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      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
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      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Spain's Ehic refusal prompts legal action from European Commission


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British insurance firms lodge complaints as holidaymakers in Spain are told to reclaim cost of health care from their insurer

 

The European Commission is taking legal action against Spain after hospitals refused treatment to British holidaymakers carrying a European health insurance card (Ehic).

 

Holidaymakers are advised to take an Ehic on their travels, giving them peace of mind that they will be entitled to free healthcare in public hospitals in any of the 27 EU member countries, as well as Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway and Switzerland. While British travellers are not entitled to the same free treatments on offer at the NHS, they are able to access the treatment availble to local residents.

 

However, the commission has received hundreds of complaints about Spain from holidaymakers who have been told to reclaim the cost of treatment from their travel insurer, or forced to cover it themselves.

 

A number of leading British insurance companies have lodged official complaints as they are being left to foot the bill for treatment they should not have to pay for – and their increased costs are being passed on to holidaymakers in the form of increased premiums.

 

The commission has requested information on the issue from the Spanish government, which has two months to respond. There have been reports of similar incidents in Greece and Portugal, but it is not clear if the commission is investigating these as well.

 

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2013/may/30/spain-ehic-refusal-european-commission

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Many parts of Spain are bankrupt. Pharmacies in the Valencia area had not been paid for drugs they had prescribed and were running low on supplies as a result. There are also stories about non Spanish EU citizens who live in Spain being refused treatment, some being retired UK citizens who have returned to the UK for treatment.

 

This is what happens when you spend billions on infrastructure projects, without thinking about how you are going to have sustained income to pay for it all. Around the Valencia area, there are loads of lovely shiny new developments, but with the current economic climate, they are not generating the income potential that was expected.

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This is not just an issue in Spain. I posted a while ago about a NHS worker (and I heard this from an NHS insider who treated the patient) who was asked for their credit card after a ski-ing accident in France. The hospital were not interested in the EHIC.

 

It is easier and cheaper for foreign hospitals to ask for payment up front rather than filling out loads of forms to claim it back later - and you can't blame them. Our NHS, in contrast, treats anyone, EHIC or not, and has a poor record of recouping money owed. Think of that the next time you or your loved one are denied some life-extending drug or hanging out on a trolley in A&E waiting for a bed.

 

The NHS has to make changes and fast.

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There are EU regulations. It doesn't matter if the hospitals are bankrupt. Spain is being bailed out by the ECB so at least they should honour the law.

"Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for Poundland"

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If you are in severe pain with a double leg fracture and the suggestion is that you will only get pain relief and treatment when you hand over your credit card, a chat with medics about EU regulations is the last thing on your mind.

 

The only reason that this subject has come to the fore - and I suspect that there are many British nationals with similar stories from other EU countries - is because the insurance companies are having to fork out on a grand scale. Our politicians have almost certainly known about this for an age and have done what they always do (unless it effects them) - absolutely nothing.

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I have to say that, when my father spent 2 weeks in hospital in Portugal last October following a heart attack while on a cruise, as soon as we produced his EHIC plastic card to the hospital they removed all costs other than for a series of blood tests - and the same thing happened 2 days later when he was taken back to the hospital.

 

There was no question of us having to pay out for anything except the drugs he was prescribed on discharge - and a months supply of 7 different drugs only cost us about 25€

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  • 3 weeks later...

Well need to mention that thousands of expats live in Spain and they are not registered with the Spanish health system and for some reason they assume an EHIC card is all they need, the EHIC card is for emergency treatment whilst on holiday not for residents, residents are supposed to register with the Spanish system and revoke the right to the NHS, only using an EHIC card in the UK, this causes confusion at many hospitals. As for Spain being bankrupt, well this maybe , but l can assure anyone they have a far better system than the NHS, no wards, all two beds in a room with an en suite bathroom. unlimited visiting times and a family member encouraged to stay the night with a very ill family member. (Very difficult for negligence to occur ) Over the years many expats have come to Spain to get a new hip whilst on holiday and Spain was very lapse with who was and who was not entitled to treatment, now times are hard and they have reviewed the system and mistakes are made, but on the whole very good with only a minority having a problem.

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open visiting was stopped in the UK because it is detrimental to patient care, privacy and dignity.

