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issued with Littering from a car - Fixed Penalty notice - [fag end]


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Hi, not sure i,m doing this correct !

 

had a fpn...sct 87.reads .at approx 0800 hrs on...

..an officer employed by council witnessed the black male driver of.(car and reg), throw a cigarette end out of drivers window.

 

the offence took place as vehicle was driving from the ringroad into the city centre .

 

the vehicle then continued driving along....st,leaving the litter behind .

 

the witness has produced a statement under the provisions of the criminal justice act 1967,

which will be treated as evidence .

 

if you were the driver .

.£50 fpn..

if you weren't the driver .

...they want name ..

. what should i do to deny this and they obv searched for registered keeper

...help please .

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Hi jmc2000

 

Welcome to CAG I have moved you to your own thread only administrative so you dont need to do anything.

 

Please in the mean time have a look around the forum and I am sure the caggers will be along to give you some good advice.

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I cannot give any advice by PM - If you provide a link to your Thread then I will be happy to offer advice there.

I advise to the best of my ability, but I am not a qualified professional, benefits lawyer nor Welfare Rights Adviser.

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Your doing ok at the moment so don't worry other caggers will be along to give advice

How to Upload Documents/Images on CAG - **INSTRUCTIONS CLICK HERE**

FORUM RULES - Please ensure to read these before posting **FORUM RULES CLICK HERE**

I cannot give any advice by PM - If you provide a link to your Thread then I will be happy to offer advice there.

I advise to the best of my ability, but I am not a qualified professional, benefits lawyer nor Welfare Rights Adviser.

Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

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advice by PM (Private Message)

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I cannot give any advice by PM - If you provide a link to your Thread then I will be happy to offer advice there.

I advise to the best of my ability, but I am not a qualified professional, benefits lawyer nor Welfare Rights Adviser.

Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

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They must of got name off car reg..

cos addressed to the person who is r/k of vehicle.

 

.Not know anything until fpn arrived in the post the day after alledgd offence.

 

Do they have to av photo evidence or is their 'visual' evidence proof ?

also the driver was mixed race..(light skinned)

 

can they use 'black male' ??

Edited by jmc2000
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They can only issue a FPN to someone they actually find littering - s.88, Environmental Protection Act 1990.

 

There are no powers to subsequently issue a FPN, or for a registered keeper of a motor vehicle to identify anyone.

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Hang on a minute...."officer employed by council"... spot the deliberate mistake? FPN... council's do not issue these, only police and they have to be physically served as far as I know.

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

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Hang on a minute...."officer employed by council"... spot the deliberate mistake? FPN... council's do not issue these, only police and they have to be physically served as far as I know.

 

No, FPNs can be issued by an authorised officer - s.88, Environmental Protection Act 1990.

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No, FPNs can be issued by an authorised officer - s.88, Environmental Protection Act 1990.

 

Yes but is this a motoring matter?

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

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Yes but is this a motoring matter?

 

http://www.thisishullandeastriding.co.uk/Motorist-prosecuted-dropping-cigarette-end/story-17946980-detail/story.html#axzz2T539sHNn

 

I don't think the motoring part comes into it

 

..an officer employed by council witnessed the black male driver of.(car and reg), throw a cigarette end out of drivers window.

 

The car could have been moving, parked, or the driver could have been in charge of a bicycle, pram or pogo-stick.

 

The only link to the vehicle is that somebody has been observed dropping litter from the drivers side, Currently the person notified is the registered keeper, presumably from the DVLA records. Unless there is a multiple user insurance policy on the vehicle, or the registered keeper can provide counterproof they were not in charge of the vehicle at the time, that places them in the drivers seat.

 

Why did they not use the ashtray ?

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http://www.thisishullandeastriding.co.uk/Motorist-prosecuted-dropping-cigarette-end/story-17946980-detail/story.html#axzz2T539sHNn

 

I don't think the motoring part comes into it

 

..an officer employed by council witnessed the black male driver of.(car and reg), throw a cigarette end out of drivers window.

 

The car could have been moving, parked, or the driver could have been in charge of a bicycle, pram or pogo-stick.

 

The only link to the vehicle is that somebody has been observed dropping litter from the drivers side, Currently the person notified is the registered keeper, presumably from the DVLA records. Unless there is a multiple user insurance policy on the vehicle, or the registered keeper can provide counterproof they were not in charge of the vehicle at the time, that places them in the drivers seat.

 

In one way it is similar to a motoring offence, in that the person committing the offence has to be identified before the issue of a FPN or dealing with the matter by means of a summons to court - and they may, or may not, be the registered keeper.

 

The Road Traffic Act 1988 has s.172 which requires the keeper to identify the driver in the case of road traffic matters.

 

There is no similar legislation in the Environmental Protection Act 1990 which requires the registered keeper to identify the person who dropped the litter. If they cannot identify that person, that is the end of the matter. Which is one reason why they send the letter and word it the way they do - if the registered keeper replies and identifies the person who dropped the litter....................................

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In one way it is similar to a motoring offence, in that the person committing the offence has to be identified before the issue of a FPN or dealing with the matter by means of a summons to court - and they may, or may not, be the registered keeper.

 

The Road Traffic Act 1988 has s.172 which requires the keeper to identify the driver in the case of road traffic matters.

 

There is no similar legislation in the Environmental Protection Act 1990 which requires the registered keeper to identify the person who dropped the litter. If they cannot identify that person, that is the end of the matter. Which is one reason why they send the letter and word it the way they do - if the registered keeper replies and identifies the person who dropped the litter....................................

 

Keeping schtum is the best way of dealing with this then. Unless the legislation makes the RK culpable in the absence of an actual person.

Is there a 'guilty by association' clause in the EPA (one person in a group drops litter, everybody there shares responsibility) ?

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Is there a 'guilty by association' clause in the EPA (one person in a group drops litter, everybody there shares responsibility) ?

 

s.87 and s.88 E.P.A. only refer to 'a person', nothing about anyone else being liable.

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I thought that the law had changed to allow the prosecution of the driver or keeper of a vehicle where a passenger is seen throwing litter from it. Would this be covered by the same? If so, the argumant is not about who was in the car but whether the witness got their details right, ie was the offence committed and were the vehicle details correct.

If you were elsewhere then tell them they are just plain wrong, if you were there but didnt throw a fag end ask them to produce the ciggy butt and ask for forensic testing (and huge compensation if they are wrong for malicious prosecution)

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I thought that the law had changed to allow the prosecution of the driver or keeper of a vehicle where a passenger is seen throwing litter from it.

 

What law?

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Shall i put...dear sirs, I am happy to release the identity of the driver once you provide me with photographic evidence of the said offence involving the car ...reg..

......

the car was there but i am disputing throwing a fag end...and unless they have photo evidence how can they prove it came from my car,

When the bin men empty our bins they leave any rubbish that falls on the floor....on the floor!!!!!

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