Renault Megane - window problems - Going through Small claims court

[kudos1uk]

Background:

I have a Renault Megane bought from new in 2007, it came with a three year warranty which has now expired.

 

Renault have a design defect with the windows of the megane of this age where wet gets into the window controller and the window fails either up or down.

 

If you call Renault UK they even have an option on their IVR:

 

Press 1 if you have a problem with scenic dashboard

Press 2 if you have a problem with your megane windows.

Press 3 for everything else.

 

Renault accept the problem and have extended the warranty on the windows to 10 years @ 76% of the cost.

 

As all 4 of my windows have failed my 24% will cost me approx £500.

 

I have told Renault by letter this is not fair and as it's a design defect they should cover 100% of the cost.

 

In the mean time as my drivers window failed down for a 150mile drive in the rain I paid Renault £108 to fix one window (they would not fix the others as they say they have to be faulty on day of repair to fix them, they wont believe me they have intermittently failed)

 

The Renault franchises have confirmed (verbally) it's a design defect and the new parts are modified to ensure it does not happen again.

 

Examples of people making a living from this megane design defect

 

Not allowed to add links, will add later unless a mod wants to contact me and I will supply missing text.

 

My Action

 

I sent a series of letters ending up with a letter of intended action in 28 days.

After 28 days had passed on 7th May 2013 I started a small claims action on MCOL.

Renault did not respond so after 14 days (+5 for deemed served) which was 28th May I requested a Judgement.

Currently the Judgement has not been actioned & is still showing as requested.

 

 

I guess I'm just asking if I'm doing things right and what to expect.

 

Also I wonder if a judge would feel Renault have acted reasonably by offering 76% of the cost? I feel it's unreasonable to expect owners to pay anything to put this defect right.

Edited May 30, 2013 by kudos1uk

[kudos1uk]

Update, it has just been updated online and is now showing as "Your judgment against Renault UK Limited was issued on 29/05/2013".

 

I assume from this they have send Renault a letter instructing them to pay-up?

[unclebulgaria67]

Yes they would have sent the judgement to Renault and you will have to see what happens next. Will they just pay or will they look to obtain a set aside ? Renault will have 30 days to settle the amount, before the CCJ is officially registered.

[kudos1uk]

Thanks uncleb, that's good to know, it's all a bit new to me.

[dw190]

How much was the judgement for?

 

The reason I ask is, if they dont apply to set aside and thirty days pass without payment you can then enforce. If the amount is £600 or more then the High Court Sherrifs are the cheaper and more efficient option.

[renegadeimp]

Doubtful they will set aside. They would need a good reason to do so, and if the claim forms were served on their registered address, then the judgement would stand.

[kudos1uk]

How much was the judgement for?

 

The reason I ask is, if they dont apply to set aside and thirty days pass without payment you can then enforce. If the amount is £600 or more then the High Court Sherrifs are the cheaper and more efficient option.

 

It's only for £108 + costs (for the one window replaced), I put in my statement I expected the others to be replaced without delay but I doubt they will do that and I will probably have to repeat this action three more times for the other windows.

[kudos1uk]

Doubtful they will set aside. They would need a good reason to do so, and if the claim forms were served on their registered address, then the judgement would stand.

 

I used the address on their website for registering a complaint:

 

Renault UK Limited

The Rivers Office Park

Denham Way

Maple Cross

Rickmansworth

Hertfordshire

WD3 9YS

 

On their wesite it says:

Our website is operated by Renault U.K. Limited, a company registered in England and Wales under company number 82932 with its registered office and main trading address at The Rivers Office Park, Denham Way, Maple Cross, Rickmansworth, Hertfordshire WD3 9YS.

 

Looks good to me.

[heliosuk]

I'd be a bit more cautious if I were you. Firstly what you might think is fair and reality as to how these things are worked out are very different. Essentially what Renault have been offering is actually very good. You cannot expect a car to last forever however there is an expectation that it should last a reasonable amount of time. The parts/system will have been designed to last 10 years. You bought the car in 2008 so have had 50% use of the expected life and been denied50%. On this basis, and this is how it will be decided it is not unreasonable. By definition the chances of failure increase as time goes on. Given that these parts have been failing earlier than expected, Renault have obviously taken the decision to extend the warranty to 10 years and offer a 76% contribution. They could have extended the time limit and pro rata the amount paid and would still be being reasonable. This is probably done so the magnitude of the issue is easily managed through the standard warranty claims procedure that the dealers use.

