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A crazy day at the train station today.

 

I went to buy a ticket.

 

They could see I was in a rush as I was constantly looking back at the boards as my train was about to leave the station.

 

One of the ticket sellers asked to see my Young Person's Card.

 

He made me pass it underneath the barrier so he could have a closer look at it.

 

He claimed he was unable to read it clearly.

 

However, when he asked a younger colleague, with better eyesight, the younger colleague confirmed that the card expired in September 2013.

 

An elderly RPO then came along, took the ticket, came out of the office and took me to one side.

He tried to accuse me of trying to purchase a ticket with an invalid rail card.

I said that I hadn't as I still had four months left on my card, which he was holding in his hand.

 

To my surprise he then decided to burn my ticket.

I asked him why he was burning it and he claimed that he wasn't.

I told him that I was watching him do it right in front of my eyes.

 

He then said 'Well, if you're going to be like that' and attempted to rip the ticket up.

I managed to grab it off of him before he was able to do so.

 

However, my rail wallet was still on the other side of the barrier in their possession.

 

They have stolen my photocard and around a year's worth of rail tickets, a number of which I was owed expenses for (over £200 in total).

 

My understanding is that they're allowed to take tickets from us just because they feel like it

as even though we've paid for them, they still own them.

 

Am I able to report them for theft or anything at all?

 

The RPO was way out of line here.

 

I assume I was victimised due to being in a rush and thus more likely to kick up a fuss when they tried it on,

purely so that the RPO could claim a bonus for a completely unjustified penalty fare.

 

I was banned from the train station for the day and now I have had to get a lift to another train station just so I can reach my destination,

where I will now have to run to get to the football match before kick off.

Edited by dx100uk
put it back - dx

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Hello there.

 

Serious accusations here. Do you think the incident would be on CCTV?

 

My best, HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Deliberately burning something in a station would probably get the idiot sacked. Not just intimidatory behaviour towards customers, but probably in direct contravention of safety rules. What on earth possessed him? Do you have any names or badge numbers?

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but keep them to yourself please.

 

dx


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

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The incident should be on CCTV. There were also a fewwitnesses who I personally know at theback of the queue who saw the whole incident.

Good to know that him attempting to burn something couldget him sacked. I don't know his namebut I could easily identify him. I had a run in with him a few years back. He reported me but SWT didn't evenbother contacting me about the incidentas I clearly wasn't attempting to dodge a fare.

How would I go about reporting this? Would I go to thepolice or would I have to settle for a complaint via SWT's complaintsprocedure?

I'm assuming I won't be able to get my tickets orphotocard back and am unable to report this as theft due to SWT owning them?

Edited by RealName

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Its quite a serious accusation, I would be inclined to write direct to SWT's MD (the name and address should be on their website, or at least National Rail) rather than their customer services who may just fob you off with a standard reply and not actually resolve the issue.

 

Also, if you wish to report the matter to the police, then British Transport Police would be the people to talk to.


Still on the lookout for buried treasure!

 

Any advice I give here is based on my own experiences throughout my life, career and training and should not be taken as accurate. If in doubt, speak to someone more qualified - a Solicitor, Citizens Advice to name but two possible avenues!

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I'm on my way home now, so I'll make the report when Iget back to the station where theincident happened (I wonder if I'm supposed to still be banned from there).

Just a thought. I purchased all of the tickets which Ineed to claim expenses back from FGW. DoSWT have the rights to take them even though they were purchased from another company? I'm probably correct in thinking that this isn't the case as ticketsare property of National Rail andtherefore all the different rail companies under them.

As intimidatory behaviour was mentioned I wonder if itwould also be worth raising the factthat after he threatened to call the police he told me that he'd report me for assault. When I asked him who I was supposed to have assaulted he claimed I'd assaultedhim. At this point a number of people inthe queue shook their heads in disbelief.

Edited by RealName

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A crazy day at the train station today.

 

I went to buy a ticket.

 

They could see I was in a rush as I was constantly looking back at the boards as my train was about to leave the station.

 

One of the ticket sellers asked to see my Young Person's Card.

 

He made me pass it underneath the barrier so he could have a closer look at it.

 

He claimed he was unable to read it clearly.

