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Hi, I had a bailiff visit my house today for unpaid council tax. The firm was Ross and Roberts LTD.

 

We missed the call but a letter was posted through the door charging me £24.50 for the visit.

 

I've read through a few threads and am I right in thinking not to let them in or even deal direct with them.

 

I've seen it advised to start making payments online to the council and to write to them stating I will not deal with a bailiff only them.

 

All doors and windows are now looked down.

 

We have two vehicles, my girlfriend (she is not named on the letter or bill and my leased van for work.

Am I correct in thinking they can't touch either of these vehicles?

 

Any advice on how to handle this will be greatly appreciated!

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Was the outstanding for a period when you lived alone or with your current GF.


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I think it may have been for a bit of both, but only my name is on the bill.

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You need to contact the council for the following info.

 

1 - how many Liability Orders they have against you

2 - the dates they were obtained

3 - the addresses they were for

4 - the period of time each covers

5 - how much each one was for

6 - how much is still outstanding

7 - the dates they were passed on for enforcement

8 - the dates & amounts of any payments

 

Depending on your situation, you may be able to make an arrangement with the council to pay them over a period of time. The council may not want to deal with the account, unless there are issues of vulnerability and may just tell you to deal with the bailiffs. There is nothing to force you to deal with the bailiffs, but you must ensure that you make payments to the council and confirm in writing to them what you will be doing i.e £x per month. You will still have to pay the bailiff for their first visit £24.50, but should avoid a further £18 visit fee, if you start to pay the council and the bailiffs are made aware of this.


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You will still have to pay the bailiff for their first visit £24.50, but should avoid a further £18 visit fee, if you start to pay the council and the bailiffs are made aware of this.

 

i thought as long as you pay the liability order to the council the bailiff has no power to enforce his charges


:???: what me. never heard of you never had a debt with you.

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i thought as long as you pay the liability order to the council the bailiff has no power to enforce his charges

 

I thought that the £24.50 is covered by legislation and if they visit before any payment is made, that you had to pay this.


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how would the bailiff enforce it. if there was not liability order because it was cleared?


:???: what me. never heard of you never had a debt with you.

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Do you have to pay the charges if you pay off the debt

 

If you pay off your debt in full to the creditor before the bailiffs are instructed, you don’t have to pay bailiff’s charges.

 

Once bailiffs have been asked to act, you'll usually have to pay their charges whether or not they can take your goods.

 

If you pay off the debt to the creditor but not the bailiffs’ charges that you owe, the bailiffs can’t take goods from you just to recover their own costs. They'll have to take action against you themselves to get the money back.


:???: what me. never heard of you never had a debt with you.

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The bailiffs can still enforce for their fees using the liability order - make sure they are paid so this doesnt happen.

 

The Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992

Regulation 45 in particular paragraphs 3 & 4


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Thanks for the info so far, I will get straight onto the council tomorrow. I will also state that I won't be dealing with the bailiffs and will only deal with the council. I will set up a standing order to the council and inform them of this too.

 

Still slightly concerned about the vehicle situation. Is my girlfriends car in danger, we can always park it in the garage if that changes matters.

 

My vehicle is leased so should be safe I believe?

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Still slightly concerned about the vehicle situation. Is my girlfriends car in danger, we can always park it in the garage if that changes matters. There is obviously a chance it could be, if putting it in your own garage then make sure the door is locked.

 

My vehicle is leased so should be safe I believe? To be on the safe side make sure you have a copy of the lease agreement handy, as it is a van is it sign written?

 

PT


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Ok thank you.

 

Do you have any idea of how many times a ballifff will visit, is it just twice?

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Ok thank you.

 

Do you have any idea of how many times a ballifff will visit, is it just twice?

 

No hard & fast rule here. Some will try & make a nuisance of themselves by continually calling others may give up at the first opportunity. It is not something that will happen overnight.


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I'll get the letter off to the council today.

 

Should I also write to the ballifff saying I won't deal with them but will be paying the council direct.

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I'll get the letter off to the council today.

 

Should I also write to the ballifff saying I won't deal with them but will be paying the council direct.

 

Once you have made a payment to the council and confirmed regular payments to them in writing, I would suggest that you confirm this to the bailiffs. You will have to pay the bailiffs the £24.50 for their visit at some point, otherwise they may return to continue enforcement.


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Hey guys, here's an update.

 

I wrote to the council saying I would only pay them and not the balif. I said I would pay via electronic transfer. They wrote back saying they would not accept my payment and any payments made would be put against this years bil.

 

I also wrote to the balif stating I would only pay the council, they wrote back saying action would only stop if the council told them to.

 

The bailiff has not been back round and I'm unsure of what to do next.

 

Any advice would really be appreciated.

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I've asked Outlawla to have a look.


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....I wrote to the council saying I would only pay them and not the balif. I said I would pay via electronic transfer. They wrote back saying they would not accept my payment and any payments made would be put against this years bil.....

