Reported for prosecution.**Resolved** we think.

[kannkos]

I'm sorry to say that it is not 'their responsibility to have a ticket machine in every station', I agree it is certainly desireable at these small stations, but they are not obliged to do so because they have offered an alternative 'paying system' as you put it.

 

The company allows you to board without a ticket in these circumstances and it is your responsibility to declare your journey and pay your fare.

 

You failed to do that. From your explanation you failed to approach someone at Penzance, knowing that you had not paid, and decided to walk out of the station without having done so.

 

I see very little difference between that action and the person who walks into a supermarket, picking up a bottle of whisky from the shelf and walking out without paying and neither do the Courts.

 

HB's advice is absolutely correct. You telling the rail company that you are right and they are wrong in this situation is very likely to see you receive a summons to Court.

 

 

Please read my first posts carefully because i wrote that i didnt have the chance to pay my ticket except from a ticket officer inside the train and the inspectors waiting for as exactly outside the train. At first i thought they have machines and i told them " A ticket from Hayle please?" but it seems there intense was to trap everyone there.

[honeybee13]

Thanks for the reply! France was just an example..i always pay my ticket when there is a payment source to buy a ticket and i never dont want to avoid payment but it looks that wasnt very well informed to the situation that there is not a machine or office...now i know and certainly i would try to find the officer inside the train..but i was wondering if i was a 85 years woman and couldnt walk so good so to go and find the ticket officer in the moving train (really its absolutely safe for a mature to walk when the train is moving?) what i should do? Its not my intense to go for a battle with the company of course, i ll apologize and pay my fine, but also the company need to find solutions to the problems and not prosecutions!

 

Hello again. We can't change the rules for you. Maybe you need to get together with people who think the same way you do and campaign to change the rules?

 

I think apologising is the way to go, as you say. If you appear to be sincere about regretting what you did and promise to pay in future, they may allow you to settle before it gets to court.

 

HB

[kannkos]

Thanks for your replies! I dont say anywhere to change any rules, i just say it doesnt feel right to me to not provide ticket payment method and expect for the people to trying find the ticket officer inside the train especially when you dont mention this information in your website, train station, inside the train or behind the tickets. Thanks all of your for your replies and suggestions!

[Old-CodJA]

Please read my first posts carefully because i wrote that i didnt have the chance to pay my ticket except from a ticket officer inside the train and the inspectors waiting for as exactly outside the train. At first i thought they have machines and i told them " A ticket from Hayle please?" but it seems there intense was to trap everyone there.

 

I have read your first post very carefully. I am sorry if this seems harsh, but you do have to accept responsibility for your own actions.

 

You did have chance to pay for your ticket. You had the chance to pay the conductor / guard on the train, but you didn't

 

You had a second chance to go to the ticket office when you arrived at Penzance but you didn't. You decided to walk out of the station and if the inspectors had not been there, you would not have paid.

 

Yes, the inspectors were placed at the exit from the station to identify those people who travel on the trains and leave the railway without paying.

 

I'm sorry to say that if you persist in trying to blame everyone else, you are not going to get the resolution that you are hoping for.

[kannkos]

I have read your first post very carefully. I am sorry if this seems harsh, but you do have to accept responsibility for your own actions.

 

You did have chance to pay for your ticket. You had the chance to pay the conductor / guard on the train, but you didn't

 

You had a second chance to go to the ticket office when you arrived at Penzance but you didn't.

 

Yes, the inspectors were placed at the exit from the station to identify those people who travel on the trains and leave the railway without paying.

 

I'm sorry to say that if you persist in trying to blame everyone else, you are not going to get the resolution that you are hoping for.

 

 

Sorry but i fill you didnt read the firsts page posts or my english are too bad (i am really sorry for that i am trying hard) because if you do you ll see that i had only one chance, the chance inside the train something i didnt know as i mention..theres no second chance because the inspectors where BEFORE the ticket machines and ticket office and of course i ask for ticket the inspectors but they took my address, my name and make me some questions instead. I am trying to say you in almost all the posts that if i knew the procedure in stations where are no machines or ticket offices of course and i would try to find the ticket officer (something i ll do in the future) but i didnt know it mainly because i stuck to the penalty fare rules in their website ( i thought this rules was according to the law) but now i realize that is not true and so on its my fault of course. I dont want to blame anyone else except me of course but i think there is also responsibility from the company. Before some days i went to the super market and the cashier girl didnt charge me for one of the stuff i buy something that i realize when i see my receipt when i went back to my house. The next day i went again to the super market and i pay the stuff because i didnt want the girl probably to pay the amount..i mean i dont have any problem to pay for my ticket or try avoid, i am not a kid and i really am lawful and i ve never had troubles in my country or here in uk so i have take all this a bit bad!

 

 

Ps: They said that we ll call me before the letter, this is something good?

