Noisy Neighbours

[Phil (Zippy)]

Hi,

 

I would welcome any advice regarding noisy neighbours.

 

A brief story:

 

I moved into my ground floor flat a couple of years ago through a housing association. I was quite happy until the neighbours children above me ( a two bedroom flat) started making a racket. Banging doors, running, jumping about, dropping heavy things on the floor, screaming and shouting etc.

 

I complained to my neighbours at first and then the landlord. Anyway too cut a long story short they got moved because they were overcrowded - two adults and three young children.

 

Now I have new neighbours - two adults and a young child. Then I find I am being awoken at 5.30 in the morning by their child (about 6 or 7) STOMPING across the floor! The first couple of months I have lived with it. But just recently it has finally got to me and I paid my neighbour upstairs a visit. Admittedly I was a bit angry but I explained to them that I wasn't too happy about being awoken at 5.30 AM. He sort of apologised and explained that his child has Autism!

 

Anyway, since then I have had an email from my landlord that is as follows:

 

Dear ***

 

"I understand that you knocked on the door of your neighbours recently to complain about their family noise.

 

Your actions appeared threatening and frightened the female tenant and her daughter who has special needs. If you have further cause for complaint please do not contact them directly but contact Greenfields instead.

 

I do have to remind you though that there is nothing we could do about family noise so discussing this in a polite manner would have been the best way forward in the first instance. Should you have cause to complain in the future about family noise I will suggest mediation as the best way forward so you can come to a mutual agreement with mediators present."

 

I have replied with my own email as follows:

 

Dear ***

 

yes I did knock on the door regarding noise from their child STOMPING across the floor at 5.30 in the morning which I wasn't too happy about and for your records I was not threatening. Can you please elaborate how I was supposed to have 'threatened' them?

 

I was annoyed, yes, but at no point did I threaten them! Since they have now escalated my own complaint into a complaint of their own. I wish to make a counter complaint against their allegations.

 

May I remind you that under the tenancy contract I signed: Under part C, section 1:

 

You are responsible for keeping to the

terms of this Tenancy Agreement. You

are also responsible for the conduct

and behaviour of the members of your

household and visitors to your home,

including pets and young children.

 

and also section 7:

 

Everyone has the right to quiet enjoyment

of their home without suffering nuisance

and disturbance from others. You,

your household and visitors should

respect other people who live in your

neighbourhood.

Your responsibilities for your own

behaviour, members of your household,

pets and visitors are not only confined

to your home, our staff, contractors

and agents...

 

As this implies that the parents are responsible for their children's conduct YOU are infact in breach of the agreement that I signed.

 

Any further complaints will now be directed towards Greenfields as requested. But I will now start making notes of the times and dates of any disturbances. Perhaps you should inform the tenants of that?

 

Regards

 

As you can see I have quoted my tenancy agreement which is a legally binding contract. At no point did I consider myself threatening and feel they are just trying to make it sound worse.

 

Can somebody please inform me of my rights? Can I take my landlord to court for breach of contract?

 

Best

Phil

[kirmistan]

To be honest you have no recourse with the landlord for breach of contract as they have not broken it (your complaint) is against other tenants (your neighbours ) .

As to the noise complaint as it is would be classed as standard family noise (not nuisance noise) there would no legal recourse there either.

If you really feel that the noise is/ or should be classed as nuisance noise contact your local environment officer at your local council.

 

The best thing to do when dealing with neighbours in these situations to to write 2 letters both the same send one to the neighbour and one to the landlord with a cover letter saying you have sent one to the neighbour and that this is a copy should the neighbour complain it a threatening letter

Approaching someone at their door can be classed as threatening whether or not the intention was so.

[Phil (Zippy)]

Thanks for your reply but as it states in the tenancy agreement signed by the landlord and the tenant:

 

You are responsible for keeping to the

terms of this Tenancy Agreement. You

are also responsible for the conduct

and behaviour of the members of your

household and visitors to your home,

including pets and young children.

 

and:

 

Everyone has the right to quiet enjoyment

of their home without suffering nuisance

and disturbance from others. You,

your household and visitors should

respect other people who live in your

neighbourhood.

Your responsibilities for your own

behaviour, members of your household,

pets and visitors are not only confined

to your home, our staff, contractors

and agents..

