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Arrow Global v Taylor in court end of mth need help plz


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Hello

I need a little help with this its regards to an old MBNA account I had and the debt was for £262.45. I started getting a couple of letters from Shoosmiths LLP saying they would take me to court (and they filled with the courts 14th Jan). I sent them a letter asking for a copy of the contract, T&C's ect. They sent a copy of an application form. Sent them a letter say I will see you in court.

Then Arrow Global dropped Shoosmiths saying they were dealing with it in house and they have Notice Of Assignment & and stated Law of Property act 1925. Told them I have had notice they claim to have sent and would like a copy of this as well as proof of postage.

They then sent a repopulated copy dated 19/01/2012 no proof of postage.

 

My question is because I have not been sent this in accordance with the Law of Property act 1925 ( registered post ect) when I go to court in a few weeks can I ask the judge to throw it out or is there anything else I should do regards this as they have taken court action without legally owning the debt.

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I will try and find you some help. I rather suspect that they have no need to send these by registered post now. Although I am not absolutely certain.

 

Just a few questions so that others looking in will have a wider view of the situation

 

When did you cease making payments to MBNA and why?

 

Were you in dispute with them for some reason.

 

Did MBNA ever send you a Default Notice ? If they did and you have a copy, then if you could edit and post it up for us to have a look at, that would be great.

 

Were there any default/penalty charges applied

 

What did you say in your defence when you submitted it.

 

What did the Particulars of Claim say ? The reason they are making their claim.

 

 

Yes, Arrow Global tend to use solicitors only for the issuing of a claim, if the claim is then defended they take it back in house. I suspect in order to keep an eye on their own costs.

 

I am sure others looking in will think of more questions to ask, but if you could answer those above, it will be a start.

 

If you are going to post any documents up for us to have a look at, please follow the instructions below :)

 

Dx100 – Instructions on uploading pdfs

scan the requiredletters/agreements/sheets

as a picture file

remove all pers info inc barcodes etc using paint

but leave all figures and dates.

goto one of the many free online pdf converter websites

convert the image to pdf format.

or ir you have PDF as an installed printer drive use that

open a new msg box here

hit go advanced below the msg box

hit manage attachments below that box

hit the add files button on the top right

hit select files, navigate to your file on your pc

hit upload files

NB:you can set where it goes in the post by hitting insert inline.

the hit reply button

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PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Hello thank you for that.

 

I ceased making payments in or last one was made 16th Sept 2009 the reason being I split from my other half and was left alone with 2 children. I will post all other docs once iv downloaded them.

 

In my defence I stated that I never held an account with Arrow Global and required them to prove I did.

 

Yes there was a default notice that was applied to the statement or at least I think it is they also added a £12 late charge.

 

Particulars of Claim

1, The claimants claim is for the sum of 262.45 being monies due from the defendant to the claimant under regulated agreement between the defendant and MBNA Europe Bank Limited(No xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)and assigned to the claimant on 20/12/2011, notice of which as been provided to the defendant.

 

2, The defendant has failed to make payment in accordance with the terms of the agreement and a default notice served pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

3, The claimant claims the sum of 262.45

 

4, C has complied, as far as necessary, wi the pre-action conduct practice direction. Number

 

and that's it, however I never got a copy of the assignment till 14/03/13 . I will paste letters I sent both Shoosmiths and Arrow then download the others.

 

ShoosmithsLLP Solicitors

Dear Sir/Madam

ACCOUNT NUMBER:

YOUR REF/ YOUR REF:

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY

With reference to the above account, I request thatyou send me a true copy of this credit agreement before we will correspondfurther on this matter.

This is my right under the legislation containedwithin section 77 (1) and section 78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, I amentitled to receive a copy of my credit agreement on request.

Your obligation also extends to providing myselfwith a statement of account. I enclose a £1 postal order, which representspayment of the statutory fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act. A copy mycredit agreement should be supplied within 12 working days from the date ofthis letter.

Under the Consumer Credit Act, creditors are unableto enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with a request for a copy of theagreement under these sections of the Act.

Also, since you are a Debt Collection Agency, weask that you supply a signed true copy of the executed deed of assignment forthe above referenced agreement. This is an obligation, whether you are theoriginal creditor or not, under section 189 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

For the sake of clarity, I would also draw yourattention to the following:

Consumer Credit Act 1974 s.175

Where under this Act a person is deemed to receive a notice or payment as agentof the creditor or owner under the regulated agreement, he shall be deemed tobe under a contractual duty to the creditor or owner to transmit the notice, orremit the payment, to him forthwith.

In summary, I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE THIS DEBT ANDTHEREFORE REQUIRES YOU TO SUBSTANTIATE THIS BY PROVIDING THE FOLLOWINGDOCUMENTATION BEFORE WE CORRESPOND FURTHE :

1. Truecopy of original signed executed credit agreement

2. FULL Statement of account

3. Copy of the executed deed of assignment from (original creditor) and (DCA)

4. A fair processing notice.

As you are aware, a credit agreement that is notproperly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable underthe CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

Take note at this stage, that any legal action youmay contemplate will be both vigorously defended and contested.

