget form online, my wife and I have got a summons each but we are both named on summons.

 

Bit confused, do I fill in both budget forms with our combined incomings and outgoings ?

[Ell-enn]

It's OK to fill in one set of incomings and outgoings just put both names at the top, same with the N11M defence form - you can add the other name under the first in pen.

 

Alternatively you can enter a statement and a budget sheet as the example shown in this guide http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?325527-CAG-guide-Are-you-facing-eviction-or-repossession

[wheresmyhairgone]

Hi Ell-enn

 

I can only reply to the claim online, i,m out off the country (working not holiday) from tomorrow morning until 15th June and i,m under the impression that I only have 14days to reply to the summons. Also the court involves a 50mile round trip and I have no car.

 

I phoned the court earlier today and was told that treat the summons as seperate ( we have each been sent a seperate username and password to fill in the online defence and budget forms.).

 

She said if we don`t both do separate defence and budget forms then the Judge will assume that one of us wants the house repossessed.

 

I did find that strange because we are both named on summons i.e Giveusyourhouse Mortgages v Mr. NoIwont 1st defendent and Mrs. NoIwont 2nd defendent.

 

I,m just checking because I don`t want to make mistakes.

[Ell-enn]

OK, best to follow the court advice if you're filling in on line - will you be back in the country to attend the hearing ?

[wheresmyhairgone]

Yes I will be back for the hearing, it`s not until 9th july.

[Lea_HTH]

The court staff are wrong - nor should they be offering any kind of advice that could be construed as legal advice (telling people what to file in response and stating what the judge would think if they don't do it, is legal advice), that is a criminal offence.

 

You can file one defence, with both your name and your wife's name on the paperwork - just ensure you include both names and the case number (will be on the claim form and the particulars of claim). If you are doing witness statements, then you do individual ones as you each sign your own with a statement of truth - so they should be individual, but a defence to possession does not need to be in duplicate if it's the same defence.

[Ell-enn]

Thanks LeaH, that's what I thought you could do.

[wheresmyhairgone]

Ok thank you, and I would like to apologise for something I said in an earlier post.

 

I,ve realised that some of you that are giving me advise are probably in the Legal Profession and giving your advice in your own time and for free. When I used the phrase " Legal Leeches " I was a tad angry and I apologise for that stupid statement.

[BornThisWay]

Lea_TH I am a huge fan of the advice you give on here but I have to disagree with your comment:

 

Your 'cynicism' is more like paranoia. It's a common theme on these threads, people think there is some personal vendetta against them or that the mortgagee is wanting to 'balance their books' or something similar. No, all they want is for you to repay the money you borrowed according to the contract you borrowed it under. It really is that simple in virtually all cases of mortgage arrears.

 

It is of course absolutely true that lenders are perfectly entitled to demand that individuals stick to the contractural terms under which they obtained their loan. However, there is a vast difference in the approach of different lenders in this regard and I do not believe this is unrelated to their wish to reduce their 'toxic' mortgages.

 

A large majority of the attempted repossessions on here are from sub-prime lenders, many of whom bundled into the mortgage market at a time when house prices were going through the roof, and they were quite happy to lend anything to anyone.

 

You don't have to work in the industry (I do!) to know that these lenders, or more likely their parent company, are now terrified of their own shadow as house prices fall and they have a definite mandate to try and get out of the sub prime market (this is not just people with credit problems but the self employed, etc.).

 

My own experience with Accord bears this out. I self certified and had minor credit problems. I have never been more than £5,000 in arrears and always less than six months. Yet they have taken me to Court every single time I fell a Penny behind with the repayments, even though they have put their rates up three times since base rate has been 0.5%. I have tens of thousands of Pounds of equity in the house.

 

When I asked why they were so hard on me they said that I am 'a risk'. Which says it all. All the lenders want to reduce risk. The way to do that is to get rid of as many risky customers as possible.

 

As such I really do not think it is paranoia. I honestly believe that the Halifax or a major lender would have been much more lenient. The fringe lenders want out, and they don't care how they go about it.

 

For myself, I now have arrears of less than £1,000 and should be free from the problem in a few months. In return they have sent me to the edge of despair, treated me like something they have trodden in, and continue to charge me nearly 8%.

 

I wish to God I could remortgage and get away from them, but there is no chance of that while I have this arrears history. It is not exaggeration to say that this company have made my life hell.

 

Paranoia? No. The truth.

Edited June 5, 2013 by BornThisWay