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    • Dazza a few months ago I discovered a good friend of mine who had ten debts with cards and catalogues which he was slavishly paying off at detriment to his own family quality of life, and I mean hardship, not just absence of second holidays or flat screen TV's.
       
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Arrow Global Seeking Payment on a EGG debt Included in Bankruptcy (sold to them by Egg)


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Hello,

 

I’m looking for some help in sorting out my CRF. I ran into financial difficulties as far back as 2006 but continued making payments as best I could before finally petitioning for bankruptcy in 2009 to get some peace from my creditors. Although it was a relief at the time, the issues have still continued to this day. I want to get my CRF sorted so that when I try to obtain a mortgage later down the line, I don't have too many issues.

 

I was declared bankrupt in February 2009 and discharged in October 2009. Two of my three creditors behaved well, but the third – Egg – continued to harass me up until November 2010 with Arrears and Default notices every few months. It was eventually sorted with a complaint to the FOS - Egg acknowledged that a fault on their system kept sending out these letters and they said they had corrected the issue plus they paid £50 compensation.

 

However, in June 2011 they contacted me to tell me that my Egg Loan was being transferred to Britannia Recoveries – Arrow. Britannia-Arrow wrote as well to confirm this. They stated their knowledge in the Notice of Assignment that I had been made bankrupt and that any payments would have to come from the Official Receiver. The validity of Egg selling on a debt that had been included in a bankruptcy – and discharged 20 months before – did not occur to me at the time.

 

In May 2013, while checking my credit file on Experian, I noticed in my credit account that not only did I have the original Egg loan which was defaulted, balance marked as Satisfied, but Arrow-Global were listing that I had a defaulted account with a balance of nearly £7000 (the sum that I originally owed Egg). So I have two defaulted accounts due to the same debt.

 

I have also just received another Notice of Assignment which seems to be sent on the pretext of my account being purchased by Arrow Global from Britannica Recoveries (Britannica-Arrow). Quite bizarre since both Notices of Assignment are on Arrow Global headed paper and is essentially a transfer between slightly separate divisions of the same parent company.

 

This Notice of Assignment is different to before. They mention the debt amount owed, they state that their records show that I have a repayment plan in place (obviously NOT true) and the account is now managed for them by Debt Managers (Services) Ltd.

  1. How can Egg knowingly sell on my “debt” 20 months after I am discharged from bankruptcy? How can a debt that is wiped clean in a bankruptcy be sold on? As I understand it, my Egg Loan account should have been marked as “Satisfied” once I was discharged, with a settlement date shown as no later than the discharge date. What has actually happened is that Egg has marked the Egg loan account with a satisfaction date of 11/2010 (linked to FOS complaint?) and a partial settlement date of 04/2011 (debt sold to Arrow).
  2. Can I write to Arrow-Global – with copies of my discharge notice - to request the removal of this default account from my CRF?
  3. If so, do I write to the Compliance Manager at Debt Managers or bypass them and send it to Arrow-Global’s head office.
  4. A further issue is that the default date on the Arrow-Global account AND the original Egg account from which it originated, is shown as 5 months after my bankruptcy petition. Can I instruct Egg to amend this date to the date of my bankruptcy as per ICO guidelines on Defaults?
  5. If they don’t deal with the complaint and update my information, do I just complain to the ICO initially or do I involve the FOS as well.
  6. Is it not illegal for DCAs to chase up debts post-bankruptcy? If so, is there not a Regulatory body to complain to so that they are fined? I know that Barclays got hit with a big fine over “silent” phone calls.
  7. Am I entitled to compensation? How can this be enforced? Based on threads on this site ICO or FOS seem to support only paltry settlements? It was also suggested that even without being able to prove specific financial loss, compensation could be sought in the Small Claims Court over general damage to creditworthiness.

I would be grateful for any advice on the best course of action to take and legal perspective to use in my letters. It’s obviously much easier to argue your case when you are crystal-clear on your legal rights.

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2 yes

3.yes

4.yes

5.both

7 yes

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

 

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

 

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

 

 

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Thanks for your reply, a masterclass in conciseness :-)

 

How do I set a level for compensation? Some threads suggest that you need to be able to specifically document financial loss that you have suffered in terms of higher interest rates paid etc., loans not approved etc. Another thread by Durkin suggests that you just make a claim in the Small Claims Court for £5000 for general damage to credit worthiness. How likely is this to pay off? Would the argument not just be that it's a simple mistake and that you have to give them a chance to rectify it first?

