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IS IT ME?

Repossession questioned by deeds not being signed

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Hey all, can you answer the following question for me?

 

Let's say that a mortgage deed is rendered void for whatever reason, what happens in regard to the advancement of the money from the lender to the borrower, is the lender entitled to their money back?

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Sarcasm aside - I guess we're just wondering if you actually have one of these mortgages where the deed is unsigned? that's all.

 

Oh, I see....sarcasm aside....

 

There is no purposeful point in directing your question at me.....this is Is It Me's friends thread.....perhaps you should ask Is It Me if he requires assistance from you ....

 

I'n doing my best, but I'm sure that if you lend your 'legal' prowess/knowlege/experience to assist; I cannot see that he would refuse it???

 

Apple


[COLOR="red"][B][CENTER]"Errors do not cease to be errors simply because they’re ratified into law.” [/CENTER][/B][/COLOR][B][CENTER] E.A. Bucchianeri[/CENTER][/B]

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Hey all, can you answer the following question for me?

 

Let's say that a mortgage deed is rendered void for whatever reason, what happens in regard to the advancement of the money from the lender to the borrower, is the lender entitled to their money back?

 

The lender should be entitled to their unsecured cash I'd have thought, however surely the borrower should be due restitution for being completely misinformed/mislead/misguided with t&c's making absolutely no mention of the lenders intentions. This restitution may include all interest payments, for the length of the mortgage and any arrears payments, if any. This would substantially reduce the debt. The next question would be how should this redress be paid? In the form of cash or reducing the balance. I'm not sure the lender deserves the right to choose for breaking the law in the first place do you?!

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Sarcasm aside - I guess we're just wondering if you actually have one of these mortgages where the deed is unsigned? that's all.

 

Oh, I see....sarcasm aside....

 

There is no purposeful point in directing your question at me.....this is Is It Me's friends thread.....perhaps you should ask Is It Me if he requires assistance from you ....

 

I'n doing my best, but I'm sure that if you lend your 'legal' prowess/knowlege/experience to assist; I cannot see that he would refuse it???

 

Apple

 

 

I think this is where there is so much confusion, Apple. You say it is IsitMe's friends' thread, however you seem to have taken it over and one could be forgiven for thinking that you have motive other than simply trying to help someone out and was the reason for both Ellen and me asking if you have one of these mortgages, or if you have been a victim of a similar situation?

 

You seem to be pretty quick to demand knowledge of other people, why are you reluctant to answer this question ?


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Forget the property. Forget the deed. Even forget the registration issue. As I cannot see there being a restitution issue at all. Mortgages are generally a very cheap form of borrowing, I can't see a court agreeing with that personally. If the courts agree with you the end result is likely to be that it's simply viewed by the courts as a loan, and that would consist of the terms within the contract. My gut feeling is that even if the deed can be challenged by you guys the lender will be able to recover their money either by going down the CCJ+charging order route, or possibly via insolvency proceedings.

 

Ultimately this has the potential to put the borrower in an even weaker position as they wouldn't have as much legal protection. Kinda ironic, no?

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Oh, I see....sarcasm aside....

 

There is no purposeful point in directing your question at me.....this is Is It Me's friends thread.....perhaps you should ask Is It Me if he requires assistance from you ....

 

I'n doing my best, but I'm sure that if you lend your 'legal' prowess/knowlege/experience to assist; I cannot see that he would refuse it???

 

Apple

 

I disagree that there is no purposeful point in asking you that question - it would be unusual for someone who is not (or has been) in the same position as those you are attempting to advise given the seriousness of some of the situations i.e. the possibility of losing the roof over their head.

 

Fortunately for you I am relatively thick skinned, otherwise I might take offence at the tone of your responses, which have lately become a touch acidic.


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Hi

It's a thought may be a way out

I would like to ask the site team why they are questioning apples motives when I see no help or advice given, I for one am more than happy and appreciate there help

 

I hope you feel the same way next year :)

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Forget the property. Forget the deed. Even forget the registration issue. As I cannot see there being a restitution issue at all. Mortgages are generally a very cheap form of borrowing, I can't see a court agreeing with that personally. If the courts agree with you the end result is likely to be that it's simply viewed by the courts as a loan, and that would consist of the terms within the contract. My gut feeling is that even if the deed can be challenged by you guys the lender will be able to recover their money either by going down the CCJ+charging order route, or possibly via insolvency proceedings.

 

Ultimately this has the potential to put the borrower in an even weaker position as they wouldn't have as much legal protection. Kinda ironic, no?

 

When a deed is proved to be void and therefore set aside then there is no charge. A borrower thought their property was secured, in fact it isn't/wasn't. Also most borrowers signed a deed with t&c's incorporated. No mention of a lenders intentions. They have profiteered off the back of their lies without even producing a valid contract agreement. How can the borrower be due nothing from this? And even in a worse position? A borrower has been completely misguided..

