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    • I don't think that you have told us when you bought the car. However, you have referred to a conversation in which they apparently told you that the MOT had been carried out on 11 November so that suggests to me that you bought it after that date. Although it seems as if you are dealing with quite a dodgy crowd, you may as well go through the paces of asserting your proper rights. Because you have discovered this issue within the first 30 days – you can add to the strength of your position by sending them a letter asserting a right to reject the vehicle under the consumer rights act. If a car manifests a defect within the first 30 days then you are entitled to reject it out of hand with no chance of repair but you must assert your right in writing. Send them a letter immediately – recorded delivery – informing them that you are rejecting the vehicle and telling them on what grounds and say that you are asserting your rights under the consumer rights act. It won't make a whole lot of difference, but later on if you find yourself having to take court action, then it will all help. Please let us know when you have had the AA check. Meanwhile, I suggest that you contact me at our admin email address and let me know the identity of the garage and any other identity clues that you have unearthed. It may enable us to give you additional help
    • Assuming you're correct about the limitation running from the last date of deferral. The last deferral was in 2013 so the statute barring period would end on 31 August 2019, the money claim was made on 3rd June 2019 so is within the limitation period. Therefore the debt is not statute barred.
    • I agree with my site team colleague @slick132 but with variations. These people have been needing you around and cause you serious harm in terms of the amount of effort that you have been put to as well as the damage to your credit file. You have taken all sorts of different stories and also been misled by them as to their statutory obligations in respect of data disclosures. It has taken the issue of court claim to get them to make any move. You have taken control of the situation and it is you who has the whip hand at the moment. They are now proposing to telephone you to discuss the matter in some way – but you have no idea. Also, you have no idea who you are going to be speaking to and whether they have authority to commit Virgin to anything at all. If you agree to this phone call then you are at risk of handing control back to them because they will partly ask you to withdraw the action and they will also offer to make a payment as a "gesture of goodwill". Now that you have attracted their attention and they realise that something needs to be taken seriously, I don't think you should let go of the initiative. Please can you post up the email which you received from them. He was it from and what is that person's role within the company. I think you should write to them and refuse the call and tell them that you are happy to discuss matters that you will want to know what it is they think they have to discuss and who will it be who will be phoning you – and will that person has any authority to make decisions. I think should also emphasise to virgin that they are already in breach of their statutory duty. That if they decide to file a defence that they will have to sign it is a statement of truth subject to a sanction for contempt of court and that as they are clearly in breach of their statutory obligations, it would not be possible for them to sign off such a statement of truth and if they do, then you will bring the whole thing to the attention of the court and invite the court to express their own opinion on the matter. I think it's very important that they tell you in advance what they propose to discuss. I think you should tell them that if they're not prepared to disclose the purpose of their phone call and the points that they intend to cover and if the phone call is not made by somebody at a suitably elevated managerial level, then you are not prepared to discuss the matter. I'm afraid that I'm struck by the naïveté of your statement which I suppose is intended to be assertive.   Haven't we reached a point yet where you understand that you can't trust these people and although you may discuss various things on the telephone, if they then are required to minute the conversation and provide you with the resume of the conversation, you are handing them carte blanche to present the conversation in a way that suits them together with nuances included or removed, and generally slanted in their favour. They might not – but you are certainly opening up the possibilities and if that's what they do, how are you going to counter them and say that they have not correctly recorded what you discussed and agreed? You seem to be doing everything you can to keep on handing the baton back to Virgin. I have no idea why. You should not get involved in any telephone conversation unless you have first read our customer services guide and you are recording the call for your own benefit. If you cannot do this or you are not prepared to do this then don't take the call at all. Please will you post up the email that you have received, let me have your comments on what I've posted here and if you agree we will draft a response. You might like to start. Apparently they are proposing to telephone today and so we need to get a move on. If they happen to telephone before you have received a written reply to your message, then you should simply tell the caller that you are still waiting for their response to the email which you sent a little while earlier and you're not prepared to discuss anything until you have their written reply to that.
    • Well done on getting your refund and thanks for the update. I understand that you are still out of pocket. If you would like to get that money back and we will help you and I think it will be fairly straightforward. The amount of money outstanding is scarcely worth his while causing any trouble. It would be very helpful if you could post up a link to the new advertisement and also do you have any pics of the car and also its registration number please. I think we owe this to possible new owners in case they come to this forum.
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My car was clamped by a bailiff today.I bought it 4 days ago, so logbook has been sent to DVLA, but not processed.

Bailiff said car was in a company name before I bought it, and I'd have to prove I was the new owner (can't do cos don't have log book) or pay the debt.

 

He started saying total debts were £3000, but wouldn't tell me which authorities it was owed to.

he then said he'd "do me a favour" and let me off paying only one debt,of £577.

 

I paid it by credit card , cos he said otherwise he'd take the car away.

He never got my signature, but left me a receipt,made out to the old owner's name and address.

 

What are my rights here? Should I have fallen for his psychological tricks?