 

It's not so much about the money, but more about making it more costly for these b*****s to just do as they please and trash people's credit rating.

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You can assess consequential loss if any, such as refused finance at 'normal' interest rates, damages as in Durkins posts and for stress caused time and costs in resolving the problem.

 

A 14 day Letter Before Action, to give them a chance to resolve your complaints, no resolution issue claim.

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Thanks Brig, since I can't claim for consequential losses it was going to be more about stress, time and damage to general credit worthiness. The implication in the other thread was that it was a simple matter of going through the small claims court, showing erroneous defaults and NOT having to demonstrate examples where you had paid more due to poor credit rating. I somehow doubt it would be this easy!

 

Now that I am actually about to write to Arrow Global to request that they remove the default from the CRA's - in its entirety, not just amend the details that are incorrect - I am unsure of my legal argument for them to do this.

 

Is it that since they purchased the account details from Egg 20 months after I was discharged from bankruptcy, the debt had ceased to exist?

 

I already have a default recorded with Egg for the debt and my understanding is that Egg should have marked my account as partially satisfied when I was discharged, and NOT sold on my details to Arrow Global. If this is true, then raising a default against me when no money was owed, would mean that the default is invalid. Is this the case?

 

At what point should companies not sell on your account details? When you are discharged?

Edited by Andrew65
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If the debt was included in the bankruptcy, it's gone. End of story. It sounds like even though its been wiped, egg still chanced their luck by selling a non existant debt to get some cash off it.

 

If the default was placed after the bankruptcy was discharged, then it was placed unfairly.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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Thanks, that was what I hoped to hear, it didn't seem right to have a default raised against a non-existent debt, but it's confusing when companies do sell on debts included in bankruptcy. I'm really annoyed since Egg knew that I had been discharged months before they sold my details on, since it was raised in a successful complaint with the FOS.

 

When writing to the compliance manager is it best to write to Arrow Global's head office or write to the people they have involved in managing the account, namely Debt Managers (Services) Ltd of Rotherham? I want to send proof of my discharge etc. by recorded delivery and if they don't respond I will go to ICO but I don't want the whole process being delayed by ICO saying I should have informed Arrow Global and not their agents.

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Who placed the default? Thats who you need to address. The new owners wouldnt have the required info and would say to contact the OC. You could include a note about the bankruptcy and tell the current owner that they were sold a debt that effectively doesnt exist.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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Arrow Global as beneficial owner of the account are responsible for maintain the CRA records.

Send the following to the Data Controller at Arrow Global(send evidence of BR and discharge).

 

The Data Controller

Arrow Global

 

 

FORMAL COMPLAINT:

 

Sir/Madam,

 

I refer to correspondence from Arrow Global ref: ......... regarding an alleged debt originating from an account with Egg, please note I do note accept or acknowledge to Arrow Global for the reasons set out below:

 

1. This account was subject to my personal bankruptcy, declared on ...........

2. I was discharged from BR on...................

3.Arrow Global has acquired this account some 20 months AFTER my discharge from BR.

4. It appears that the original creditor has sold /assigned this account with full knowledge

that the debt no longer exists, a situation that Arrow Global must be aware of.

5. Arrow global are causing inaccurate and defamatory data to be displayed on CRA files.

6. This inaccurate data is causing me extreme anxiety and distress, because I am unable to

obtain credit at 'normal' rates, and applications are rejected.

 

What is required from Arrow Global to remedy this complaint:

 

 

 

(a). Immediate removal of ALL data relating to this account from ALL CRA files to which it has been reported.

(b). Arrow Global WILL make a substantial offer of financial redress for the appalling misuse of the CRA system

and the problems this has caused me.

©.It is apparent also that the original creditor has acted improperly in collusion with Arrow Global to obtain payment

of a debt subject to a Bankruptcy, this matter will be reported to the OFT and the ICO.

(d). I reserve the right to take this matter to the FOS which of course will involve Arrow Global and the original creditor

in further costs.

I would now expect Arrow Global to respond quickly and favourably to this complaint, the right to initiate court action is reserved.

  • Confused 1

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Brigadier,

 

Thank you so much for that incredibly helpful response. It says exactly what I need it to say - and more than I would have thought to said - and likely in a much clearer way!