 

However, when he asked a younger colleague, with better eyesight, the younger colleague confirmed that the card expired in September 2013.

 

An elderly RPO then came along, took the ticket, came out of the office and took me to one side.

He tried to accuse me of trying to purchase a ticket with an invalid rail card.

I said that I hadn't as I still had four months left on my card, which he was holding in his hand.

 

To my surprise he then decided to burn my ticket.

I asked him why he was burning it and he claimed that he wasn't.

I told him that I was watching him do it right in front of my eyes.

 

He then said 'Well, if you're going to be like that' and attempted to rip the ticket up.

I managed to grab it off of him before he was able to do so.

 

However, my rail wallet was still on the other side of the barrier in their possession.

 

They have stolen my photocard and around a year's worth of rail tickets, a number of which I was owed expenses for (over £200 in total).

 

My understanding is that they're allowed to take tickets from us just because they feel like it

as even though we've paid for them, they still own them.

 

Am I able to report them for theft or anything at all?

 

The RPO was way out of line here.

 

I assume I was victimised due to being in a rush and thus more likely to kick up a fuss when they tried it on,

purely so that the RPO could claim a bonus for a completely unjustified penalty fare.

 

I was banned from the train station for the day and now I have had to get a lift to another train station just so I can reach my destination,

where I will now have to run to get to the football match before kick off.

 

The incident should be on CCTV. There were also a few witnesses who I personally know at the back of the queue who saw the whole incident.

 

Good to know that him attempting to burn something could get him sacked. I don't know his name but I could easily identify him. I had a run in with him a few years back. He reported me but SWT didn't even bother contacting me about the incident as I clearly wasn't attempting to dodge a fare.

 

How would I go about reporting this? Would I go to the police or would I have to settle for a complaint via SWT's complaints procedure?

 

I'm assuming I won't be able to get my tickets or photocard back and am unable to report this as theft due to SWT owning them?

 

I'm on my way home now, so I'll make the report when I get back to the station where the incident happened (I wonder if I'm supposed to still be banned from there).

 

Just a thought. I purchased all of the tickets which I need to claim expenses back from FGW. Do SWT have the rights to take them even though they were purchased from another company? I'm probably correct in thinking that this isn't the case as tickets are property of National Rail and therefore all the different rail companies under them.

 

As intimidatory behaviour was mentioned I wonder if it would also be worth raising the fact that after he threatened to call the police he told me that he'd report me for assault. When I asked him who I was supposed to have assaulted he claimed I'd assaulted him. At this point a number of people in the queue shook their heads in disbelief.

 

 

What a Bizarre STORY !

Edited by 45002

Just say No to 0870 and 0845 Numbers,Use

http://www.saynoto0870.com/search.php

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What a Bizarre STORY !

 

Definitely. And if it had happened to me as exactly the OP describes, it would of been me calling for the police.


Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

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---Quote (Originally by sailor sam)---

Definitely. And if it had happened to me as exactly theOP describes, it would of been me calling for the police.

---End Quote---

I would have done. But I haven't missed a home game inthe league since 1999. There was no way I was ending that run because of theRPO.

I've just checked my YPC and that was purchased from aFGW station and not a SWT station. Does this mean SWT have no rights to havestolen my photocard? I think this might come under a different rule thantickets as I recall having some sort of problem with the card in the pastbetween the two companies.

Edited by RealName

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Definitely. And if it had happened to me as exactly the OP describes, it would of been me calling for the police.

 

I would have done. But I haven't missed a home game in the league since 1999. There was no way I was ending that run because of the RPO.

 

But

 

Football is more important to you then !

 

I've just checked my YPC and that was purchased from a FGW station and not a SWT station. Does this mean SWT have no rights to have stolen my photocard? I think this might come under a different rule than tickets as

 

T&C

 

http://www.16-25railcard.co.uk/using-your-card/faqs/186/

 

I recall having some sort of problem with the card in the past between the two companies.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?285498-%A3600-Fine-Threat

 

Or

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?254251-Train-Fine

Edited by 45002

Just say No to 0870 and 0845 Numbers,Use

http://www.saynoto0870.com/search.php

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Hmm. OP dosn't have much look with TOC staff it seems?


Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

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---Quote (Originally by 45002)---

Football is more important to you then !

---End Quote---

Because if you hadsomewhere you had to get to you would immediately drop it to report someone tothe police, even though you could do it later in the day. I'm not buying thatfor a second.

---Quote (Originally by 45002)---

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?285498-%A3600-Fine-Threat

Or

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?254251-Train-Fine

---End Quote---

Neither of those.It was something technical like having to renew my railcard at the same stationas I did before due to the photocard being purchased there. I don't reallyremember the details too well. It was a long time ago. You're obviously not worth replying to, sothis will be the last time I bother.

---Quote (Originally by sailor sam)---

Hmm. OP dosn't have much look with TOC staff it seems?

---End Quote---

One incident wasprobably a case of mistaken identity with a guard trying it on. The other SWTdidn't even bother pursuing as I clearly wasn't trying to evade the fare. Afterall, why would someone trying to fare dodge pay more money than they would havedone had they purchased the correct ticket? The only relevance those two incidents have is that one involves thesame RPO. Someone posted, I believe on here, a few years back that he issuedthem with a prosecution for ASKING if she could use her husband's train pass.She didn't actually use it. I believe this says more about the RPO than it doesmyself. If it's perfectly acceptable for him to try to set fire to my railcardjust because he tried to fine me before then the world's gone mad. Anyway, I just rang BTP. They claim that theRPO hasn't committed a crime, so they doubt they'll be able to do anything andI'll have to settle for making a complaint to SWT. I made a point out of thefact that he tried setting fire to an

object in apublic space and that somebody could have been injured if I hadn't stopped him.Apparently this isn't a criminal offence. I asked what would happen if I walkedin to a train station and set fire to my ticket. Apparently I would bearrested. I said that they should deal with the incident in the same waywhether a member of public or a member of staff tries setting fire to anobject. Again, they said I will have to settle for a complaint with SWT. Doesn'tseem fair to me.

Edited by RealName

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RealName, I do think that from your post, you have some clear misunderstandings of what was probably actually going on.

 

It might help you to know that the RPI / RPO was very unlikely to be attempting to 'set fire to your railcard'.

 

These cards are printed by a thermal process, if the print on the card fades over time an experienced inspector might well gently re-heat it using a cigarette lighter or lighted match, because this will cause the original expiry date to become clearly visible as a 'negative image'. This is almost certainly what you saw him doing.

 

It doesn't matter which rail company you bought the Railcard from, the terms & conditions are the same for all of them.

 

I am sorry to say that snatching the ticket away from the member of rail staff wasn't a bright idea either.

 

Staff have authority to retain any rail ticket for enquiry (you are right, they remain the property of the rail company at all times) and if it is necessary to do so, they will issue a replacement to allow the traveller to complete a journey without further hindrance.

 

The TOC cannot 'steal' something that is already theirs, and no, it does not matter which TOC issued it, the authority is jointly & severally the same for all rail operating companies..

 

Did the RPI / RPO keep your Railcard and did he take any details from you?

Edited by Old-CodJA

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It is a common technique to hold a lighter to a railcard in order to reveal (by inverting) the thermal printing.

 

Not especially encouraged, but is generally an acceptable method - especially, as if the railcard cannot be read clearly before hand, it should be replaced, (free of charge), anyway.

 

This is what happens:

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTSgdjlb-DdiPjC-0o0w27bk-_mJXzNDO8HjuZN6GlevroCWQALEA

 

So despite the RPO telling you he WASN'T burning your railcard, you chose to (atttempt to) snatch it from him. As it belongs to the railway companies, and NOT you, he is free to withdraw any tickets, railcards etc from you.

 

So no you can't report for theft, because it was YOU that tried to take HIS property back, (not the other way around).

 

It appears as though you completely overreacted to him trying to HELP you by getting the railcard date to become clearer. You thought, for some strange reason, he would decide to set the railcard alight? Why would he do that? Even so, why do you think it is acceptable to snatch something out of another persons hands? Could potentially be an assault if the RPO feels threatened.

 

I suspect you were ordered to leave the station because you breached Railway Byelaw 6(2), which allows them to force you to leave, (Byelaw 24(2)).