 

The problem you have is that by steaming ahead with a MCOL claim you will 1. Have difficulty getting the money. 2. Renault will most probably ask for a set aside, and they will get it on an MCOL claim due to the sheer size of the company and the time it takes to go through their systems and as your demands are very unreasonable given what they have put in place. 3. Incur massive costs as their legal team will put together an argument based on data that shows world wide it's not that big an issue . 4. Quite rightly argue that if suing for a design issue then they are not responsible, Renault, France is. Renault UK is technically just an admin centre for Reanult France..........And that's just for starters!

 

Of course they might just settle and perhaps they will but I wouldn't be so sure at the moment.

[kudos1uk]

I'd be a bit more cautious if I were you.......

 

You have me worried now, I appreciate your comments and that was exactly why I posted and asked the question here.

 

I thought that part of the small claims meant you could not be landed with huge costs, my understanding was the most they could claim was traveling costs if I chose to have it heard in my local court, have I got that wrong?

 

I really don't know what to think now, the problem is massive so widespread it's unbelievable. It's clearly a design fault but if your right and Renault UK can just blame Renault France..... I just don't know what to think now it appeared so simple before.

[dw190]

Personally, I dont think Renault will put in a defence on the basis that the claim is for a small amount and if they lose at Court (Their own admissions admit to 76% fault) which is based on the balance of probabilities so I'm sure they will.

 

The unrecoverable costs they will have to fork out to defend should tell them its cost effective to pay up.

[unclebulgaria67]

For £108 + costs, I would be surprised if Renault challenged this. Why would they bother wasting their time, when it is only a small amount which they can settle out of petty cash.

[BazzaS]

 

The problem you have is that by steaming ahead with a MCOL claim you will

1. Have difficulty getting the money.

2. Renault will most probably ask for a set aside, and they will get it on an MCOL claim due to the sheer size of the company and the time it takes to go through their systems and as your demands are very unreasonable given what they have put in place.

3. Incur massive costs as their legal team will put together an argument based on data that shows world wide it's not that big an issue .

4. Quite rightly argue that if suing for a design issue then they are not responsible, Renault, France is. Renault UK is technically just an admin centre for Reanult France..........And that's just for starters!

 

Of course they might just settle and perhaps they will but I wouldn't be so sure at the moment.

 

1. If they don't pay up after a judgement, register the CCJ and kick up a stink in the press

2. Why should they get a set aside based on them being a large company?. The DJ may well decide "you are a big company, so should have processes in place to handle legal claims within the timescales set by the courts".

3. where are all these costs coming from that the court would allow? (given it is small claims track)

4. Who is not allowing the dealer to fix it under warranty? Renault UK or the parent?

The OP has a judgement in their favour : if Renault UK had wanted to argue these points they should have defended the claim.

[kudos1uk]

Thanks all, my minds almost at rest again.

 

I guess it's all speculation for the next 30 days.

 

It's my view it's unreasonable for all four of my windows to have failed, that's not normal wear an tear and when you Google it or talk to the technicians at the franchises it's clear Renault have a major problem. my four windows will cost me £400-£500 to repair, based on the one It's going to be £432.

 

Thanks again all.

Edited May 31, 2013 by kudos1uk

[heliosuk]

Renault are not actually admitting it's a fault. What they are saying by doing what they are, is recognising that in some circumstances it falls short of the expected durability which is why they are extending the time and the vin range to which it applies. It might be that some cars within the affected range will never fail. This does not mean they have a design fault as a design fault would involve the re-call of at least 70% of the cars and for which the owners will have received a letter asking them to bring the car in for repairs. And the interpretation of extending the warranty must be considered carefully. As they have a durability issue the easiest way of administering this is via the warranty system with what is known as a service campaign. This campaign will affect a certain range of vins and have a time limit.

 

It is not necessarily true to say either, that they have a massive problem with the design. You have no data to support this. All you have is reported instances published in the UK. What you need is the repairs per thousand vehicles produced to know if it's an issue worth pursuing in the courts.

 

If they were to defend/ask for a set aside and I'm pretty sure they will once you try to recover the money, they will bring all of this data and argue that the issue at hand and implications there of are a lot larger than can be handled at a MCOL hearing and they will get it. If they don't they will just go to a higher court and that's where the costs and risks start rocketing.