Patients on wards are better observed by the staff so it is safer. personally I would hate to be stuck in a room with one other who I don't know.

relatives are encouraged to stay in some countries so they can take care of routine tasks that in the UK would be undertaken by professional staff.

 

I have repatriated holidaymakers from spain and the medical standards are significantly below those in the UK

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Hi moggy1968 l am afraid with experience of my mothers patient care, privacy and dignity in the NHS , all l can say there was none, and as for being observed by staff, well that proved totally useless as she fell in the ward, was put back to bed and owing to overdose of blood thinner had bleed to the brain which they noticed 9 hours later, she sadly died 6 days later after being put on Liverpool Pathway. Routine tasks undertaken by professional staff well that's a good one, could not be bothered to feed her properly. As for medical standards significantly below the Uk, l think not.

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Hi moggy1968 l am afraid with experience of my mothers patient care, privacy and dignity in the NHS , all l can say there was none, and as for being observed by staff, well that proved totally useless as she fell in the ward, was put back to bed and owing to overdose of blood thinner had bleed to the brain which they noticed 9 hours later, she sadly died 6 days later after being put on Liverpool Pathway. Routine tasks undertaken by professional staff well that's a good one, could not be bothered to feed her properly. As for medical standards significantly below the Uk, l think not.

 

 

I'm very sorry to hear about your loss and the circumstances behind it. Obviously I don't know the details behind what happened so can't comment on the specifics, but I am sorry.

 

I'm not saying the NHS is a perfect organisation that gets it right everytime. There are a number of challenges the NHS faces today if it is to continue to provide the (generally) excellent service it currently provides. At a grass roots level the ones that immediately spring to mind are nurse training and staffing levels.

 

I have been in healthcare for 24 years now and have seen enormous improvements in that time. When I started the normal wait time in A&E was 10-11 hours, patients died waiting years to be seen for treatable cancers, doctors did what they wanted without recourse or criticism regardless of whether it was right or not.

 

Now, people are expected to use evidence based practice and everyone has the right to challenge the practices of someone else. Never has there been more scrutiny of peoples practice.

 

One thing that has to change though is the current culture of blame. At the moment the Government and the press are pursuing the culture of the witch hunt. We have to accept that sometimes, even good doctors and nurses get it wrong or make a mistake. They're only human after all. The important thing is that we then learn from those mistakes in order to avoid them happening again. At the moment people are too fearful of blame to admit mistakes and learn from them.

 

I absolutely believe though, that as a healthcare system that is free at the point of delivery and available to all regardless of ability to pay the NHS is unrivalled anywhere in the world, and I have seen healthcare systems in many countries. I have seen a number of patients who have come to hospital after treatment on holiday in spain and the standard of treatment and care they have received there I would regard as criminally negligent.

 

We do though, have challenges to face and I hope the service will continue to improve as I have seen it improve over the last 24 years.

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Spain bills the NHS every year for healthcare costs for almost 80000 pensioners at a cost of €3995 per person, the NHS only recoups a fraction of that money from Spain for Spanish citizens living here.

 

Expats are encouraged to take private health insurance, which can be anything up to €1,000 per month for an older couple.

Reciprocal agreements my ass... We treat everybody and ask questions later. As for expats going to Spain for a hip replacement, I'd wager the opposite is the likely scenario.

 

Heard recently of two young Australians who travelled here with severe corony disease, unwell on the plane. Taken straight to hospital and are on the transplant waiting list

Edited by scotgal68

scotgal 

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Unfortunately I had a very bad experience with a NHS hospital, but l am sure the NHS in most cases offer care second to none. Spain has its problems, but having experienced a stay in hospital in Spain found it excellent, and l must say anyone paying £1000 a month for health care is either quite mad, rich or recently took it out at a very advanced age with a major on-going illness. Normally 150 euros a month is the norm for private care when over 50. Reports of Spain not accepting the Ehic card has I am sure occurred, but l am equally positive not on a grand scale . I questioned my daughter-in-law on this as she works in the Spanish health system and she told me yes errors have occurred on a very small scale and staff have been informed, lessons have been learnt and policies changed And I would also like to point out :

 

Spaniards have the highest healthy life expectancy in Europe according to a new report. The new report by the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation (IHME) found that Spain topped most developed countries for HEALTH and HEALTHCARE despite a dire financial crisis.

 

 

Edited by Lindamannion
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