 

 

A suggestion would be to request that the council allocate your funds to the account of your choosing, if the department deems this to be outside its powers, ask that they seek the judgment of "Peter v Anderson".

 

"
A person who is indebted to another on two several accounts, may, on paying him money, ascribe it to which account he pleases.–and his election may either be expressed,-Or may be inferred from the circumstances of the transaction
.

 

 

In case your interested there's some background to the system's allocation rules here in this Internal Audit Report.

 

 

3.3.1 The collection and reporting of Council Tax income is straightforward when a tax payer pays their annual charge within that year. Complexities arise when a Council Tax Payer falls into arrears and owes the council money for past years as well as the current year. There is significant case law (for example, Peter v Anderson (1814)) however, put simply, if a person specifies which years debt the payment should be assigned it should be assigned to that years debt.

 

3.3.2 The council tax system has built in allocation rules to ensure that the law with respect to specified payments is met. For instance, if a customer has a payment plan for any year of debt and the payment they make matches the planned instalment then the money will be allocated to that year (this is known as “hard” allocation on the council tax system). If the system is unable to “hard allocate” then it will instead “soft” allocate and the debt will be used against the oldest debt unless manually adjusted.

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A suggestion would be to request that the council allocate your funds to the account of your choosing, if the department deems this to be outside its powers, ask that they seek the judgment of "Peter v Anderson".

 

"
A person who is indebted to another on two several accounts, may, on paying him money, ascribe it to which account he pleases.–and his election may either be expressed,-Or may be inferred from the circumstances of the transaction
.

 

 

In case your interested there's some background to the system's allocation rules here in this Internal Audit Report.

 

This is brilliant, and relevant to me also. I get full CTB but as of april still have to pay £12 a month, and i have arrears which is about £650 going back over the last 3 years, i pay this back at a agreed £60 a month, I was told to make this years payments of £12 a month to the same account on a different day and it should emphasis on the should come of the correct debt i.e current years and previous years arrears. Didnt know i could specify a specific year for arrears to come off.

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Quick update

 

The council have refused to take any payments for the above debt?

 

I'm pretty fed up of having the curtains closed and having to park my car so far away. I have wrote to the bailiffs and stated that I would pay £50 a month, I also enclosed a copy of my vehicle lease so they are aware they can't levy that.

 

They wrote back saying they can only accept an arrangement if the bailiff is permitted to levy goods at my property. Obviously I don't want them anywhere near my house but at this point I see little option.

 

I want to get this over and done with now and set up a payment arrangement but without having my goods levied?

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Have any payments been made since June to either bailiff or council?

 

If you can transfer funds directly into the council's account there's nothing much they can do about it except allocate it to this year's account as they stated previously. Even that, I wouldn't think they could do if it was put in writing that a specified sum should pay off your previous year's debt.

 

Did you cite the judgment of Peter v Anderson ?

 

A person who is indebted to another on two several accounts, may, on paying him money, ascribe it to which account he pleases.–and his election may either be expressed,-Or may be inferred from the circumstances of the transaction.

 

 

Perhaps threaten the council with the LGO if they refuse to pay off the account which you specify.

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Hi Outlawla

 

No I've paid a payment yet as I didn't want to start paying the council if they weren't going to accept the payments. I will write another letter today quoting the case and wait for the reply.

 

I just to get this sorted now :(

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Hi Outlawla

 

No I've paid a payment yet as I didn't want to start paying the council if they weren't going to accept the payments. I will write another letter today quoting the case and wait for the reply.

 

I just to get this sorted now :(

 

Pay something direct to the council online, don't wait for a reply, do it now, now, it gives you the moral high ground, no payment and they see you as another won't pay. Also have they refused payment in writing? if so they are acting unlawfully as they are bound by law to accept a tendered payment. Otherwise tebder a p[ayment at the council office and if refused get the drone to sign that they are refusing payment as it is with bailiffs, that is then your evidence for the complaint. that refusal then forms the basis of a Formal Complaint that they are refusing payments you suspect to garner fees for their bailiffs, who do not need a levy to accept an agreement, in fact to allow them to levy would be seriously detrimental to your wallet


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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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Hi Outlawla

 

No I've paid a payment yet as I didn't want to start paying the council if they weren't going to accept the payments. I will write another letter today quoting the case and wait for the reply.

 

I just to get this sorted now :(

 

 

If your council's computer system has the same allocation rules as that detailed in Milton Keynes' Internal Audit Report, your payment (theoretically) should be allocated to the oldest debt if it does not exactly match your instalment amount for the current year.

 

 

"
3
.
3
.
2
The council tax system has built in allocation rules to ensure that the law with respect to specified payments is met. For instance, if a customer has a payment plan for any year of debt and the payment they make matches the planned instalment then the money will be allocated to that year (this is known as “
hard
” allocation on the council tax system). If the system is unable to “
hard allocate
” then it will instead “soft” allocate and the debt will be used against the oldest debt unless manually adjusted.

 

Though of course, with the council, its always better to have something in writing and getting them to confirm they have received it.

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