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I have a question, can you tell me if a foreign credit card debt can be registered on a persons UK credit file? I have a credit card debt in Switzerland , which I fully intend to pay when I get back to gain full employment and I have communicated this fact to them. However I recently received a letter form a UK debt collection company saying that if I did not pay in 5 days etc that they would register this debt on my UK credit file, which I don't see how can be true given it is foreign credit card

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^ Thank you so much for the quick reply ... it was actually a Manchester based UK debt collection company in there letter that threatened to register this with the credit reference agencies ... which I could not understand as I thought they could only register UK consumere credit agreements ... I am frustrated by this as I have made it clear to the Swiss credit card company that I will pay them once I am working again ... and I am really not inclined to even deal with this UK debt collection company .. as I am not sure what view a UK court would take of a Swiss credit agreement anyway?

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Maybe the sole director made a better car salesman than a debt collector http://companycheck.co.uk/director/906735143

 

As far as I'm aware there are no reciprocal agreements between the UK & Switzerland so they would have great difficulty in obtaining a CCJ here. Even if they tried you can contest the jurisdiction of the UK court as any agreement you have with the credit card company will be governed by Swiss law.

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^ You sir are incredibly helpful!! thank you so much for your help! I am as I said earlier happy to resolve this directly with the Swiss company , but I am definitely not inclined to deal with these awful debt collection companies .. I think I will just ignore what actually appears to be a one man band trying to threaten me with something his company can't do !!

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Thank you again ... seems strange a major credit card company would go down the route of using a company such as this ... particularly when I have been in communication with them ... mind you , said card company is part of a rather large swiss bank that has not showered itself in glory recently with its decisions or trading staff ..so who knows !!?

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Creditors both in the UK & abroad tend to use their own 'in-house' collections who in turn farm out individual accounts to the bottom feeders of the collection industry who work on commission. Periodically the creditors put all their bad debts into portfolio of many hundreds if not thousands of accounts which are then auctioned for a fraction of the total debts then they claim tax relief. A company such as his is not in that league because they are sold for hundreds of thousands going into the millions of pounds.

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Interesting ... so basically what is happening is said Swiss Bank is simply trying to get my account of its books by passing my account to a guy that has (it would seem) no legal recourse in this country? I am very impressed with your knowledge base ... did you work in the industry in some form?

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He will be acting on their behalf on a commission basis. Although it is a foreign debt he has to abide by UK debt collection guidelines, one of which is not to try and deceive or threaten an action he cannot legally do i.e take you to court, only the creditor can do that.

did you work in the industry in some form?
Six years of being on CAG & plenty of research + a PhD from the university of life. ;)
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Ok ... thank you my friend!! I appreciate it ... I will continue to correspond with the Swiss Bank themselves .. and react if they themselves decide to take me to court! Which from what you say would seem a hard thing for them to do given its a Swiss agreement .. the main thing is that these Premium Collections bods in Manchester have pretty much zero power ...

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Hi nigelmihell,

 

Been a long time since I worked in CHF

 

From my memory - you can declare your CC as a negative asset on your income tax returns in Switzerland and reduce your tax liability.

 

Below is an extract from the englishforum Switzerland regarding some aspects of Swiss law:

 

the process of dealing with bills and those naughty agencies that sometimes send you nasty letters.

 

Here is the basic process:

Bill send with date by which to pay.

Optional Reminder sent to pay the bill

Optional 2nd and often final reminder send to pay the bill often with a

charge SFr. 5-20 for late payment.

 

 

Optional Sent to debt recovery agency and lots of letters and charges!

Betreibung or Poursuite - the formal legal process to recover the money.

Thanks to HeatherM for the French!

The important thing to note in the above process description is that many things that are assumed by many to be "their right" are actually not and legally as soon as the bill has not been paid and the date required for payment has passed you **could** have a Betreibung as the next step.

 

It is however entirely normal to receive a pleasantish reminder that you have not paid perhaps 2 weeks after the date of payment has passed. The second letter will probably not be so pleasant and include a request for an additional few francs for their trouble!

 

Thereafter if you are lucky comes a third reminder or passing directly to the fun part the inkasso bureaus. Apparently Intrum Justitia are the angels of this group and the way they work can best be described as blind. So in order to deal with this group you need to be aware of your rights and what you need to pay and what you definitely do not need to pay.

 

Legally there are two things you always need to pay.

1. The main amount owed

2. Interest on that amount at the rate of 5% - still I think but it might be more now unless this is otherwise set in the T&Cs of the company.

 

It is also possible and likely that to the original main amount you need to pay the amount billed for reminder charges in German Mahngebühr.

