Help with Housing Benefit Fraud Case

[Andy1580]

Hi Guys

 

I am currently involved with a Benefit fraud case and I am due in court next Thursday.

 

I was overpaid housing benefit for 14 months.

 

I was originally claiming JSA and Housing. Once I had a job i went to the Job centre and asked for these to stop, my JSA stopped but not my housing.

 

I was sent a letter to go to an interview under caution but as I had moved this was sent to my parents address, I called and gave them my new address. They got this wrong and subsequent letters went to an incorrect address, including a summons for court.

 

I was then arrested at work for Failure to attend court and taken to Birmingham Magistrates Court where Birmingham City Council produced evidence that I had never seen.

 

Case was adjourned and I was provided with a duty solictor at the time, they have now told me if I plead guilty it would cost me £500, if i plead not guilty it will cost me £1500.

 

I am stumped as to what to do. I did inform the council of change of details but they failed to act on them. Obviously the money was paid into my account.

 

If i decide to plead guilty, is it worth having a brief?

 

Can anyone advise on whats best to do?

 

Thanks

[abc123def]

When you stopped the JSA with the DWP, did you inform the LA about your new job so they could reassess your eligibility for HB and CTB? Do you have evidence that you told them?

 

If the answer is no, then you failed in your duty to notify the LA of the change in circumstances and so you are guilty of that. Others can advise whether a solicitor might be able to mitigate in sentencing for you though and whether it is worth having one even if you do plead guilty.

[Andy1580]

When telling DWP they advised me they would stop everything. I asked at the time if this was all I needed to stop HB and they told me yes.

 

Never informed LA.

[postggj]

I have to ask this

 

Why did you not notice the housing benefit still going into your bank account each month

 

They court will want to know this if ignorance or neglienece on the part of the DWP will be in mitigation

[Andy1580]

As part of my new job i moved house to a new city. I didnt change my bank details to the new address.

 

I hardly look at my statements, once the bills etc had been taken, i check my balance at a cashpoint and spend what I have - I'm sure i am not the only one who does this.

 

I am not denying the money has gone in, and I am prepared to make payments to clear it.

[45002]

Hi Guys

 

I am currently involved with a Benefit fraud case and I am due in court next Thursday.

 

I was overpaid housing benefit for 14 months.

I was originally claiming JSA and Housing. Once I had a job i went to the Job centre and asked for these to stop, my JSA stopped but not my housing.

 

I was sent a letter to go to an interview under caution but as I had moved this was sent to my parents address, I called and gave them my new address. They got this wrong and subsequent letters went to an incorrect address, including a summons for court.

 

I was then arrested at work for Failure to attend court and taken to Birmingham Magistrates Court where Birmingham City Council produced evidence that I had never seen.

 

Case was adjourned and I was provided with a duty solicitor at the time, they have now told me if I plead guilty it would cost me £500, if i plead not guilty it will cost me £1500.

 

I am stumped as to what to do. I did inform the council of change of details but they failed to act on them. Obviously the money was paid into my account.

 

If i decide to plead guilty, is it worth having a brief?

 

Can anyone advise on what's best to do?

 

Thanks

 

When telling DWP they advised me they would stop everything. I asked at the time if this was all I needed to stop HB and they told me yes.

 

Never informed LA.

 

I have to ask this

 

Why did you not notice the housing benefit still going into your bank account each month

They court will want to know this if ignorance or negligence on the part of the DWP will be in mitigation

 

As part of my new job I moved house to a new city. I didn't change my bank details to the new address.

 

I hardly look at my statements, once the bills etc had been taken, I check my balance at a cash-point and spend what I have - I'm sure i am not the only one who does this.

I am not denying the money has gone in, and I am prepared to make payments to clear it.

 

 

 

Andy1580

 

How much housing benefit over paid for 14 months ?

Edited April 18, 2013 by 45002

[Andy1580]

I believe its around the £4500 mark. Although I am yet to see the evidence as it was sent to an incorrect address and is now with my solicitors.

[45002]

I believe its around the £4500 mark. Although I am yet to see the evidence as it was sent to an incorrect address and is now with my solicitors.

 

Do you get bank statement in the post or access your bank account on line or something else ?

 

You would have to replay All of the over payment,plus what ever Fines or Prison sentences or both the court may use !

[Andy1580]

My statements are online.

 

I can make the payment in full, does anyone know if this would stop any proceedings?

[postggj]

I will be honest with you and give you my own OPINION on this matter.

 

If i had an unexpected bonus in my bank account each month of extra funds, i would like to know where they came from. The banks can give a statement if you go inn and ask and it will show a payment from the local authority

 

You know how much you get from your wages and outgoings such as council tax etc, as this has been going on for 14 months, you will have to have evidence to substantiate your statement of mitigation

 

The court has to decide if the offence has taken place (Actus reus) and if you had a guilty mind at the time the offence was committed (Mens rea)

 

The fact that you would question why the extra unconfirmed amounts were going into your account would settle the "guilty mind", and after 14 months would imply knowledge of these unknown amounts.

 

The offence itself has been proved in that payments went into your bank account that you were not entitled to.

 

If i were a justice of the peace, all the evidence points to a deliberate act of appropriation of local authority funds when you were not entitled to it, and failure to declare it within a reasonable period of time. 14 months is just to long. Most people live month to month and have trouble juggling funds to meet their direct debits. That is how a court will see it

 

If you are guilty then plead guilty with your mitigation and see if the court takes it into consideration. You will not need a duty solicitor for that but if you have the funds, you are well advised to get one as this will be classed as fraud.

 

You can of course plead "not guilty", but on the facts presented so far, and only in my "OPINION" will need some confirmed evidence that you did notify the DWP and informed the local authority that you are no longer claiming job seekers allowance.