He said if I proved i was the new owner i could write in and get my money back, but I doubt he was telling the truth.

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Did you not have a receipt showing that you bought the car ?

 

The bailiff has conned you and you will have to see if your bank will reject the debit on the basis that it was made under duress, with the person making false claims. You should not have paid it and called the Police. You have just paid someone elses parking infringements .

We could do with some help from you.

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I understand from other similar cases a bailiff can tow a car away , even if you can prove you're the new owner and it's not your debt?

Apparently they can "list" a vehicle so it's not legal for the owner with the debt to sell the car. But how would the buyer know it was listed?

The seller's not going to tell them at the time of purchase.

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Any levy applied to the vehicle would be owed by the person who owned the car at the time of the parking infringements. If they sold a vehicle while a bailiff held a levy on it, then it would be up to the baliff to take it up with the relevant person.

 

You should ask your credit card company to refuse the transaction, as it was made under duress by someone making false claims. The bailiff should have allowed you time to confirm that you had bought the car recently and these PCN's were nothing to do with you. The bailiff cannot ask a third party to pay and not provide any documentation to show relevant legal authority to show they can seize the car.

 

Once you know what your credit card company will be doing with the transaction, then send a copy of the purchase receipt to the bailiffs.

We could do with some help from you.

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What bailiff company was this? was it JBW perchance? Whatever do as UB suggests and get the credit card company to squish the transaction.

We could do with some help from you.

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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How did he find you if the change of ownership had not been processed by DVLA?

 

Think they have access to the registration plate identification cameras. They have obviously been alerted to the car in that area and have found it. This has been posted before in similar circumstances, so I presume it is correct.

We could do with some help from you.

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It is such a shame that you have provided so little information because it is so difficult to provide adequate advice.

 

I would assume that the bailiff located your vehicle by ANPR.

 

Which bailiff company?

 

Did the bailiff show you a copy of the warrant?

 

If the bailiff seized the car then he must BY LAW provide a copy of a Notice of Seizure of Goods & Inventory...was this provided to you?

 

You haven't made it clear how much you actually paid the bailiff...can you clarfiy?

 

How was payment made?

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you paid by credit card

 

you can do an immediate chargeback nOW

 

paid under duress.

 

http://whatconsumer.co.uk/visa-debit-chargeback/

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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thanks to all.

yes, he got me with the van with his cameras on top.

He left me a receipt.I paid £567 by visa card.He never got my signature.He just phoned my visa number thro' to his office. he said I'd be able to get a refund if I could prove I was the new owner. Yes, and pigs might fly.

He also left a notice of seizure.

 

It certainly was paid under duress, as he told me a van was coming in the next 30 mins to take the car away. He said he didn't know where it was going to be taken, and once it was gone I wouldn't be able to get my personal stuff from the car (surely not true!).

I'm not stupid, and I know they play tricks, but understandably I really did panic.

 

He never told me, and the receipt he left doesn't say, exactly which council PCN I've actually paid.

I'm not convinced an attempted chargeback would work (I'm a natural pessimist).

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do it now

 

it will work

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Do it now and hide the car whilst you get the receipt and maybe swear a Statutory Declaration, bill the bailiffs for your costs of obtaining this when you send them proof of ownership.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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Please do not take this particular post in the wrong way but it is important to know what information the bailiff company will be requiring from you.

 

i receive so many inquiries similar to yours. Sadly, with a lot of them it later transpires that the "sale" was not altogether "above board" and this very common indeed where there are "multiple" parking tickets.

 

Only on Monday I received an enquiry and the new owner was having difficulty providing a copy of the new insurance certificate because "apparently" as the insurance was due to expire in 4 months time the "previous owner" had decided to "add the new owner" to the insurance as an "additional driver". He could not provide any evidence to the bailiff company as to how he had paid for the vehicle and "claimed" that the purchase price of £9,500 had been by cash and that he keeps such amounts of money in cash at home.

 

Last week in another case where the car had been removed to the pound the "new owner" was only able to provide a hand written receipt, claimed that she had "paid" £6,500 in cash and that with regards to the insurance, she tried to convince the bailiff company that as the insurance is so high and she uses the car only rarely that she only insures the car on a "pay as you go" basis ( whereby she insures the car for a few days only).

 

What is always of concern is the amount of cases where the new owner is unable to provide any details (email or phone number) of the previous owner.

 

Bailiffs companies see these cases all day long and for this reason they will almost certainly require the following information from you:

 

A copy of receipt.

 

A copy of the insurance certificate from the date of purchase.

 

Some sort of evidence as to where the car had been advertised (Exchange & Mart, Gumtree, Auto Trader etc)

 

If payment was made in cash...copy of a bank statement showing large withdrawals

 

What information would you be able to provide?

 

Also, which bailiff company seized the car?

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An insurance cover note issued on the day of purchase in the name of the new owner is a must, whatever else is provided

We could do with some help from you.

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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An insurance certificate would normally take a week or so to arrive but a cover note is vital.