[sailor sam]

My take on this is that as you live in Penzance and you presumably take this journey on a regular basis, then it's hard to accept that you wouldn't go directly to the ticket office rather than attempt to leave the station. Also you mention 'English laws' and that you are not familiar with them. Well my friend as you have chosen to live here then it is your responsibility to be aware of the rules!

[kannkos]

My take on this is that as you live in Penzance and you presumably take this journey on a regular basis, then it's hard to accept that you wouldn't go directly to the ticket office rather than attempt to leave the station. Also you mention 'English laws' and that you are not familiar with them. Well my friend as you have chosen to live here then it is your responsibility to be aware of the rules!

 

I am sorry but you clearly didnt read the post from the beggining, you ll notice that there wasnt way to the tickets before i meet the inspectors. About the laws you are absolutely right and its clearly my fault, as i said before i stuck to the penalty fares rules in the first capitals website.

[dreadpiratesteve]

You live in Penzance and work in Hayle? If so, how did you get to Hayle for work?

[sailor sam]

I am sorry but you clearly didnt read the post from the beggining, you ll notice that there wasnt way to the tickets before i meet the inspectors. About the laws you are absolutely right and its clearly my fault, as i said before i stuck to the penalty fares rules in the first capitals website.

 

Ok, well if it was the case that A) there is no ticket facilities at Hayle, B) there was no sign of anyone on board the train selling tickets and C) the ticket inspectors were between the train and exit to the station (or ticket office) at Penzance, then I cannot possibly see how you can be prosecuted. However, I find it very surprising that the inspectors would position themselves on a station which would absolutely prevent a passenger who has just alighted from a train, the opportunity to attempt to purchase a ticket before leaving the station.

[kannkos]

Ok, well if it was the case that A) there is no ticket facilities at Hayle, B) there was no sign of anyone on board the train selling tickets and C) the ticket inspectors were between the train and exit to the station (or ticket office) at Penzance, then I cannot possibly see how you can be prosecuted. However, I find it very surprising that the inspectors would position themselves on a station which would absolutely prevent a passenger who has just alighted from a train, the opportunity to attempt to purchase a ticket before leaving the station.

 

Yes unfortunately this is what happen..my fault is that i had to find the ticket officer inside the train but this is something i didnt know and i really dont have a problem to pay a penalty fare, but if they prosecute me i think is too much for my case.

[kannkos]

You live in Penzance and work in Hayle? If so, how did you get to Hayle for work?

 

 

In the morning i go to work with a friend by car but the afternoon he can only drive me back sometimes, other times i go with the train.

[sailor sam]

Yes unfortunately this is what happen..my fault is that i had to find the ticket officer inside the train but this is something i didnt know and i really dont have a problem to pay a penalty fare, but if they prosecute me i think is too much for my case.

 

I'm not so sure that is the case. Can't see it reasonable to expect a passenger (WITH NO OTHER MEANS OF BEING ABLE TO PURCHASE A TICKET) to hunt down a conductor on the train. I would imagine that it would be the train operator's responsibility (IF THERE ARE NO OTHER POSSIBLE TICKET FACILITIES AT THE DEPARTURE STATION AVAILABLE) to ensure that you have adequate opportunity to purchase a ticket without that much effort.

 

If the circumstances are as you state and it was me, I would be happy to have my day in court.

[kannkos]

I'm not so sure that is the case. Can't see it reasonable to expect a passenger (WITH NO OTHER MEANS OF BEING ABLE TO PURCHASE A TICKET) to hunt down a conductor on the train. I would imagine that it would be the train operator's responsibility (IF THERE ARE NO OTHER POSSIBLE TICKET FACILITIES AT THE DEPARTURE STATION AVAILABLE) to ensure that you have adequate opportunity to purchase a ticket without that much effort.

 

If the circumstances are as you state and it was me, I would be happy to have my day in court.

 

I ask the inspector how i ll get a ticket in a train station that there is not machines or ofiice? She told me that the ticket officer asks for tickets and we (we were 5-6 people) told her that no one came for tickets..or everyone was blind or i really dont know what to say! After that she told me that anyway you should look for the ticket officer inside the train and if you cant find you should buy a ticket after you depart from the machines. As i mention before i didnt know all this details and propably all the other people too. I really feel bad and i want to get rid of it! At least i hope thae inspector didnt lie, because she said me that if answer to some questions the case ll not go to the court, but i ll pay a fine and they ll call me. Do you know in how many days the letter ll come to my house?

[sailor sam]

If the situation is 100% accurate as you report it, I would not be paying the fine either. As I said, I would be having my day in court. I do not believe it is the passenger's responsibility to go searching for a conductor on the train.

[kannkos]

If the situation is 100% accurate as you report it, I would not be paying the fine either. As I said, I would be having my day in court. I do not believe it is the passenger's responsibility to go searching for a conductor on the train.

 

If i was in my country i ll make the same, but i am alone here and i dont want any troubles, so i really hope to send me a fine and thats it!

[dreadpiratesteve]

If the situation is 100% accurate as you report it, I would not be paying the fine either. As I said, I would be having my day in court. I do not believe it is the passenger's responsibility to go searching for a conductor on the train.

