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    • I'm trying to understand it all but I certainly tend to agree with my colleague @dx100uk that it looks as if you may have been taken for a ride. You found an advertisement for a bag on an online sales site. Instead of going through the established procedure of that site, which presumably allows them to recover a commission from the seller you started dealing directly with the seller who is an unknown person to you and of course that allowed the seller to avoid paying the commission. At whose suggestion was it that you went off-site? You then pay by PayPal but instead of logging it with PayPal as a payment for a purchased item, you tell PayPal that it was actually simply a gift or transaction between friends and family. This also allowed the seller to avoid paying a PayPal fee on the money. At whose suggestion was it that you paid in this way?       I don't say that you definitely have been scammed, but it doesn't look very good. This is how it might have happened: after you agreed to take the transaction off-site, so you lost the protection of the established system – and the seller avoided the commission and also avoided the sales site knowing that they had sold their item, you then agreed to pay the seller some money – but not for a purchase – simply as a gift. This has two consequences. Firstly, the seller avoids a PayPal fee and secondly, because PayPal has been misled as to the purpose of the payment, you lose the protection of PayPal if it turns out that you've been scammed or there is some other problem with the transaction. The seller then apparently sent you the parcel and they sent you pictures of a package with your address on it. Separately they sent you a Hermes tracking number – but there is no evidence that the package was actually posted to your address. The seller might simply have taken a picture with your address and sent that to you by way of reassurance – and then changed the label and posted the parcel to themselves but sent you a tracking number which is inaccessible to you and in respect of which you will be prevented from getting any information. All you've seen is a parcel with your address on it. All you've been given is a tracking number which satisfied you for a while until the parcel did not arrive and then when you started to make enquiries, you found that you were unable to access any details referring to the tracking number. Of course the tracking number says that the item was delivered – because maybe it was – but in that case it was delivered to the address on the parcel which might have been the seller's own address – or the address of a friend. I don't want to say that this is definitely how it happened, but it is a plausible scenario. Of course Hermes is an awful lot of parcels – but on the other hand I expect that most of the parcel is that going to Hermes hands are delivered successfully. We only get the bad stories on this forum. I can imagine that Hermes rate of successful deliveries is better than 97% because otherwise people wouldn't simply just hate them, they would go out of business.   We can help you bring a complaint against Hermes if you want. However, on the basis of what you say, the odds are stacked against you but it would be useful to try and find out the address which was associated with tracking number. As far as your apparent willingness to travel hundred and 50 miles to ask for your money back, don't bother. If you did actually go there, are you sure that the seller actually lives at the address that you have been given? What evidence do you have that? Of course if you found that the seller didn't reside at that address then it is slamdunk that you have been scammed. But then what are you going to do? You can try to inform the police but of course it won't get you anywhere. You can inform the sales website – but they will say that you brought it on yourself because you agreed to go off-site. You can inform PayPal – that they will say that because you sent the money which was calculated to avoid their fees, you have lost the protection. If you travelled the 150 miles and found that the seller did reside at that address, do you really think that they are going to hand your money over to you? If they are acting dishonestly then they will simply say that it is nothing to do with them, that they addressed it all correctly and they don't understand what has happened and that this is simply Hermes up to their old tricks. What are you going to do? You simply risk getting into a very nasty argument and depending on how bad it went, you might even find that the police are called and I'm afraid that they would be looking at you – not the seller. Maybe you can answer the questions that I've post above as to who it is who initiated the various ways of doing business.    
    • The legal campaign's going well then. The recount in Wisconsin gave Trump more votes but Biden even more, at a cost of $3m. And a donor to the organisation bringing the failed cases is suing to get his $2.5m back.   https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/nov/28/joe-biden-gains-votes-in-wisconsin-county-after-trump-ordered-recount
    • Yes Unicorn feed tax again, can't sue the keeper for more than the Original Charge, so any additional Debt Collection fees aka the £60 they add is abuse,iof process as per HHJ Harvey at Lewes county Court What lookedinfroinfo is indicating is that the main signage on entry and dotted around is merely an " Invitation to Treat", not the offer, the Offer and Acceptance occurs at the payment machine, so wording there is key.
    • Hello and welcome to CAG.   People will be along later to advise you, please bear with us until they're able to get here.   In the meantime, I suggest you edit your attachment because you've left your name on it. Please check it carefully and remove anything that can identify you.   HB
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Lowell & recon Credit Agreement from 1999 not signed - help pls


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Oh I see

 

Can anyone else expand on that is DD is busy?