 

I really don't see how being woken up at 5.30 by someone STOMPING (loudly enough to wake me up!) in the morning can be classed as 'Standard family noise'

[kirmistan]

Everyone has the right to quiet enjoyment

of their home without suffering nuisance

and disturbance from others. You,

your household and visitors should

respect other people who live in your

neighbourhood.

 

It is hard to define as what is unreasonable to one person can be perfectly acceptable to someone else.

But again it is not your landlords who are in breach of the contract.

As i said in my previous post contact your local environment officer at your local council if your really feel that it is nuisance noise.

[antone]

I've moved this to the Lettings forum, where it should hopefully get more notice.

[Phil (Zippy)]

That is the problem I had with the previous tenant. My Landlord couldn't do anything because they classed it as family noise. This is where the law fails miserably (or does it)

 

I already had informed my local council about the previous tenant and again they said they could not do anything as it is classed as 'family noise'

 

So if I was to let my young nephew stay at mine at the weekend and make as much noise as he likes at whatever time of day or night I wouldn't get a complaint because it would be classed as 'family noise' This is he same excuse that is given time and time again.

 

But if I had a pet dog that barked loudly It would be a different matter? the law as it stands is in ass. But I suppose could start claiming under the noise act 1996:

 

"The legislation states that the noise which is the cause of the complaint must be (or is likely to be) either detrimental to a person’s health and/or it is interfering (or is likely to interfere) with a person’s own enjoyment of their own property and land".

[Phil (Zippy)]

I've moved this to the Lettings forum, where it should hopefully get more notice.

 

Thankyou, as I was unsure which forum it was supposed to be in

[kirmistan]

So if I was to let my young nephew stay at mine at the weekend and make as much noise as he likes at whatever time of day or night I wouldn't get a complaint because it would be classed as 'family noise' This is he same excuse that is given time and time again.

This would be classed as visitor not family as your nephew does not live with you at you address and responsibility for visitors falls to you under your contract.

I would say you could ask them in writing to take some action to reduce the noise by adding rugs / under-carpet padding, but other than that i am sorry to say that the law falls on their side at the moment.

[stu007]

Hi Phil

 

A Couple of Questions?

 

1. Did you see at all what type of flooring they had in the property i.e. Carpet, Laminate etc.

 

2. Does your Tenancy Agreement mention anything about flooring types to be used in your property type i.e if in a multi storey must have carpets or if wish to fit Laminate flooring you must get permission from housing association.

 

This Incident Log may be of use it in PDF Format:

[Phil (Zippy)]

Hi Phil

 

A Couple of Questions?

 

1. Did you see at all what type of flooring they had in the property i.e. Carpet, Laminate etc.

 

2. Does your Tenancy Agreement mention anything about flooring types to be used in your property type i.e if in a multi storey must have carpets or if wish to fit Laminate flooring you must get permission from housing association.

 

This Incident Log may be of use it in PDF Format:

 

Hi Stu

 

I understand that there is a thick carpet in the flat above and in the Tenancy Agreement I think it states that you are not allowed to have laminate flooring.

 

Thanks for the incident log. I will start using if it gets noisy. Since complaining to them it has quietened down.

 

Regards

Phil

[stu007]

Hi Phil

 

Now which Housing Association is this, if you do not wish to say that ok?

 

Also in your initial post the neighbour complaint response from the Housing Association was emailed to you - Now have you given them permission to respond to you in this manner i.e. by email?

[Phil (Zippy)]

Hi Stu,

 

It is Greenfields Community Housing. I haven't specifically given them permission to reply to me by email, but have no problem with them doing so as it is quicker and I have a permanent copy of prior correspondence. Better than having a load of paperwork cluttering up my drawers ;-)

[stu007]

There is a specific reason that I asked that question now I know its so much quicker and less clutter but

 

If you have not given the Housing Association permission to respond in this manner i.e. email (now are you sure that you have not signed anything given permission to HA to correspond by email)

 

If you haven't then that actual email should have been sent in writing to your address but I would need to have a check of there website first for any policies just to be sure so please bear with me.

[Phil (Zippy)]

Hi Stu,

 

I am pretty certain that I have not signed anything to allow them to communicate by email. The only thing I have signed is the Tenancy Agreement.

 

Cheers