Unknown PCN and Bailiffs

[Hackers]

I have received a letter from JBW Bailiffs threatening to attend my address with their ANPR vehicle with the view of seizing and removing my vehicle.

 

They are asking for £468.04 with no breakdown and no sign that they even have a warrant on the letter.

 

Their Client is London Borough of Wandsworth and they have provided a ref which looks like a PCN ref.

 

I went onto the Wandsworth council PCN site to try and find details of this PCN as I have not received any notification. I could not find anything on the site so I have written to Wandsworth Council asking for an explanation.

 

Should I use a SAR with the Council and the Bailiff?

Should I write to the Bailiff, instinct says no.

 

I will update as I get more information and act on advice given.

I would be grateful for advice on how to deal with this.

[Jamberson]

It could be a [problem], but you can't really wait around to see if they write back. Call the council first thing and find out if there is a PCN against the vehicle. If so, you need to assess why you haven't had prior correspondence and decide whether you can challenge things. (There's a process called an Out of Time Statutory Declaration.)

 

If there's no PCN, call JBW (get a phone number from the internet to make sure you're really speaking to them) and check whether they really do have a case against that vehicle.

[Hackers]

Thank you Jamberson

 

I will contact both asap, and will update findings

In the mean time I have taken the precaution of making sure my personal car has been temporarily misplaced

[Hackers]

I contacted Wandsworth Council and they told me the date of the contravention and the address they had for me. They then advised me to contact the TEC to fill out a TE9 and TE7 statement which I have duly done and returned.

Wandsworth Council have also contacted the bailiffs and have put them on hold until end of next week.

 

The parking infringement was for having an expired ticket , and ticket was given 6 minutes after the expiry.

I will update further as it happens

[green_and_mean]

I contacted Wandsworth Council and they told me the date of the contravention and the address they had for me. They then advised me to contact the TEC to fill out a TE9 and TE7 statement which I have duly done and returned.

Wandsworth Council have also contacted the bailiffs and have put them on hold until end of next week.

 

The parking infringement was for having an expired ticket , and ticket was given 6 minutes after the expiry.

I will update further as it happens

 

If the address Wandsworth have is different from where you live its more than likely the warrant JBW have is wrong and unenfoceable.

[ploddertom]

I'll move you to the Bailiff Forum

[Hackers]

Thank you

 

Should I therefore contact the bailiff JBW and ask for the details of their warrant and then tell them that it is unenforceable.

 

I am hoping that the out of time witness statement will be accepted and then the whole process reverts back to the beginning with a PCN and a reduced charge, which I think I will have no option to pay.

[ploddertom]

Did you ask the Bailiffs for the exact address they had on the Warrant? In the meantime you should wait and see what the results of your submission to the TEC are.

[Hackers]

No, I have not as yet contacted the bailiffs. Instead I misplaced my car.

I can contact them tomorrow if worthwhile.

[Jamberson]

You said that Wandsworth Council told you the address they had. Was it the correct address for you?

[Hackers]

Wandsworth Council had my old address to which they had sent the PCN and NTO.

I have since updated them with my new address.

[Jamberson]

In that case it is likely that the warrant also has the old (and therefore incorrect) address.

 

Did you use this info when you filed your witness statement, to explain why you did not deal with the matter before?

[Hackers]

Hello,

 

I have had a response from Income and debt recovery officer at Wandsworth Council. Please find attached response below. I have edited and removed personally identifying information.

 

Hopefully the attachment has worked.

 

I am confused by this response, as I have filled in the TE7 and TE9 form. My reasons given in the TE7 form was

 

" Did not receive PCN or Notice to owner. First I was aware of parking infringement was a letter from bailiffs threatening to seize and remove my car. Wandsworth Council had sent correspondence to my former address. Wandsworth council have put the bailiffs on hold for five days and advised to fill out the out of time witness statement. Wandsworth Council advised that ticket was issued due to parking ticket having expired by under 10 minutes."

 

Not sure what I need to do now, do I await a response from the TEC regarding my TE7 or do I take this response to read that they have not acknowledged my out of time witness statement.