Further to the above, please ensure that anycontact by yourselves is made in writing only to the above address. Telephonecalls and personal visits will not be accepted and viewed as harassment.

We look forward to hearing from you within the statutory time limit.

We would appreciate your due diligence in thismatter.

We look forward to hearing from you in writing.

NXT LETTER

 

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY

With reference to the above account, I havereceived your letter dated 15th November 2012.

In your letter dated 21st September 2012you state and I quote “If we cannot agree during the next 14 days how you willrepay the outstanding to Arrow Global Guernsey Limited, We will issue CourtProceedings”.

Where is the credit agreement you claim I havetaken out with Arrow Global Guernsey Limited ?

What you have sent me is an application form for anMBNA card. I have NEVER applied forcredit with this Arrow Global Guernsey Limited.

What I requested was a True copy of original signedexecuted credit agreement With Arrow Global that you claim I have a creditagreement with. This you have failed to show me.

If you threaten further court action I will ask thecourts for this information as you seem not to be able to supply me with such asimple request.

Also in accordance with the Consumer Credit Act1974 you have failed to comply with my request to supply me with a true copy ofthe agreement with Arrow Global within the 12 days along with my other requestsin relation to this alleged account I have with Arrow Global

I would appreciate your due diligence in thismatter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

Yours faithfully

 

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If you go from 1 to 11 that's them in order

 

Thank you for all your help

Edited by dx100uk
document merged to one file lots of pers data removed - dx
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Ok, well a Default Notice is actually a statutory requirement that is required to be sent if the agreement is / was regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

It would be headed as the image shown below.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]43743[/ATTACH]

 

It would then go on to advise the clause you have breached and what you must do to remedy that breach and by when.

 

The DN can only ask for genuine arrears - it must allow 14 clear days and allow time for posting.

 

MBNA had considerable problems providing DNs that complied with the statutory / mandatory requirements.

 

They would send DNs via UK mail using their 2nd class service which would usually find the recipient having less than the mandatory period to remedy.

 

The posting times are .. 2 business days for 1st class post and 4 business days for 2nd class post. "Business days are Monday to Friday and excludes bank holidays".

 

Say a DN was dated on a day that was a Friday. This would mean the countdown for the Posting time would not start until the Monday, thereby reducing the time on the Notice by 2 days. MBNA DNs would usually only have a 14 day time period from the date of the DN to remedy, so already they were non compliant as no time had been factored in for mailing.

 

You should also have been receiving Arrears notices - these are a separate Document that only came into being around 2008. Did you ever receive those ?

 

If you weren't advised of the Assignment in the first place then their right to bring this claim can certainly be questioned. So they would need to prove that it was indeed sent. Repopulating a letter, IMHO doesn't prove that it was drafted and sent in the first instance.

 

For the s78 (CCA) request you should have received.

 

A copy of the agreement or reconstituted document.

Copies of the terms and conditions from inception

Copies of the terms and conditions that were current at the time of default.

A statement of account.

 

If the above was not provided to you at the time of the request then they have failed to comply with the s78 request and should not have issued the claim.

 

A reconstituted document is acceptable for the compliance of s78 request, but not necessarily for a court action.

 

I think you need to start looking at the documents you have been provided with. Do the statements, terms and conditions and the agreement have any discrepancies regarding the interest rates for instance!

 

Do you know how much was applied to the outstanding balance by way of Default / Penalty charges, these can be reclaimed.

 

I will try and find some recent MBNA links for you so you can see what you need to be looking for.

 

BRB

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PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?386853-Meebroke-Heads-to-Court

 

This is an MBNA account that is being claimed by Aktiv Capital (similar to Arrow Global) - it is quite long, but you will be able to see what is going on.

 

I am sure you will have a few visitors over the weekend :)

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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

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2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Hi thank you very much for the help it much appreciated.

 

I got another letter from Arrow today (attached) not sure if they are wanting to avoid taking this to court but im kind of looking forward to it. Not sure if that's a good thing but I think I have a case for them to answer so I prepared to take a risk.

 

Also I have attached a copy of the DN I got from MBNA. I don't recall any Arrears notices been sent other than what I have attached. They have sent a copy of the application form, Some T&C's which I can hardly make out as reading through it it says FINACIAL AND RELATED CONDITIONS on it there is a table that I suspect sets out interest rates but very hard to read, but cant make out what the rest say as the type is so small and looks out of focus. There is then 4 more pages headed terms and conditions with no credit limit, interest rates or date of payment. I then have a copy of what must be an updated copy of T&C's as it has my latest address which differs from the application form and much different interest rates which are 34.9% which differ to what the DN I have posted says.