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When a deed is proved to be void and therefore set aside then there is no charge. A borrower thought their property was secured, in fact it isn't/wasn't. Also most borrowers signed a deed with t&c's incorporated. No mention of a lenders intentions. They have profiteered off the back of their lies without even producing a valid contract agreement. How can the borrower be due nothing from this? And even in a worse position? A borrower has been completely misguided..

 

The security and the borrowing are two separate entities, no? I just can't see how there would be any loss/damage incurred by the borrower for not having a valid deed. The borrower was the person that made the application to borrow the money, they got their money based upon terms that the agreed to. And as I mentioned earlier it is certainly the case that secured loans attract more favourable rates than those that are unsecured. The borrower would agree to a mortgage under the proviso that the money was to be secured. If it ends up not being then surely their outcome is actually one which is more favourable, no?

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I think this is where there is so much confusion, Apple. You say it is IsitMe's friends' thread, however you seem to have taken it over and one could be forgiven for thinking that you have motive other than simply trying to help someone out and was the reason for both Ellen and me asking if you have one of these mortgages, or if you have been a victim of a similar situation?

 

You seem to be pretty quick to demand knowledge of other people, why are you reluctant to answer this question ?

 

CitizenB

 

the fact is....Is It Me is being assisted.....

 

That's what the CaG is about...not about questioning each others motives..... I do not ask you or any site team member why you are not assisting Is It Me in his/her decision to follow this route....and I do not ask any one of you why you do not do so....although you all at some point make it clear what your views are.....

 

 

 

It is the CaG and it's members that benefit after all.....again...is that not what the CaG is about?

 

Apple

Edited by ims21

[COLOR="red"][B][CENTER]"Errors do not cease to be errors simply because they’re ratified into law.” [/CENTER][/B][/COLOR][B][CENTER] E.A. Bucchianeri[/CENTER][/B]

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I came on this thread to ask you a question which you seem reluctant to answer, fair enough - your choice. I have never treated you (or anyone else on this thread) with anything other than courtesy, nor have I been rude or sarcastic - I have asked questions with genuine interest, yet you respond with sarcasm which does nothing for your credibility.

 

I will not post futher on this thread as you obviously wish to discourage anyone who does not buy into your theory.

 

Good luck with your cause.


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Please consider making a donation, however small, if you have benefited from advice on the forums

 

 

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The security and the borrowing are two separate entities, no? I just can't see how there would be any loss/damage incurred by the borrower for not having a valid deed. The borrower was the person that made the application to borrow the money, they got their money based upon terms that the agreed to. And as I mentioned earlier it is certainly the case that secured loans attract more favourable rates than those that are unsecured. The borrower would agree to a mortgage under the proviso that the money was to be secured. If it ends up not being then surely their outcome is actually one which is more favourable, no?

 

The security and the borrowing are separate yes.... However the terms are incorporated into the deed and for most is all that's signed, so if the deed is deemed to be void, has the borrower any terms? The stupid lender has basically given me some money. On the hope the world will never find out! No terms no agreement no contract. Cheers!,

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I can't see it working like that I'm afraid. If the security fails the loan would still stand. I'm absolutely sure if it. And I'm absolutely certain the courts will think the same. Apple's arguments are not things I deal with daily but contracts are.

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I hope you feel the same way next year :)

 

 

I can understand the site team feeling the way they do....they assert that the passion is on my part.... yet, there is clear 'passion' on their own part too....

 

We agree to disagree ...... the application is already in..... there is no stopping the ball from rolling ...... there is nothing that any site team member or I or Is It Me can do now....we have to allow this to run it's course....

 

We beleive Is It Me's Friend will be fine....The site team do not....

 

It is Is It Me's Friends risk... not mine, not the site teams......

 

Is It Me's friend is happy with the way things are going.... and so he should be...... 4 solicitors have turned their backs so far... that's a good sign..... in the right direction....

 

We are strong, we are vigilant, we are focused.....the site teams passion is welcomed but not necessary......this matter and the issues will run it's course....

 

Apple


[COLOR="red"][B][CENTER]"Errors do not cease to be errors simply because they’re ratified into law.” [/CENTER][/B][/COLOR][B][CENTER] E.A. Bucchianeri[/CENTER][/B]

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I can't see it working like that I'm afraid. If the security fails the loan would still stand. I'm absolutely sure if it. And I'm absolutely certain the courts will think the same. Apple's arguments are not things I deal with daily but contracts are.

 

You deal with void deeds daily? A slightly different reality than a usual contract don't you think!

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You deal with void deeds daily? A slightly different reality than a usual contract don't you think!

 

I deal with mortgages daily and am pretty well versed with land law all round. I've never come across an argument akin to Apple's working before. But if they were to work the lenders are still going to be entitled to their money back - and I can't see the courts agreeing that the terms would be unfair.