 

It will be nice to go on the offensive for a change and let them know that they don't have the monopoly on "unpleasant letters" in the post. :-)

 

I'll keep the thread updated with how I get on with both Arrow Global and Egg.

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This is certainly a matter that needs confronting head on, there is reason to maker complaints to the regulators now, these can be escalated should AG fail to comply.

The sale of this may breach some of the insolvency rules too.

Any Letters I Draft are N0T approved by CAG and no personal liability is accepted.

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  • 1 year later...

This post is to update my progress on my complaint with Arrow Global (AG)

 

I sent them a letter (recorded delivery) along the lines suggested by Brigadier.

I received no response.

 

I knew that I had to allow them a few weeks to respond, but then, as is the way with these things, I didn't pursue it as soon as I should have.

 

Fast forward to a few months ago and

 

I submitted a complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS).

Once they were involved AG then started its complaint's procedure.

 

First off, they denied receiving a letter from me.

When I gave FOS proof that someone had signed for the package they then said that it must have gone astray (more on this later!).

 

It took them 8 weeks or so to finally send me a letter upholding my complaint.

They did go to great lengths to tell me about the due diligence they perform when buying account details

but that they are dependent on the warranties made by the vendor, in this case Egg.

 

They claim that Egg have now informed them that the account was sold in error

and to delete the default from my account. Hurrah!

 

What they do admit is that they should have done more to investigate whether the account had been sold to them in error

when they realised the completion date of my bankruptcy. (They bought my account details months after I had been discharged).

 

What is interesting is that they mention that Debt Managers, who were managing the account for them,

became aware of my completed bankruptcy, and sent an amendment to the CRAs to update my account as partially satisfied.

 

The date given for this was the exact same day that they received my letter, the one they denied receiving.

They made no mention that this information had actually come from my letter.

 

having received a letter that explained clearly the date of my bankruptcy discharge,

which pointed out that they should not have purchased my account details

and that they needed to remove the details from the CRAs,

all they did was to mark my account as partially satisfied.

They did not even feel the need to contact me, as I asked, to resolve the situation.

 

All they have offered by way of compensation is £50.

This barely covers the expense of checking and rechecking my credit files, postage, phone calls, time etc.

before even considering the negative effect on my credit worthiness and the stress of dealing with it all.

 

I had problems opening a bank account because they were showing that I owed over £6000

and was still in default years after my bankruptcy had taken place.

 

While I realise that the most important thing is to get my CRA files corrected

I feel that not only were they responsible for the original error,

but that they were negligent in not correcting the problem when I informed them by letter.

 

I think that I have clear evidence that they did not resolve the complaint properly when they had the chance

and continued to display inaccurate information on my CRA files.

 

After all I have been through it just doesn't seem right that they can make these errors

which have had such a large effect on me, and then just fob me off with a standard lowest level compensation payment.

 

Does anyone have any experience or suggestions as to what I should do next?

 

What would be a fair amount of compensation that takes into account the years t

hat this negative information has been on my CRA files and the stress and inconvenience it has put me through?

 

Thanks!

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the result of the durkin case will help you

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

 

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

 

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

 

 

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Share on other sites

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

 

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

 

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

 

 

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This post is to update my progress on my complaint with Arrow Global (AG)

 

I sent them a letter (recorded delivery) along the lines suggested by Brigadier.

I received no response.

 

I knew that I had to allow them a few weeks to respond, but then, as is the way with these things, I didn't pursue it as soon as I should have.

 

Fast forward to a few months ago and

 

I submitted a complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS).

Once they were involved AG then started its complaint's procedure.

 

First off, they denied receiving a letter from me.

When I gave FOS proof that someone had signed for the package they then said that it must have gone astray (more on this later!).

 

It took them 8 weeks or so to finally send me a letter upholding my complaint.

They did go to great lengths to tell me about the due diligence they perform when buying account details

but that they are dependent on the warranties made by the vendor, in this case Egg.

 

They claim that Egg have now informed them that the account was sold in error

and to delete the default from my account. Hurrah!

 

What they do admit is that they should have done more to investigate whether the account had been sold to them in error

when they realised the completion date of my bankruptcy. (They bought my account details months after I had been discharged).

 

What is interesting is that they mention that Debt Managers, who were managing the account for them,

became aware of my completed bankruptcy, and sent an amendment to the CRAs to update my account as partially satisfied.

 

The date given for this was the exact same day that they received my letter, the one they denied receiving.

They made no mention that this information had actually come from my letter.

