Letter from DWF - Shoplifting at Sainsbury's

[Red DD]

Hi,

 

A couple of weeks ago my wife was caught shoplifting at Sainsbury's. The police were called in, took her to the police station and she received a caution.

 

We're still talking about it with me trying my best to re-assure her and make her put it behind her. To not worry. What's done is done.

 

A few days ago she received a letter from DWF demanding £150 followed by another one the following day which was essentially the exact same letter as the previous day's one.

 

I have read the posts on this forum about RLP and their tactics and, specifically, the post about DWF and Sainsbury's. Unfortunately I cannot post a link to it as there is a 10 post minimum requirement before links can be posted.

 

I drafted a one line response which my wife signed and posted:

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Your ref: XXX\XXXXXXXX

 

With regards to your letter dated XXX, I deny any liability to you or your client.

 

Your faithfully,

 

What we did not do is get a proof of posting when we sent the letter. We just dropped it in the letterbox. That's fine though because she can send another reply to the inevitable second letter from DWF when it arrives and ensure that she gets a proof of posting this time.

 

My question relates to how to deal with the phone calls from DWF? No phone calls yet but I do anticipate them at some point next week. I mostly work from home and have cleared my diary for all of next week so that I, and not my wife, answers the phone and deals with these people.

 

Would it be fair for me to switch on my dictaphone, advise them that I am recording the phone conversation and then tell them that any further phone calls from them will be treated as harassment which may result in legal action by us against them?

[ims21]

Oh yes, if you can record the calls then so much the better...even if it is just for entertainment value.

 

And remember, don't be intimidated into paying them anything.

[Red DD]

Thanks ims21. I shall do that.

 

A second question if I may. I expect them to want to talk directly to my wife and have her answer some security questions before proceeding. Should I allow them to do so or should I just tell them to deal with me?

 

The last thing I want is for my wife to be left in tears by these people so I would rather she not talk to them. She's made a mistake, she's embarrassed and she most definitely will not be doing it again.

[ims21]

Well personally I would not entertain them at all and just put the phone down on them.

 

Don't forget, this has been dealt with by the police...these people are just chancing their arm to try and get some money out of you.

[Ros1609]

If they call just say 'In writing only' very firmly and hang up

[Red DD]

If they call just say 'In writing only' very firmly and hang up

 

At this moment I am actually tempted to say more than 'In writing only' to them if/when the call arrives, Ros1609.

 

I won't though. I will be very assertive with them, warn them that the conversation is being recorded and advise them that any further attempt to make contact with my wife via phone will be treated as harassment and will result in me seeking legal advice.

 

I will be updating this thread after each new development (letter, phone call) as I'm sure others who find themselves in a similar situation will be interested. As soon as I am able to (after 10 posts) I will scan and post the letters (appropriately censored) from DWF and my wife as and when they arrive/sent/received.

 

On a side-note, I showed my wife a few of the threads here, in CAG. They have gone a long way in helping her calm down. Thank you!

 

Yes, she still feels ashamed but that's okay. Time will heal that feeling and allow her to return to her previous bubbly self that I know and love.

[ims21]

You don't need 10 posts to be able to post up any letters.

 

You can use this method

 

set your default scan page size to A4 less than 300DPI [150 will do]

scan the required letters/agreements/sheets - as a picture[jpg] file

don't forget you can use a mobile phone or a digital camera too!!

'

BUT......

ENSURE: remove all pers info inc. barcodes etc using paint program

but leave all monetary figures and dates.

************************* ************************* *******

{DO NOT USE A BIRO OR PEN OR USE SEE THRU TAPE OR LABELS]

try http://www.pdfescape.com TO BLANK STUFF,

************************* ************************* ***********

or

DO IT IN MSPAINT.EXE or any photo editing program

goto one of the many free online pdf converter websites ...

http://freejpgtopdf.com/

..

if you have multiple scans/pics

put them in a word doc FIRST and convert that to PDF

or use http://www.pdfmerge.com

 

convert existing PC files to PDF [office has an installable print to PDF option]

..

 

it would be better to upload a multipage pdf if

you have many images too rather than many single pdfs

.

or if you have PDF as an installed printer drive use that

or use word and save as pdf

try and logically name your file so people know what it is.

though dont use full bank names or CAG in the title

i'e Default notice dd-mm-yyyy TSB

.

open a new msg box here

hit go advanced below the msg box

hit manage attachments below that box

hit the add files button on the top right

hit select files, navigate to your file on your pc

hit upload files

[Red DD]

Thanks for that. I have a Mac but have followed the last section of your instructions with regards to posting here via the 'Go Advanced' section.

 

If all is good, attached will be a .pdf of the letter from DWF.

[Red DD]

That worked. Excellent.

 

Attached is the reply from my wife to DWF.

[ims21]

Attachments have been unapproved because personal information is visible.

 

You need to cleanse them before conversion to PDF.

[Madamfluff]

I cant help you with advise but would like to say you are a star and a hero in your support of your wife.

[renegadeimp]

At this moment I am actually tempted to say more than 'In writing only' to them if/when the call arrives, Ros1609.

 

 

You can say whatever you feel like to them. They are making an unsolicited call which is breaching on criminal activity ( demanding money by menaces or obtaining money by deception). They will be very careful not to step over the line though, so perhaps you can trip them up so they stumble over it

[dx100uk]

little fleecers ignore them

 

dx

[andydd]

What an odd letter, has no explanation on why they are asking for money or what basis in law they have, its also a long way short of complying with any cpr pre action protocols.

 

Andy

[ashmk]

Tell them that your letter reading fee costs twice what they are asking for and once you receive full payment you will be able to enter into further correspondence with them to settle this matter to which you deny all liability.

 

ps that was a joke.

[renegadeimp]

Actually ashmk, that would work. It works on DCA's so it may work on con artists like this.

[assisted blonde]

well have some fun with them if you don't want to ignore them, I would

[andydd]

well have some fun with them if you don't want to ignore them, I would

 

Me too, they are asking for money for their 'time' (despite there being no clear legal presecedent for this), so its equally viable to bill them for the time you spent on their correspondence, I wouldnt go OTT, just bill them at the £18 per hour LiP rate. This would be less than the £150 they allege it cost thmem, its worth noting in the Oxford case, it was quite clear that the Judge had some difficulty believing the figures put forward by RLP.

 

Andy

[renegadeimp]

SOME difficulty? Didnt he pretty much laugh it out of court and chastise them?

[2Grumpy]

SOME difficulty? Didnt he pretty much laugh it out of court and chastise them?

 

What - the judge put the boot in?????

[2Grumpy]

When I receive unsolicited phone calls then I consider it perfectly ok to be VERY robust with them. Four letter compound words do flow quite freely.

 

In your case, I would follow up the torrent of abuse with a query as to whether they would like you to refer their calls to the police or would they like to just stop making them, since their demands do seem so close to demanding money by menaces and under false presences that you are quite happy for the police to let the CPS listen to the recordings & read a copy of the letters that they have sent.

[andydd]

SOME difficulty? Didnt he pretty much laugh it out of court and chastise them?

 

Well..he did sympathise with the store but couldnt find any parallels in their 'prescedent' (water company floods factory causing loss of manufacturing and expenisve clean up) to a shoplifter steals something and security staff spend time dealing with it, as their job is eerr..to deal with shoplifters and at most they spend maybe an hour on it at a rate only just above minumum wage.

 

Andy