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I deal with mortgages daily and am pretty well versed with land law all round. I've never come across an argument akin to Apple's working before. But if they were to work the lenders are still going to be entitled to their money back - and I can't see the courts agreeing that the terms would be unfair.

 

Agree to disagree mate but the terms are there on the proviso of a valid deed and if it's void then this is a different situation altogether. Let's concentrate on the void deed first I think!

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Let's concentrate on the void deed first I think!

 

No worries! :)

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I came on this thread to ask you a question which you seem reluctant to answer, fair enough - your choice. I have never treated you (or anyone else on this thread) with anything other than courtesy, nor have I been rude or sarcastic - I have asked questions with genuine interest, yet you respond with sarcasm which does nothing for your credibility.

 

I will not post futher on this thread as you obviously wish to discourage anyone who does not buy into your theory.

 

Good luck with your cause.

 

 

 

The 'Cause'...is on a roll..... it will come to its natural conclusion....

 

We are cool as cucumbers around here...for I am merely stating that which is the case....

 

We know there is NO DEFENCE.....

 

Apple


[COLOR="red"][B][CENTER]"Errors do not cease to be errors simply because they’re ratified into law.” [/CENTER][/B][/COLOR][B][CENTER] E.A. Bucchianeri[/CENTER][/B]

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We know there is NO DEFENCE.....

 

That's simply opinion until a decision is made at the chamber. Other folks have differing opinions. There is nothing that has been stated as material fact that I have been able to find at this time (and I have access to every major legal database going).

 

By the way, Apple, I assume you're living in rented accommodation? I think you alluded to that fact a few weeks back?

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That's simply opinion until a decision is made at the chamber. Other folks have differing opinions. There is nothing that has been stated as material fact that I have been able to find at this time (and I have access to every major legal database going).

 

Sequenci

 

The ball is rolling.....stop stressing... your legal database will get a few additions in due course ; )

 

Apple


[COLOR="red"][B][CENTER]"Errors do not cease to be errors simply because they’re ratified into law.” [/CENTER][/B][/COLOR][B][CENTER] E.A. Bucchianeri[/CENTER][/B]

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Agree to disagree mate but the terms are there on the proviso of a valid deed and if it's void then this is a different situation altogether. Let's concentrate on the void deed first I think!

 

The site team have made it clear.... they are as passionate about this issue as we are......

 

The ball is rolling.....we are seeing solicitors appointed...but by who?......perhaps the site team would like to assist us understand who is appointing these solicitors ....after all there is a site team member with access to every legal database.....

 

The said site team member works 'with' the authorities.....this surely must be of assistance to us here on this point??

 

Apple


[COLOR="red"][B][CENTER]"Errors do not cease to be errors simply because they’re ratified into law.” [/CENTER][/B][/COLOR][B][CENTER] E.A. Bucchianeri[/CENTER][/B]

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The site team have made it clear.... they are as passionate about this issue as we are......

 

The ball is rolling.....we are seeing solicitors appointed...but by who?......perhaps the site team would like to assist us understand who is appointing these solicitors ....after all there is a site team member with access to every legal database.....

 

The said site team member works 'with' the authorities.....this surely must be of assistance to us here on this point??

 

Apple

 

Well I can tell you this.

 

1. There isn't general discussion in the circles I move in about this issue.

2. There isn't a single piece of case law that I've managed to find that specific states that a mortgage deed is void if the lender doesn't sign it as far as residential mortgages are concerned.

 

I look forward to any developments, I find it incredibly interesting.

 

For the record, given that you're such a hit shot in this area, why don't you work within the field?

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That's simply opinion until a decision is made at the chamber. Other folks have differing opinions. There is nothing that has been stated as material fact that I have been able to find at this time (and I have access to every major legal database going).

 

By the way, Apple, I assume you're living in rented accommodation? I think you alluded to that fact a few weeks back?

 

sorry, looks like you amended your post......

 

where I live does not alter the LAW and it will not affect the outcome of the decision at the Chamber......this is about Is It Me's Friend....do you want to concentrate your interest there please...that what we call being professional.....keep the thread on point please... ; )

 

Apple

Edited by applecart
closed the gap left after site team edited my post

[COLOR="red"][B][CENTER]"Errors do not cease to be errors simply because they’re ratified into law.” [/CENTER][/B][/COLOR][B][CENTER] E.A. Bucchianeri[/CENTER][/B]

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style="text-align:center;"> Please note that this topic has not had any new posts for the last 2116 days.

If you are trying to post a different story then you should start your own new thread. Posting on this thread is likely to mean that you won't get the help and advice that you need.

If you are trying to post information which is relevant to the story in this thread then please flag it up to the site team and they will allow you to post.

Thank you
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