 

I suggest you arrive in more time for your train in the future and actually listen to what the staff are telling you, rather than jumping to ludicrous and incorrect opinions and accusations.

 

(Also, your nonsense about a Penalty Fare - no "bonuses" are paid. Plus, you would not have even been issued a Penalty Fare unless you had come FROM somewhere. It sounds as though they were trying to PREVENT you getting a Penalty Fare, in case your railcard was out of date).

 

What makes it worse is that you even describe the RPO as "elderly". So snatching things from an allegedly bonus seeking elderly man, while no doubt you are having a go at him for you being in a rush and needed to go, is acceptable to you, is it?

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Thanks Old-CodJA. Nice to see we're back to some common sense and helpfulness around here.

 

 

If this was the RPO's intent then he certainly didn't make it clear. He could have clarified what he was doing but instead he chose to ignore my request for him to not burn my ticket and in fact denied that he was even doing it. I think we'll both agree that he should have explained this to me rather than deciding to rip my railcard up. I have spoken to some of the people in queue who witnessed the incident and it came across to them that he was attempting to set fire to my ticket as well. So while it may be a misunderstanding, it appears to be a wide-spread one.

 

I can see the logic behind that, but I'm sure you can see things from my perspective as well. The ROP was out of line and should not have ripped up my railcard or taken my photocard from me.

Edited by RealName

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Thanks Old-CodJA. Nice to see we're back to some common sense and helpfulness around here.

 

 

If this was the RPO's intent then he certainly didn't make it clear. He could have clarified what he was doing but instead he chose to ignore my request for him to not burn my ticket and in fact denied that he was even doing it. I think we'll both agree that he should have explained this to me rather than deciding to rip my railcard up. I have spoken to some of the people in queue who witnessed the incident and it came across to them that he was attempting to set fire to my ticket as well. So while it may be a misunderstanding, it appears to be a wide-spread one.

 

I can see the logic behind that, but I'm sure you can see things from my perspective as well. The ROP was out of line and should not have ripped up my railcard or taken my photocard from me.

 

 

If you have clear evidence to support an allegation, then take it up with the TOC, however it seems that you have already been to the Police and they do not accept that you have evidence to support any allegation of an offence. Of course, that doesn't mean you cannot try again, but you will need tangible evidence to support your accusation.

 

 

He had even less of a reason to take old train tickets from me, which I informed them I needed to retain to claim back expenses.

 

 

Rail staff have the authority to collect / retain all expired rail tickets. In fact, if taken to the extreme, the National Rail Conditions of Carriage always said that they should be 'given up on expiry', however I think we all understand that isn't always practical. The fact remains though that if a traveller needs to claim expenses all they have to do is ask for a receipt when they buy their ticket.

 

I'm now £300 down for attempting to buy a ticket at the first opportunity. I'm not condoning this, but the fact is I could have boarded the train, approached the guard and purchased a ticket on there. I would have been significantly better off if I had done this as at worst I would have had to pay a £50 penalty fare. By acting in this manner the RPO is making fare-dodging seem worthwhile.

 

We do not know where you were travelling from and to because you haven't told us, but if you tell us which station you started your journey at we can give you a definitive answer.

 

If there was a booking office or self-service machine at the station where you started your journey, you have a strict liability responsibility to use it.

 

A Penalty Fare is not the worst that could happen if you do not buy a ticket in those circumstances. In such circumstances if you do not buy your ticket before boarding the train you can be prosecuted for breach of Byelaw and this can lead to a substantial fine in a Magistrates Court.

 

 

Sadly this is not what happened.

 

You will not be issued a replacement if it is not justified and from your post, we cannot be sure that it was.

 

 

I have the railcard but the RPO has the photocard, which I understand it is useless without.

 

You are correct, The Railcard part cannot be used without showing the valid photocard bearing the same number as that on the Railcard.

 

The only time any details were requested from me was by the man who I attempted to buy the ticket from. He was filling out a form that I could not see and he asked for my name and address. I asked him what he needed this for and I never got an answer as the RPO stepped in immediately and took a lighter to my ticket.