 

having received a letter that explained clearly the date of my bankruptcy discharge,

which pointed out that they should not have purchased my account details

and that they needed to remove the details from the CRAs,

all they did was to mark my account as partially satisfied.

They did not even feel the need to contact me, as I asked, to resolve the situation.

 

All they have offered by way of compensation is £50.

This barely covers the expense of checking and rechecking my credit files, postage, phone calls, time etc.

before even considering the negative effect on my credit worthiness and the stress of dealing with it all.

 

I had problems opening a bank account because they were showing that I owed over £6000

and was still in default years after my bankruptcy had taken place.

 

While I realise that the most important thing is to get my CRA files corrected

I feel that not only were they responsible for the original error,

but that they were negligent in not correcting the problem when I informed them by letter.

 

I think that I have clear evidence that they did not resolve the complaint properly when they had the chance

and continued to display inaccurate information on my CRA files.

 

After all I have been through it just doesn't seem right that they can make these errors

which have had such a large effect on me, and then just fob me off with a standard lowest level compensation payment.

 

Does anyone have any experience or suggestions as to what I should do next?

 

What would be a fair amount of compensation that takes into account the years t

hat this negative information has been on my CRA files and the stress and inconvenience it has put me through?

 

Thanks!

 

 

Hello Andrew,

 

 

Was this letter headed final response? If so take the case back to FOS, this in my opinion is an inadequate response.

 

 

How far are you prepared to go with this ? There is the court route open to you to seek redress, prior to this you should send a letter before action which lays down the " problems" and what exactly require AG to do to remedy the damage done and financial redress for it.

Any Letters I Draft are N0T approved by CAG and no personal liability is accepted.

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Thanks for the replies.

 

The letter wasn't headed final response and AG stated that if I was dissatisfied then I could refer it back to the FOS.

 

Obviously they have resolved the default on my account - I still have this to check though - but my issue is just that the compensation seems to be on the low end. I was hoping to get a feel for what CAG members think is reasonable.

 

I feel that AG have been negligent in buying up my account details in the first place and not resolved the issue when I contacted them last year. I think that their response that they never received that letter, then changed to "we've mislaid it" shows them in a bad light since it can be shown that they did act on that letter , but in a limited, inadequate way. Consequently, they continued to display incorrect details. The fact that they indicated that I owed over £6000 would have severely limited my ability to rebuild my credit rating, apply for a mortgage etc.

 

How does one estimate compensation? I can't come up with a figure linked to actual financial loss - as I have read about elsewhere - but the fact that AG has displayed damaging information on my CRA files has limited me in those opportunities and caused inconvenience and stress over several years.

 

If I contact the FOS and say that the compensation is too low, they will want to know a figure presumably? Will the FOS accept the argument that if the actions of AG are negligent, and have caused inconvenience, stress and damage to my credit worthiness leading to lost opportunities, then compensation should be higher? I just have a feeling that the FOS, while happy to arbitrate and ensure that companies do the right thing, are happier to get the quick win and not necessarily get the best compensation deal for the consumer. Or am I wrong on this?

 

I'll assume that the general consensus is that £50 is way too low? So as a first step what do I tell the FOS?

 

If AG stick at £50 can I pursue a claim through the small claims court or will it need to be an alternative court? I don't mind going to court but want to strike a balance between getting fair compensation and not wasting years of my life to get slightly more.

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Thanks for the replies.

 

The letter wasn't headed final response and AG stated that if I was dissatisfied then I could refer it back to the FOS.

 

Obviously they have resolved the default on my account - I still have this to check though - but my issue is just that the compensation seems to be on the low end. I was hoping to get a feel for what CAG members think is reasonable.

 

I feel that AG have been negligent in buying up my account details in the first place and not resolved the issue when I contacted them last year. I think that their response that they never received that letter, then changed to "we've mislaid it" shows them in a bad light since it can be shown that they did act on that letter , but in a limited, inadequate way. Consequently, they continued to display incorrect details. The fact that they indicated that I owed over £6000 would have severely limited my ability to rebuild my credit rating, apply for a mortgage etc.

 

How does one estimate compensation? I can't come up with a figure linked to actual financial loss - as I have read about elsewhere - but the fact that AG has displayed damaging information on my CRA files has limited me in those opportunities and caused inconvenience and stress over several years.