 

Once again your help is appreciated.

[Hackers]

http://images.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/images/attach/doc.gif

[lookinforinfo]

The Council are responding to your letter to them on the 6th May not the letter that you sent to the TEC. In fact the Council are making no comment about your TEC application other than when TEC tell

the Council that they have received your forms that they will put the bailiffs on hold.

[tomtubby]

You have filed an Out of Time witness statement and accordingly, all enforcement of the warrant is now on hold. It is likely that you will not receive a response for approx 6 weeks. It is fair to say that completing the forms correctly is most important to ensure that the application is accepted but sadly, the majority of people do NOT complete the forms correctly at all and this ultimately leads to the applications being rejected.

 

It is not helped by the fact that there are some less reputable websites that positively encourage vehicle owners to file Out of Time statutory declarations purely so as to delay enforcement of the warrant by the bailiff. All that this provides is a short delay and if the application is rejected ( which is very often the case) the warrant becomes live again.

 

It is very difficult to advise how to complete the TE7 as every case is individual.

 

In your case, sadly you have not completed the TE7 correctly and I would expect that it will be rejected. At the moment in time you cannot do anything about it in any event as TEC do NOT allow amended to the forms to be submitted.

 

Please post back when you hear back from TEC and; if the application is rejected you will be given the opportunity to seek a review by way of an N244 application.

 

PS: Please be assured that all enforcement is now on hold.

[Hackers]

]I have had a response, from Wandsworth Council, it appears that my Out of Time statutory declaration was accepted by the TEC however they wish to object to this and have sent me a copy of an affidavit with their objections made to the TEC.

 

I have copied out the letter below, leaving out any identifying parts.

 

Dear ........

 

I refer to the above and the hearing in respect of your application to file an out of date Statutory Declaration. I enclose the Affidavit of the Applicant Borough in response to this application. Please acknowledge safe receipt of this document.

 

Yours Sincerely

 

 

I .... ... of Wandsworth Town Hall, Wandsworth High St, London, SW18 2PU. Make Oath and say as follows:

 

I am employed by the London Borough of Wandsworth, the Applicant Borough, as an income and Debt Recovery Officer within the Environment and Community department. I am familiar with the proceedings issued by the Respondent against the Council. I am duly authorised to make this Statement of Truth.

 

In so far as the facts in this statement of truth are within my knowledge the same are true, otherwise they are true to the best of my knowledge and belief and derived from my perusal of the records and facts held by the Council.

 

These records are `now produced by me marked LC 1 a bundle of Notices sent out to the Respondent by the Applicant.

 

On .. March 2012 @ ..:.. vehicle registration .............. was observed by Civil Enforcement Officer .... in .......... Street SW18 and the vehicle was parked in contravention 19, invalid residents permit/voucher or pay and display.

 

An enquiry was made with the DVLA on .... April 2012 and on .... April 2012 a Notice to Owner was posted to the registered keeper, .......... ( old address ) .......

 

As no payment or Representations were received within the designated time period a Charge Certificate was printed on the .... May 2012.

 

As there was no payment or correspondance received in response to the issue of the Charge Certificate on ..... June 2012 a pre-debt reminder letter was printed and posted to the appellant advising of the intent to register the outstanding penalty as a debt unless it was paid.

 

As there was no payment or correspondance received in response to the issue of the pre debt reminder, the outstanding penalty was registered as a debt with Northampton County Court and on ..... July 2012 an Order for Recovery was printed and posted.

 

No letters regarding this matter were returned by the Post Office, or any other party, marked 'undelivered'

 

On ... September 2012 a Warrant of Execution was granted and referred to the Council's Bailiff for recovery.

 

On .... May 2013 the Council received an enquiry to which a response was issued on the .... May 2013.

 

The Council considers that the Penalty Charge Notice was issued and served correctly via the postal system and is satisfied that the Respondant was aware of the outstanding Penalty Charge Notice and that the required notices issued under the Traffic Management Act 2004 were served correctly.