 

It seems that inspectors were making spot checks and from your post, you were in too much of a hurry to hang around, wanting to get to a football match.

 

 

Nice how it's perfectly acceptable for them to snatch things out of our hands though.

 

From what I have seen so far, no-one has said that anyone snatched anything from you, but of course virtually all barrier lines are covered by CCTV so it is likely that if this only happened today as you said, a factual record of what happened can be retrieved by the rail company or British Transport Police.

 

 

I arrived on time. Normally I am able to get a ticket beforehand but as a machine was broken I was unable to, which meant I had to join a lengthy queue. The staff didn't explain anything to me, so there was nothing for me to listen to. The people in the queue reached the same conclusion as I did, so it is not so ludicrous.

 

 

I also mentioned another man as 'younger' this was related to eyesight rather than any personal issue I had with his age. I am able to read the ticket perfectly clearly, much like the youngest of the three members of staff involved today and the guards on board the train who are younger than the two who were unable to read the ticket. I did not have a go at him at all for 'being in a rush'. In fact I didn't even mention it to him.

 

 

It seems to me that age has nothing to do with this, if the RPI / RPO could not clearly make out the date, it his responsibility to check it

 

My gut feeling, based on a working lifetime in this field, is that unless there something missing in the process, if your correct name and address were taken, your photocard was retained and you snatched the ticket / railcard back and ran off to catch a train, a report will be submitted and you will get a letter from the TOC in due course. That could take up to six weeks or so to arrive.

Edited by Old-CodJA
  • Haha 1

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yes, holding a lighter under a faded railcard is a common method of showing up the date and it seems universal amongst TOC's.


Views expressed in this forum by me are my own personal opinion and you take it on face value! I make any comments to the best of my knowledge but you take my advice at your own risk.

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---Quote (Originally by Old-CodJA)---

If you have clear _evidence_ to support an allegation,then take it up with the TOC, however it seems that you have already been tothe Police and they do not accept that you have evidence to support anyallegation of an offence.

---End Quote---

I've been to BTP. Not the police. A brief chat with thepolice saw them see this as a crime, but they told me I would have to take itup with BTP. BTP claim that it's acceptable for a member of staff to set fireto an object, but a crime for a customer to do so. This isn't the first timeBTP have had one rule for them and another for everyone else, so I will betaking this further this time.

---Quote---

Rail staff have the authority to collect / retain allexpired rail tickets. In fact, if takento the extreme, the National Rail Conditions of Carriage always said that theyshould be 'given up on expiry', however I think we all understand that isn'talways practical. The fact remainsthough that if a traveller needs to claim expenses all they have to do is askfor a receipt when they buy their ticket.

---End Quote---

Are you able to get receipts from the machines theconductor's have on board the trains or is this limited to the station officeand self-service machines?

---Quote---

We do not know where you were travelling from and tobecause you haven't told us, but if you tell us which station you started yourjourney at we can give you a definitive answer.

If there was a booking office or self-service machine atthe station where you started your journey, you have a strict liabilityresponsibility to use it.

---End Quote---

My station is a penalty fare station, however the ticketoffice was closed and the machines only accept cards. The first point at whichI could have bought a ticket was on board the train. I always ask forpermission to board the train before boarding and ask if I can buy a ticketfrom them. Today I was told I could board the train but would have to buy theticket from the next stop, which I attempted to do. Once before I had twotrains cancelled and my next one was late, so I asked the guard on board thenext train if I could get on and buy a ticket from her instead of at the station.I only wish I had asked today as the answer would probably have been 'yes'. Ishould point out at this point, as others are bound to jump to the incorrectconclusion, that nobody involved with the incident today, other than myself,were aware that I had travelled on a train without a ticket, so this has nobearing on what took place.

---Quote---

No-one has said that anyone snatched anything ffrom you---End Quote--- Not today, but the same RPO snatched something off of me in thepast. When I snatched it back he cried assault. It should work both ways.