Exactly, it would be required if pulled by police until the details were on the MIB insurance database police ANPR hooks into, so should convince a bailiff, is the bailiff JBW?

We could do with some help from you.

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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Yes I can see that people might transfer their vehicles to avoid PCN's and that they would need to show that the new owner had genuinely bought the vehicle.

 

But would there not be an issued with the actions of the bailiff anyway. If the warrant given by TEC was for a vehicle owned by X at X address, would they not have to go back to TEC to get the address of the warrant change, if it was kept at a different address. I thought I had read this somewhere and don't know whether this is the case or not. Sounds a little odd, given that vehicles are mobile and therefore an address on a warrant would not just restrict to action at one address. I presume there is law to seize a vehicle, wherever it is, to obtain the PCN's.

 

Also the bailiff apparently refused to provide any information, only the amount of money they needed to unclamp the car and stop it being taken away. Does not sound like a proper process to me. What does the law allow the bailiff to do in circumstances, where the ownership of the vehicle appears to have changed ?

We could do with some help from you.

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Yes I can see that people might transfer their vehicles to avoid PCN's and that they would need to show that the new owner had genuinely bought the vehicle.

 

But would there not be an issued with the actions of the bailiff anyway. If the warrant given by TEC was for a vehicle owned by X at X address, would they not have to go back to TEC to get the address of the warrant change, if it was kept at a different address. I thought I had read this somewhere and don't know whether this is the case or not. Sounds a little odd, given that vehicles are mobile and therefore an address on a warrant would not just restrict to action at one address. I presume there is law to seize a vehicle, wherever it is, to obtain the PCN's.

 

Also the bailiff apparently refused to provide any information, only the amount of money they needed to unclamp the car and stop it being taken away. Does not sound like a proper process to me. What does the law allow the bailiff to do in circumstances, where the ownership of the vehicle appears to have changed ?

 

many councils and bailiffs ignore the law, and if ANPR goes kerching will sieze and tow, even with a V5 and all docs changed at DVLA, claiming the PCN stays with the car. anything to get money

We could do with some help from you.

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Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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Good point. I have written many letters on this very subject to the Ministry of Justice and even the Information Commissioners Office. It is a complete nonsense that if the person has moved there is requirement to apply to TEC for permission to reissue...and yet is allowed to drive around London seeking to find the VEHICLE that was subject to a contravention. The bailiff should be looking to find the VEHICLE OWNER !!

 

Also, you should be aware that warrant reissue requests should ONLY be made in very rare cases indeed. And yet...this does NOT appear to be the case !!!!

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As regards insurance, it may well be the case the new owner was also a driver of the vehicle (but not the registered owner) prior to buying it. For example, he may have been a salesman for the company, and bought the vehicle as part of a severance package.

 

In this case the insurance certificate will not start on the day he bought the car, as he was already previously insured.

I also don't see why you should have to provide evidence of purchase.Many private sales are done in cash for small amounts (a lot of cars sell for less than £1000) which the buyer could easily have had in his house, rather than having to withdraw it from a bank.And what constitutes a receipt?-it's likely to be a handwritten scrap of paper if it's a cheap car. Is this "proof" the transfer of ownership was to avoid PCN? I don't think so.

At the end of the day, the bailiff should earn his massive fees by finding the person or company who have incurred the debt.If they can't find them they don't get the debt.

 

Can a bailiff take property from your home if ,say, you are the sole resident, and the debt is in the name of someone else? I for one would like to think I'd not hand over a single item if the debt wasn't mine.

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"I also don't see why you should have to provide evidence of purchase" The question "whose property is it ?" There is no central register of owners, the DVLA does not keep that information (nor does it have any legal right to do so). Even when buying or selling for cash a Bill of Sale is easy to complete.

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I would agree that if a car was purchased for around £1,000 it is entirely possible to have some amount of cash in the home.

 

On the point about you already having insurance, I would assume that you would have called the insurance company to change the details of the vehicle. If so, this should be sufficient.

 

One concern that I do have is that as you have already paid nearly £600, the same bailiff company could very likely locate your car again and attempt to remove it.

 

It is for this reason that I would suggest that you get as much information together to prove your ownership ( and also so that you can apply for a refund).

 

Also, have you tried contacting the previous owner as they should be responsible for paying the debt to the bailiff.

Edited by tomtubby
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You have not mentioned which bailiff company this relates to.

 

Your particular query is sadly very common indeed and the ease in which the bailiff managed to "convince" you to pay is of concern as the same bailiff or bailiff company could just as easy locate your car a 2nd time.

 

If the previous owner is contactable, I would strongly suggest that you contact him. It may even be possible that he knows nothing about the PCN's and he is therefore permitted to file and Out of Time witness statement. All enforcement would then cease until the applications are dealt with.

 

PS: Have you called the bailiff company to ask about any other tickets etc? On the Notice of Seizure is there a PCN ref number? This should start with 2 digits followed by 8 numbers.

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