 

Whilst the Borough acknowledges the fact that the Respondent has stated that he moved residency, as you are aware it is a legal requirement that motorists ensure all vehicle documents reflects current circumstances and therefore the Council cannot be held responsible for an oversight by the Respondent. In view of this the Council respectfully requests that the Respondants application to file a Statutory Decleration out of time be refused.

 

The above Statment of Truth is submitted is support of the Council's Objections to the acceptance of the Respondent's application to file an out of time Statutory Decleration.

 

........... ( signed )

June 2013

[lookinforinfo]

The fact of the matter is that the OP did not receive the follow up notices from the Council because he was not living at that address regardless of the reason. There is nothing in the legislation that states

that not informing the Council of a change of address is a reason to refuse the application.

 

In addition, despite having checked with the DLA in April, the Council do not appear to have checked back since then so it is a bit disingenuous to claim that the OP has not updated his address when

something like 6 months had elapsed since their DVLA check.

[tomtubby]

This is yet ANOTHER example of WHY the local authorities should not play any part at all in responding to Out of Time witness statements. I have a commercial business providing advice to members of the public regarding a bailiff visit and for at least 4 years I have been complaining to the Traffic Enforcement Centre about the responses from local authorities.

 

The LA are merely supposed to consider the REASON that you gave on the OTT. Unfortunately however most people do NOT complete the OTT correctly.

 

In your case, you will need to wait to receive the official response from TEC and then you can file an N244 to "seek a review".

 

This morning can you call TEC and ask them whether the LA have applied to amend the address on the warrant and if so....when .

[lamma]

Wise words.

[Hackers]

Have managed to get through to the TEC this morning, after an hour!

 

I have been informed that following a review of my case by a court officer, my application for an out of time has been refused. The letter from the TEC is in the post.

 

I was advised that my next steps are to complete the N244 form along with the appropriate fee

 

I was also told as there is no longer an active form within the system, the bailiffs can levy on my car

 

I asked about the details of the Warrant and it was given on the 4th September 2012, and according to the lady this was at my current address. I was surprised by this and told her that I had received no correspondance from Wandsworth Council until I notified them of my new address following receipt of the Bailiffs letter in May 13.

 

I suspect that the lady at the TEC, may be mistaken but when pressed stuck to her guns. I will call Wandsworth Council and try to find out more details.

[tomtubby]

I am pushed for time at the moment so cant read all of the thread.

 

What date did you move from the previous address?

 

When did you advise DVLA?

 

What is the position with your car ( HP/Finance etc)

 

How much roughly is the car worth?

[Hackers]

Ok, I have spoken to a very helpful lady at Wandsworth Council ( get the feeling if it was her decision I would not be in this mess. )

 

She has informed me that the warrant was issued on the 5th September and that following the bailiffs tracing of my new address the warrant has been resealed for my new address.

 

She did assure me that, they have not received the refusal letter from the TEC as of yet and that I have 14 days from that letter to file the N244 and that no action by the bailiffs can be currently taken until the 14 days is up.

[Hackers]

I moved Dec 2011 ( had Royal Mail, divert my post to new address for 3 months )

 

I have only advised DVLA recently ( not good )

 

Car is owned outright

 

 

Car is worth roughly £7000

Edited June 12, 2013 by Hackers

[tomtubby]

Thank you for the information. Wandsworth are NOT allowed to apply to amend the warrant and I an LIVID that local authorities are continuing to UNLAWFULLY amend warrant. In your case they CANNOT do so.

 

Have you informed Wandsworth of the date that you moved?

 

You need to file an N244 and you can either pay £45 to have the case dealt with at TEC without a hearing or alternatively, you can pay £80 and have the matter transferred to your local county court.

 

You need to ensure that you complete the N244 PROPERLY and I would suggest that you do not delay making the application.

 

Many people believe that there is little point in paying the fee of £45 as such applications commonly get rejected. However, I have a commercial business providing bailiff assistance to members of the public and only today we heard that two N244's submitted using the cheaper option has been ACCEPTED !!!