 

Thanks again for your help

 

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]43749[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]43748[/ATTACH]

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196 Regulations respecting notices.

 

(1)Any notice required or authorised to be served or given by this Act shall be in writing.

 

(2)Any notice required or authorised by this Act to be served on a lessee or mortgagor shall be sufficient, although only addressed to the lessee or mortgagor by that designation, without his name, or generally to the persons interested, without any name, and notwithstanding that any person to be affected by the notice is absent, under disability, unborn, or unascertained.

 

(3)Any notice required or authorised by this Act to be served shall be sufficiently served if it is left at the last-known place of abode or business in the United Kingdom of the lessee, lessor, mortgagee, mortgagor, or other person to be served, or, in case of a notice required or authorised to be served on a lessee or mortgagor, is affixed or left for him on the land or any house or building comprised in the lease or mortgage, or, in case of a mining lease, is left for the lessee at the office or counting-house of the mine.

 

(4)Any notice required or authorised by this Act to be served shall also be sufficiently served, if it is sent by post in a registered letter addressed to the lessee, lessor, mortgagee, mortgagor, or other person to be served, by name, at the aforesaid place of abode or business, office, or counting-house, and if that letter is not returned [F1by the postal operator (within the meaning of the Postal Services Act 2000) concerned] undelivered; and that service shall be deemed to be made at the time at which the registered letter would in the ordinary course be delivered.

 

(5)The provisions of this section shall extend to notices required to be served by any instrument affecting property executed or coming into operation after the commencement of this Act unless a contrary intention appears.

 

(6)This section does not apply to notices served in proceedings in the court.

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Russ, neither of those documents is a Default Notice

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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

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Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Had anyone contacted you in respect of the free mediation service ?

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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

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Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Had anyone contacted you in respect of the free mediation service ?

 

Hello yes they did but when I spoke to them and explained what was going on and what I required from them and that Arrow were drip feeding me info. They said basically they were there to try sort out a payment plan and the rest would be for the courts to sort out. I was less than impressed and left it at that.

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Yes, there has not been much good said about the mediation service, Mike. In fact didn't I see one a few months back where there was a judgment handed down !

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Thanks all.

 

So when I go to court should I be asking the Judge for it to be struck out as Arrow have not complied fully with the Law of Property Act 1925. Because when they issued court proceedings on 14th Jan 2013 they had not issued myself with the Assignment Notice by way of the requirements of this Act. I first got a copy of this on 14th March 2013 which still was not sent in the way the Act states and is just a repopulated copy. I have asked them for a copy of proof of postage and never got it. So in accordance with this Act its still an equitable assignment which if i'm correct means they have no write bringing this action to court. What are my chances ?

 

Regards

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As it stands:

Sued balance £262.45

Issue Fee £15.00

Solicitor fixed cost £50.00

Hearing Fee £25.00

Advocate attendance fee £220.00 not sure what this is for

 

Well I think im putting in a proper defence. It all has to be in by Wed this week and im currently doing my statement for the bundle.

 

Many Regards

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Some advice for you :)

 

 

 

I suppose there is no risk in arguing and proceeding as this is SCT and if lost she could pay the £262 within 28. Obviously they have purchased the debt..they wouldn't risk commencing litigation in their name if they were not the legal owner of the debt.

 

 

Challenging the service of Notice of Assignment is risky on the the grounds of " proof of postage " no NoA,s are ever sent recorded delivery... doesn't happen.Challenging the NoA on its validity form and content may have more strength.

 

The underlying determining factor though is it her debt and is there a dispute?

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

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Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Hi I would just like to thank you all for your help in this. I had a letter from them today saying they are pulling the plug on the court case at the minute. Guess that's because they know they don't have much, however state the money is still owing..Copy of letter attached. So I would be correct in thinking that come Sept it becomes statute barred as it will become over six years old?

 

Once again thank you all.

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Hi I would just like to thank you all for your help in this. I had a letter from them today saying they are pulling the plug on the court case at the minute. Guess that's because they know they don't have much, however state the money is still owing..Copy of letter attached. So I would be correct in thinking that come Sept it becomes statute barred as it will become over six years old?

 

Once again thank you all.

 

 

Well this is good news indeed however, I would suggest you check with the court on Monday to ensure that they have filed the discontinuance at the court.

 

You say the last payment you made was on 16th September 2009 - if this is correct, then sadly the debt wont be statute barred until October 2015 :(

 

To become SB'd you must not have paid any money or acknowledged liability for 6 years from the first missed payment.

 

Please ensure you keep the letter of discontinuance somewhere safe - DO NOT destroy it until at least the SB date has come and gone !

 

One thing that is very misleading in their letter is that they say they "will continue to record the debt on your Credit File until the debt is paid". They cannot do this. The recording MUST stop 6 years after the default date !!

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Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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