 

Unfortunately, the conductors main role is the safety of passengers on board the train and not the sale of tickets (which is a secondary role).

 

As from other threads, once the letter from First arrives (can take 6-8 weeks). Write to them using the reference codes, explain it was not your intention to avoid paying your fare and that you would be happy to pay the fare due plus any reasonable administrative costs to bring the matter to a conclusion without resorting to taking the matter to court.

 

In the meantime, now you are aware, if you catch the train to seek out the guard prior to getting off the train. Alternatively, if you know which days you need to get the train, pre-purchase your tickets at Penzance.

[kannkos]

Unfortunately, the conductors main role is the safety of passengers on board the train and not the sale of tickets (which is a secondary role).

 

As from other threads, once the letter from First arrives (can take 6-8 weeks). Write to them using the reference codes, explain it was not your intention to avoid paying your fare and that you would be happy to pay the fare due plus any reasonable administrative costs to bring the matter to a conclusion without resorting to taking the matter to court.

 

In the meantime, now you are aware, if you catch the train to seek out the guard prior to getting off the train. Alternatively, if you know which days you need to get the train, pre-purchase your tickets at Penzance.

 

Thank you very much for your infos, certainly i ll be aware and this ll not happen again.

 

Ps: Any chance to phone first capital before they send me a letter and apologize and pay a fine or it ll be useless?

Edited April 26, 2013 by kannkos

[dx100uk]

prob useless

 

might not even happen.

 

SS - sadly there are strict rules

poss the very first one

 

wherte by you must get a ticket

 

and certainly there are rules you must seek the conductor

 

dx

[kannkos]

I see..i am concern a bit because maybe i ll need to change work and city (inside uk) in about a month and i really dont know how they ll find me! Also as i told you before, the inspector told me that they will call me first but even if i have read a lot of cases in web i didnt see to call anyone, thats good or bad you believe?

[Migster]

I'm not at all familiar with Penzance station, but this aerial view seems to indicate that you could have accessed the main covered part of the station (which is presumably where the ticket office is) by walking back along the platform a little. If that's the case, it may be difficult for you to argue that it wasn't possible for you to buy a ticket, without first leaving the station.

https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=penzance+station&hl=en&ll=50.122116,-5.531836&spn=0.001355,0.003484&sll=50.121742,-5.532107&sspn=0.001355,0.004506&t=h&gl=uk&hnear=Penzance&z=19

[kannkos]

I'm not at all familiar with Penzance station, but this aerial view seems to indicate that you could have accessed the main covered part of the station (which is presumably where the ticket office is) by walking back along the platform a little. If that's the case, it may be difficult for you to argue that it wasn't possible for you to buy a ticket, without first leaving the station.

https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=penzance+station&hl=en&ll=50.122116,-5.531836&spn=0.001355,0.003484&sll=50.121742,-5.532107&sspn=0.001355,0.004506&t=h&gl=uk&hnear=Penzance&z=19

 

No you cant access the station when the train arrives from the exterior rail but i ll not argue anyone anyway, i ll apologize and i hope to this case stop there!

[sailor sam]

prob useless

 

might not even happen.

 

SS - sadly there are strict rules

poss the very first one

 

wherte by you must get a ticket

 

and certainly there are rules you must seek the conductor

 

Yes but those rules must be fair and reasonable. IMHO it is unreasonable to expect a passenger to walk from one end of the train to the other to seek out a guard/conductor to purchase a ticket which was not possible to purchase from the departing station. What if the passenger is disabled or elderly for example? Or what if there was quite a few passengers and the train is packed?

 

Having said that, I do not believe that the TOC would have no alternative facility available and would position inspectors at the destination station is such a way that they could 'intercept' alighting passengers before having an opportunity to pay for the journey they had just taken. To me that is unreasonable.

 

I am of course assuming that the OP is being entirely truthful.

[RPI]

Hmmm, are you sure that the train manager didn't go through the train after St Erth saying "Does anybody need to purchase a ticket.....", I think you may just find that he did.

[Old-CodJA]

Hmmm, are you sure that the train manager didn't go through the train after St Erth saying "Does anybody need to purchase a ticket.....", I think you may just find that he did.

 

 

The record of timed ticket issues by the staff on the train will of course be one of the pieces of evidence that the TOC will be using to confirm their case.

 

Any ticket issued after the train left St Erth and before it reached Penzance will show that the Conductor did indeed make him / herself available for travellers to declare their journey and pay their fare.

[sailor sam]

No you cant access the station when the train arrives from the exterior rail but i ll not argue anyone anyway, i ll apologize and i hope to this case stop there!

 

If your account is fully accurate and truthful, why would you need to apologise? According to you, you had absolutely no opportunity to buy a ticket for the journey until you were stopped by the inspectors hence it wasn't your fault. TBH, I don't believe you. Because if it was me, (as I said previously) I would willingly have my day in court.