 

Repaying the funds unlawfully appropriated will act in mitigation but the fact remains the offence was committed and as it will be the crown prosecutor to decide to drop the case, not a solicitor, i very much doubt it

 

Informing the local authority about a change in circumstance by the DWP i thought was automatic, they did with me and stopped my own housing benefit when i ceased claiming job seekers

 

I will strongly suggest getting a solicitor to represent yourself in this instance in court

Edited April 18, 2013 by squaddie

[45002]

My statements are online.

 

I can make the payment in full, does anyone know if this would stop any proceedings?

 

So you access your bank statements on line,plus mini statements at a cash point and never noticed Housing benefit payments still going into your bank account for 14 months !

 

Only your Solicitor can advise if repaying All the money would affect what Sentence would be ?

 

Andy1580

 

You do realises the court case will end up in the local news media and on the internet ...

Edited April 18, 2013 by 45002

[Andy1580]

Thanks Squaddie for your advice.

 

Is the fact my JSA stopped not evidence that I had contacted them?

[hine moa]

My statements are online.

 

I can make the payment in full, does anyone know if this would stop any proceedings?

 

I don't think it will stop proceedings, although repaying it in full before your next court date might make them deal with you more leniently along with holding your hands up and admitting what happened, you didn't notice the money was still coming in and you should have, you're sorry, you've learnt your lesson to check monthly bank statements in future etc etc and have paid the full amount back as you know it wasn't really yours to have etc etc.

 

Someone else may think differently don't know what is your solicitor saying you should do? You mentioned one in a previous post.

[Andy1580]

HI Hine. Thanks for this.

 

Solicitor won't advise til ive paid (obviously) but they want £500 to plead guilty. If i do as you say and then plead guilty, do i need a solicitor?

[45002]

Thanks Squaddie for your advice.

 

Is the fact my JSA stopped not evidence that I had contacted them?

 

It clearly states on housing benefit notification letters your receive,you must declare any change of circumstances to local housing benefit department.

The fact you let this go on for 14 months doesn't look good for you.

 

 

Speak to the solicitor ASAP ....

[postggj]

You do not need a solicitor to plead guilty

 

I would recommend finding a local law centre for advice as it is free

 

If you wish the court to take into consideration mitigating reasons why the offence was committed, write it out and give to the justice of the peace on the day

 

The right to access to justice for the common man now stinks in this country, the above case now proves this

 

BUT PLEASE TRY THE CAB OR LAW CENTRE FOR PROFESSIONAL ADVICE,

[abc123def]

You don't need a solicitor, you can do this yourself. Whether a solicitor has some skills in mitigation is sometimes the case.

 

The fact is the DWP and the LA are two different agencies, and when you apply for HB you read and sign an agreement to inform THEM of any changes. The DWP do sometimes inform the LA but more often they don't and it is not their job to, it is yours.

 

My advice would be to pay the overpaid amount straight away, there may well be a penalty in addition to that and costs later but it will go in your favour. You are guilty, whether you were aware of the money or not as you failed to notify the LA of a change of circumstances, ignorance is not a defence and your agreement with the LA when you applied for HB informed you of your duties.

 

What's done is done though and I wish you all the best, hope the penalties are not too dear on top of the overpayment and lessons learnt.

[postggj]

ignorance is not a defence

THAT HAS NO LEGAL STANDING IN THE ENGLISH LEGAL SYSTEM AND IS INCORRECT

[hine moa]

HI Hine. Thanks for this.

 

Solicitor won't advise til ive paid (obviously) but they want £500 to plead guilty. If i do as you say and then plead guilty, do i need a solicitor?

 

Is the solicitor experienced in Benefit Fraud cases? If so, I would personally think it would be £500 well spent if they have the experience to convince magistrates you did not 'intentionally' set out to commit fraud. This process won't stop now, what you need to be doing is reducing the long term damage it could do you and the solicitor is the one that can approach it in the right way.

[postggj]

Is the solicitor experienced in Benefit Fraud cases? If so, I would personally think it would be £500 well spent if they have the experience to convince magistrates you did not 'intentionally' set out to commit fraud. This process won't stop now, what you need to be doing is reducing the long term damage it could do you and the solicitor is the one that can approach it in the right way.

 

totally agree on the above

 

intent has to be proved (GUILTY MIND)

[Andy1580]

Thanks for the advice everyone.

 

Does anyone know if this is classed as a criminal offence? I work with a company who partners with a bank. I am now allowed a record. I have been told previously this would be considered as a social security charge and therefore not show up as a criminal record?

[postggj]

This will be recorded on the police national computer IF CONVICTED

 

What have you been charged with on the summons

[Andy1580]

Failure to notify of change of circumstances.

[45002]

Thanks for the advice everyone.

 

Does anyone know if this is classed as a criminal offense? I work with a company who partners with a bank. I am now allowed a record. I have been told previously this would be considered as a social security charge and therefore not show up as a criminal record?

 

Failure to notify of change of circumstances.

 

 

Yes

 

Criminal Offense,upon conviction

 

The case can be dealt with at magistrate court or even be sent to Crown court for sentencing !

 

Plus the court case will end up on the Internet and local news media....

[hine moa]

Thanks for the advice everyone.

 

Does anyone know if this is classed as a criminal offence? I work with a company who partners with a bank. I am now allowed a record. I have been told previously this would be considered as a social security charge and therefore not show up as a criminal record?

 

This is why I feel you really need a solicitor, if convicted, then yes you will have a criminal record. Sadly, it will also possibly appear in the local court round up section of the newspaper. Did you state you were arrested at work? Do your bosses already know of what is happening? If not then maybe you should let them know, explain it as you have here.