 

These companies put the costs of these type of actions over here into normal running costs and it's small fry to what they probably pay a retained team of lawyers in the USA for any issue that might arise.

 

Hopefully you'll get your money but I don't think this is going to happen any time soon. I could be wrong of course.

 

Don't get egged on by the bravado on this site that suing is easy. It's not. And....getting your money is even harder. That's the bit they forget to tell you.

[kudos1uk]

Your right of course, I can never prove the numbers of failures per 1000 cars, even Renault don't have those figures as a lot of people self repair. There are sellers on ebay selling kits and one man with is own website who make a living refurbishing these units.

[kudos1uk]

I will post the links when I can.

[kudos1uk]

It's too late to edit the first post but these are the links I wanted to add where the red text is:

 

This person making living repairing: https://sites.google.com/site/proluxelectronics/how-to

http://www.renaultwindow.co.uk/renault-megane-window.html

 

Other background

Here 1st question on Renaults FAQ: http://www.renault.co.uk/ownerservices/customerservice.aspx

Guardian article: http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2012/may/11/renault-faulty-window-motors

Big thread on Renault forum: http://www.renaultforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=112519

and here: http://www.renaultforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=109441.

[kudos1uk]

So.. guess what... another window failed today...... GRRRRRRR

 

When I booked in last time I had 3 windows not working by the day of repair only one was faulty, despite ordering three modules they only fitted one as they.... "have to be faulty on day of repair"

 

The others were so-called tested and deemed OK.

 

Three weeks on and another failure

 

Will it still be faulty when I take it in?

 

How many visits will I have to make before I can get all four fixed?

 

What now another small claim for another £108 + cost?

 

This whole situation is totally beyond a joke....... RENAULT WAKE UP AND THREAT YOUR CUSTOMERS TO SOME CUSTOMER CARE!!!!!

[sailor sam]

Just read this thread with interest.

 

I would of thought that the OP has taken action against the wrong 'respondent'. His contract after all is with the actual seller of the vehicle and not the manufacturer. It's the manufacturer who has an obligation to it's dealer in respect of warranty payments and then the dealer/seller has an obligation to the customer as far as the SOGA is concerned.

 

As for Renault setting a figure of 76% warranty reimbursement, that would be considered as a 'good will' contribution and should not affect the customer's statutory rights. It would be for a court to decide whether the contribution is adequate enough.

 

I obviously cannot speak for Renault themselves, but form my experience with another major European manufacturer, when it comes to 'design' or known faults, they tend to deal with the customer in a more positive way than this.

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[heliosuk]

Does the car have a full and up to date service history with Renault?

[kudos1uk]

It has a full up to date service history but not with Renault in recent years.

[kudos1uk]

Just read this thread with interest.

 

I would of thought that the OP has taken action against the wrong 'respondent'. His contract after all is with the actual seller of the vehicle and not the manufacturer. It's the manufacturer who has an obligation to it's dealer in respect of warranty payments and then the dealer/seller has an obligation to the customer as far as the SOGA is concerned.

 

 

I have an RAC legal cover policy so gave then a call a couple of weeks ago to ensure I was going down the right road and one of my concerns was if Renault or the retailer were the correct respondent. They were happy that Renault was correct.

[sailor sam]

[/center]

 

 

I have an RAC legal cover policy so gave then a call a couple of weeks ago to ensure I was going down the right road and one of my concerns was if Renault or the retailer were the correct respondent. They were happy that Renault was correct.

 

I'm not confident they are correct. I would of taken a second opinion. My feeling is that Renault could enter a defence saying that they have no contract with you. The matter is the legal responsibility of the retailer (which is normally the case).

 

AFAIK in respect of new car sales, your contract is with the retailer and their contract is with the manufacturer.

 

I am happy to be proven wrong however.

 

Please Note

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[unclebulgaria67]

I believe there is specific legislation that relates to road vehicles and failure of parts. The motor manufacturer can be held liable for the failure of parts, that should have lasted for a relevant amount of time, some for the lifetime of the vehicle. There was a recent mandatory recall for one vehicle make for a steering column problem going back to 2002.

 

This type of problem has been featured on Watchdog, Don't get done, get Dom etc. I am sure that if you search online you will find the details.

 

Anyway, in this case, I believe the OP is correct that their court claim is with Renault.