---Quote---

It seems to me that age has nothing to do with this, ifthe RPI / RPO could not clearly make out the date, it his responsibility tocheck it ---End Quote--- I can certainly understand how what I said could bemisconstrued. Of course I'm not saying that old people are practically blind.It's just that our eyesight tends to get weaker as we get older. Mine certainlyisn't as good as it was five years ago and I'm only in my 20s. There should besome logic applied to the reading of the tickets. I was able to read the dateclearly from a metre away through the plastic window. So the date obviouslywasn't that unreadable. If a member of staff can confirm the date on theticket, it should be fine. I feel at this point they should have either allowedme to purchase a ticket with my railcard, offered me a replacement or told me Icould no longer use the railcard. I should not have been accused of using aninvalid railcard to purchase a ticket.

---Quote---

My gut feeling, based on a working lifetinme in thisfield, is that unless there something missing in the process, if your name andaddress were taken, your photocard was retained and you snatched the ticket /railcard back and ran off to catch a train, a report will be submitted anjd youwill get a letter from the TOC in due course. That could take up to six weekso0r so to arrive.

---End Quote---

I didn't give my name or address when they asked. I askedthem what they needed them for and the question was never answered. I spoke toBTP about this and they confirmed that as SWT did not tell me why they weretaking them I was under no obligation to provide that information. I alsodidn't catch a train. At least not from that station. I went to the next stopmy train would have stopped at and continued my journey from there, buying aticket from the station I initially travelled from.

I don't know if they're able to find out my name andaddress from my photocard, but if they are I don't see what I could be finedfor.

---Quote (Originally by RPI)---

yes, holding a lighter under a faded railcard is a commonmethod of showing up the date and it seems universal amongst TOC's.

---End Quote---

I understand that now, but I'm sure you'll agree that theRPO should have explained this instead of ripping up the railcard when I askedhim why he was doing it. In fact, I wondered if this could have been the reasonwhen I saw the transformation take place. It was when he took the lighter to itagain, after the date was already clear, for a longer period of time that Iassumed this was no longer the case. I don't know how flammable railcards arebut had I not stopped him I feel it may have set alight. To be honest he shouldprobably have picked a more suitable place to do it in rather than the busystation foyer as well.

Edited by RealName

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BTP are the police, with a wider understanding of their powers than other forces. The only crime(s) appear to have been committed by you.

 

You committed theft, (you grabbed, and took, something that did not belong to you, with the intent to keep it), and breach of Byelaw 6.

 

You obviously aren't understanding that you have completely overreacted to a situation and your (own) behaviour has led to this tale.

 

With experience of knowing how these situations go, if I asked the staff, I'm sure your comments/actions etc would be construed as abusive, obstructive and unacceptable.

 

Take this further by all accounts, but bear in mind it is quite likely to backfire, quite spectacularly.

Edited by firstclassx

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BTP are the police, with a wider understanding of their powers than other forces.

They are heavily biased. The fact that they stated that it is perfectly acceptable for a member of National Rail staff to set fire to an object, but if anyone else does so they will be arrested is proof of this. They will be dealt with appropriately

 

You committed theft, (you grabbed, and took, something that did not belong to you, with the intent to keep it), and breach of Byelaw 6.

Anyone with even an ounce of common sense knows that the RPO is the one in the wrong.

 

You obviously aren't understanding that you have completely overreacted to a situation and your (own) behaviour has led to this tale.

I agree. My mistake was attempting to purchase a ticket from SWT. I will only use FGW from now on.

 

if I asked the staff, I'm sure your comments/actions etc would be construed as abusive, obstructive and unacceptable.

Damn customers trying to purchase train tickets! What are the crazy fools thinking getting in the way?

Edited by ims21
.

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You really DO have some misunderstandings I'm afraid

 

I've been to BTP. Not the police. A brief chat with the police saw them see this as a crime, but they told me I would have to take it up with BTP. BTP claim that it's acceptable for a member of staff to set fire to an object, but a crime for a customer to do so. This isn't the first time BTP have had one rule for them and another for everyone else, so I will be taking this further this time.

 

The BTP ARE the Police. They are a fully functional Police Force

 

 

Are you able to get receipts from the machines the conductor's have on board the trains or is this limited to the station office and self-service machines?