 

And that is more or less it.

 

However the debt recovery agency likes to make money so additional items appear on your "bill"...

 

Now what you definitely don't need to pay are the kosts of the debt recovery agency. This is covered in Art 27. Abs. 3 SchKG which states that the costs of representing the debtee or creditor are not allowed to be passed to the debtor. In other words if the company engages a third party to recover its debts then they need to pay the third party and not you.

 

So from the written law these costs are not allowed to appear as a debt however you will see references to Art. 106 OR appearing on any letter from a debt recovery agency with sentences such as Verzugsschaden or Forderung gemäss Art. 106 OR.

 

Another trick is div. Auslagen or Rechsberaterkosten or Rechstauskunft or...

These are all things that are not permitted to be charged to the debtor according to the SchKG - I mean to actually need to take legal advice for debt recovery for a company specialised in debt recovery is blatent robbery - thats all they do...

 

Then there is the nasty Teilzahlungszuschläge. This effectively means that it is possible to repay the debt in parts and or at a later date effectively postponing the inevitable. However, if this is to be permitted it falls under the Konsumkreditgesetz or the law of consumer credit. The first part of this is the requirement for a bonitätscheck ie your ability to repay the debt. Is this not why you are here in the first place because you cannot? And if you can repay the debt then you would, rather than face the substantial costs of Teilzahnlungszuschläge. The effective annual interest rate needs to be made clear and when this is ca 50% you would not sign up for such a thing so it is surpressed which of course is against the law. Further you are not given the chance for early repayment again something which is not legal. All in all this is a pretty nasty business...

 

So what do you actually do. Firstly everything must be via Fax and or registered mail and you must keep a copy of everything...

1. Request a copy of their power of attorney (right to represent the company in question). This is a legal requirement they must respond to. Inform them that until such document is provided you will enter into no correspondence with them and assume they have no legal right of representation.

2. Calculate how much you owe the company and in a separate post calculate the interest due. It is not legal to add the interest to the main amount otherwise later amounts would be charged interest twice.

3. Remove all positions that are irrelevant such as Div Auslagen, Rechstkosten, blabla gem OR 106.

4. When the power of attorney arrives pay the amount as calculated in 3 to the account the debt recovery agency provided.

5. Don't let additional mails with additional amounts frustrate or annoy you - simply save them and otherwise ignore them.

6. As soon as and assuming you receive a Betreibung you need to declare you will take the legal route as you owe nothing.

7. That will generally be it as they cannot take it any further - well they can but they lose and you can recover your costs if they take it further.

 

HTH

 

G

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Hi Gerson

 

Thank you fo taking the time to write such an all encompassing reply. I want to check though ...what you have written is I understand all relevant in Switz ... but not as I understand it here in the UK??

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In the vast majority of cases unless they already have a judgment from the country of origin it is just not economical for them to pursue through a UK court. The time; energy & cost in the main is too prohibitive for them unless it is for a considerable amount. What makes it even more daunting for them is the fact that they would be unlikely to succeed & even if they did unless they can be sure of your ability to repay they would in all likelihood be throwing good money after bad. Even more so if there was any chance of you applying for bankruptcy.

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Hi,

 

In Switzerland you have to BE declared BR by someone/thing, you cannot do it yourself (voluntary). Plus the law surrounding this is a nightmare.....

 

As cerberusalert has said it is not normally cost-effective to bring a case against you in the UK, even if it was they would have to follow Swiss law.

 

P.S. Did you know that the maximum allowable interest rate is 15% (see http://www.amcham.ch/members_interests/p_business_ch.asp?s=2&c=6#387 for more info)

 

G

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Hi Cerberusalert,

 

My interaction with the one man band form Altrincham Continues ... today i recived a letter from Premier Collections that if i did not pay in ful in five days they would be issue a Bankruptcy petition here in the UK sat followed by a photocopied notice to apply for a County Court Claim ...both of which I am told by others only hold water on UK credit agreements ... I am tempted to call him and tell him I know he is talking rubbish .. but I guess I will just continue to ignore him and communicate with the company in Switzerland directly

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Before they could apply for a bankruptcy petition they would need to send you a Statutory Demand & even then it would need to be the owner of the debt & more than £750 would need to be owed.

 

It would be pretty pointless making a county court claim because bankruptcy would include the debt.

 

personally I would ignore unless you receive a SD.

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Thanks again Cerberusalert ...it is more than £750 ... but I have mad it clear several times that I will to pay them when and only when I am earning again ... this guys letters are so badly written and the country court threat doesn't event contain an actual court name or reference ... I am stunned a global bank is using this guy

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