 

If I contact the FOS and say that the compensation is too low, they will want to know a figure presumably? Will the FOS accept the argument that if the actions of AG are negligent, and have caused inconvenience, stress and damage to my credit worthiness leading to lost opportunities, then compensation should be higher? I just have a feeling that the FOS, while happy to arbitrate and ensure that companies do the right thing, are happier to get the quick win and not necessarily get the best compensation deal for the consumer. Or am I wrong on this?

 

I'll assume that the general consensus is that £50 is way too low? So as a first step what do I tell the FOS?

 

If AG stick at £50 can I pursue a claim through the small claims court or will it need to be an alternative court? I don't mind going to court but want to strike a balance between getting fair compensation and not wasting years of my life to get slightly more.

 

 

 

If you go down the court route or ask FOS to intervene you will have to show provable loss.

Any Letters I Draft are N0T approved by CAG and no personal liability is accepted.

Please Consider making a donation to keep this site running!

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If you go down the court route or ask FOS to intervene you will have to show provable loss.
Well this is my point. How do you prove loss that is associated with time wasted checking CRA files, writing letters, phone calls, emails, inability to open a bank account without having to provide details of bankruptcy, inability to even apply for credit due to erroneous records on file, not to mention the stress over an extended period.

 

How does one quantify that?

 

Is provable loss based purely on financial metrics or do they take other factors into account? £50 does not seem adequate compensation for all of the above, particularly as AG seem to base their business on buying up loan details, harrassing people over often unenforceable debts and not responding to complaints made against them...unless you involve the FOS. Only then will they offer meagre compensation. It's too small a price to pay for the harm they do.

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Well this is my point. How do you prove loss that is associated with time wasted checking CRA files, writing letters, phone calls, emails, inability to open a bank account without having to provide details of bankruptcy, inability to even apply for credit due to erroneous records on file, not to mention the stress over an extended period.

 

How does one quantify that?

 

Is provable loss based purely on financial metrics or do they take other factors into account? £50 does not seem adequate compensation for all of the above, particularly as AG seem to base their business on buying up loan details, harrassing people over often unenforceable debts and not responding to complaints made against them...unless you involve the FOS. Only then will they offer meagre compensation. It's too small a price to pay for the harm they do.

 

 

Do you have letters declining credit/ banking facilities/ being offered higher rates for credit?

 

 

I would still take AG on for redress for the embarrassment, stress/distress of having AG harass for what is now a nob existent debt.

 

 

Did Arrow or any other company disregard your requests to cease contact e.g. contacting you only in writing and the continue phoning?

Any Letters I Draft are N0T approved by CAG and no personal liability is accepted.

Please Consider making a donation to keep this site running!

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Do you have letters declining credit/ banking facilities/ being offered higher rates for credit?

 

 

I would still take AG on for redress for the embarrassment, stress/distress of having AG harass for what is now a nob existent debt.

 

 

Did Arrow or any other company disregard your requests to cease contact e.g. contacting you only in writing and the continue phoning?

I don't have any letters showing a provable, financial sum that I am out of pocket by since I did not dare apply for a credit card or mortgage while AG were indicating that I owed in excess of £6000 on my credit file and that I was in default on that debt. So my situation is about lost opportunities due to their showing damaging false information that would have most likely prevented me obtaining credit. It certainly led to problems in setting up my bank account.

 

The problem was not that they kept contacting me but that they would not respond to my complaint in order to resolve it. I sent them a detailed letter with all appropriate paperwork and they did mark the account as partially satisfied in response but did not remove all traces of the entry from my CRA file, or contact me.

 

You suggest taking AG on for redress for embarassment, stress, etc. which is the way I intended to play it to begin with, but the question is how?

 

Do I just go back to the FOS and say that their response is inadequate, that they lied about not receiving the paperwork last year and that this has needlessly prolonged my situation? Do I say that the compensation is inadequate since it barely coves my expenses, much less my time or suffering? It isn't just about getting fair compensation, I would like some action taken to stop them routinely buying up account details that they haven't checked, displaying inaccurate info on CRA records and then making it damn difficult to get it removed.

 

So shall I just go back to the FOS and explain my objections?

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Yes I would go back to FOS.

Put your case for the stress/anxiety/ problems with getting a bank account and applying for any credit product being impossible, entirely due to the action of AG.

No guarantee of success of course.

 

 

I would also make a complaint to the ICO regarding the manner in which the data has been processed and

displayed.

Any Letters I Draft are N0T approved by CAG and no personal liability is accepted.

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