 

Yes

 

My station is a penalty fare station, however the ticket office was closed and the machines only accept cards. The first point at which I could have bought a ticket was on board the train. I always ask for permission to board the train before boarding and ask if I can buy a ticket from them. Today I was told I could board the train but would have to buy the ticket from the next stop, which I attempted to do. Once before I had two trains cancelled and my next one was late, so I asked the guard on board the next train if I could get on and buy a ticket from her instead of at the station. I only wish I had asked today as the answer would probably have been 'yes'. I should point out at this point, as others are bound to jump to the incorrect conclusion, that nobody involved with the incident today, other than myself, were aware that I had travelled on a train without a ticket, so this has no bearing on what took place.

 

You need to state which station before we can give definitive help.

 

 

Not today, but the same RPO snatched something off of me in the past. When I snatched it back he cried assault. It should work both ways.

 

Anything that happened on a different day cannot have any bearing on the allegation relating to today. An allegation of an offence today will only be considered on the evidence available

 

I can certainly understand how what I said could be misconstrued. Of course I'm not saying that old people are practically blind. It's just that our eyesight tends to get weaker as we get older. Mine certainly isn't as good as it was five years ago and I'm only in my 20s. There should be some logic applied to the reading of the tickets. I was able to read the date clearly from a metre away through the plastic window, so the date obviously wasn't that unreadable. If a member of staff can confirm the date on the ticket, it should be fine.

 

I think you miss the very important point that if in the opinion of the TOC, the member of staff is capable of doing his job, you are not qualified to pass medical opinion unless you are a qualified optician and have examined that individual.

 

I feel at this point they should have either allowed me to purchase a ticket with my railcard, offered me a replacement or told me I could no longer use the railcard. I should not have been accused of using an invalid railcard to purchase a ticket.

 

The conditions applicable to the Railcard and rail tickets are accepted by the purchaser at the time of purchase. This actually includes a note about care of tickets and whilst I agree, the print quality is a concern for the TOCs, if it was still valid, with some months to run, once you noted that it was becoming difficult to read you could have taken it to a booking office and insisted that they provide a duplicate, because you were having difficulties with revenue staff who were constantly querying its' validity.

 

 

I didn't give my name or address when they asked. I asked them what they needed them for and the question was never answered. I spoke to BTP about this and they confirmed that as SWT did not tell me why they were taking them I was under no obligation to provide that information. I also didn't catch a train. At least not from that station. I went to the next stop my train would have stopped at and continued my journey from there, buying a ticket from the station I initially travelled from.

 

 

If this is in fact what BTP told you, they are wrong.

 

The staff concerned should explain why, but it seems that this inspector had already said he couldn't be certain the Railcard was in date.

 

I understand that some people may not like the idea, but if rail staff do not accept that a ticket or Railcard is valid, and do request the travellers' name and address, there is a legal obligation to give it.

 

Both Section 5 of the Regulation of Railways Act (1889) and National Railway Byelaw 23 (1) (2005) make this very clear.

Edited by Old-CodJA

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They are heavily biased. The fact that they stated that it is perfectly acceptable for a member of National Rail staff to set fire to an object, but if anyone else does so they will be arrested is proof of this. They will be dealt with appropriately

 

 

Anyone with even an ounce of common sense knows that the RPO is the one in the wrong.

 

 

I agree. My mistake was attempting to purchase a ticket from SWT. I will only use FGW from now on.

 

 

Damn customers trying to purchase train tickets! What are the crazy fools thinking getting in the way?

 

 

You have come on here asking for assistance and suggestions that may help you. Several people with very long experience in handling prosecutions for rail companies have given you clear guidance in actually trying to help, but it appears that you do not like the advice you are given unless it exactly matches what you want to hear. I'm sorry that is the case.

 

The best suggestion that I can make is, do what you feel you have to, but if you don't get the result you expect, it seems to me that will be no-one's fault but your own

 

I am also sorry if that seems judgmental, but I have no intention of giving false hope, particularly in a case where we do not know where the incident occurred (it is relevant) and where we only have a one sided appraisal of the situation. we can only give suggestions basesd on the OPs actual explanation and I cannot see evidence that there is a case that you can win.

 

Good luck

Edited by Old-CodJA

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OP is removing All there posts now,that tells you something !

 

 

 

Ahh well, no one can be faulted for trying to help him as far as I can see.

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