 

Would like to get this nipped in the bud to be honest, its playing on my mind a bit. They issued a stat demand on a different debt and I had to go to court, cant be doing with that upset again.

 

Thanks

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Debtangel, we are both at the same stage with these people. Your letter sounds very much like mine in that they are being very selective with the truth.

 

My replies from now are going to be very simple and to the point, they are getting no more info than they need.

 

One question about pre 2007 agreements and recons though, I have been doing a lot of reading lately and am finding conflicting arguments about the need for the original agreement, can anybody clarify this and are there any links you could point me too please?

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Dear Sir/Madam

 

This is a formal request under the Consumer Protection From Unfair Trading Regulations (CPUTR) 2008.

 

I require your organisation to provide written confirmation that states clearly whether you currently hold an original signed Consumer Credit Agreement, or whether you do not hold an original signed Consumer Credit Agreement pertaining to myself.

 

For the avoidance of doubt, an original signed Consumer Credit Agreement is just that; not an application for credit and not a reconstructed or microfiched document from other sources but indeed the original signed document purporting to be signed by myself.

 

Please note that until such times as a legally enforceable, original Consumer Credit Agreement can be produced and a copy sent to me by return, then this letter is not an acknowledgement of debt and this account will remain in an unenforceable state protected in line with s.127 CCA 1974.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

Before anyone jumps in, i have included S.127(3) CCA 1974 as this account dates back to 1999 and is a credit card debt

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Yes, that is right, but there is also more which should be included.

 

I also never mention the option of court, just in case it puts ideas into their head.

 

I got Lowells to write off a very large sum a couple of years ago, and I'll post shortly but I'm having to run around a bit this week as it's the end of term.

 

As fishman knows, you should never, ever reply to a DCA until the last possible minute as every week passing gets you closer to statute barred! :-)

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Hi there,

 

I've read through what I sent which got rid of them and as you and Fishman are both going to be replying to the same letters, and they need to look different, I'll let you put it in your own words.

 

Firstly refer to the CPUTR 2008, as above.

 

Then refer to the Waksman Judgment in Carey v HSBC (doesn't matter if you did this in an earlier letter, do it again) Paragraph 234 (4), and repeat the question you've asked in the CPUTR paragraph, but more bluntly. Do you, or do you not, hold a copy of the original alleged credit agreement?

 

Then you should say that the documents they have sent in no way prove that you ever signed a credit agreement which contained the Prescribed Terms as required in the Regulations of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and that they are deliberately trying to mislead you by sending documents that they know very well are not the original documents in an attempt to obtain money which is not legally due to them.

 

And finally say that you will be forwarding their response to the Office of Fair Trading and the Financial Ombudsman.

 

You can make it more punchy if you like.

 

DD

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  • 1 month later...

Hi everyone, just to let you know, they replied and they DO NOT hold a copy of the original credit agreement. Huzzah.

 

So my next question is, when does the debt become statute barred? Last payment was 2009, but my last correspondence to them was 2013.

 

Many thanks!

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What was the correspondence, did you admit liability in anyway?

Any Letters I Draft are N0T approved by CAG and no personal liability is accepted.

Please Consider making a donation to keep this site running!

Nemo Mortalium Omnibus Horis Sapit: Animo et Fide:

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No I haven't admitted anything, I have referred to "the alleged debt" in correspondence.

 

Also, earlier in the thread I was advised to contact OFT and FOS, what, if any benefit would this be to me?

 

They have threatened various debt collection scenarios i.e sending a debt collector round, putting an attachment on my earnings and passing the account to their Solicitor.

 

They placed my account on hold last month and said I had 30 days to reply, at which time debt collection will start again. I don't think there is any point replying to them anymore.

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If no payment or written acknowledgment has been made or is made the debt becomes stat barred in the month of the final missed payment i.e. sometime in 2015

Any Letters I Draft are N0T approved by CAG and no personal liability is accepted.

Please Consider making a donation to keep this site running!

Nemo Mortalium Omnibus Horis Sapit: Animo et Fide:

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Hi everyone, just to let you know, they replied and they DO NOT hold a copy of the original credit agreement. Huzzah.

 

So my next question is, when does the debt become statute barred? Last payment was 2009, but my last correspondence to them was 2013.

 

Many thanks!

 

That's brilliant news? It's always good to put them on the spot.

 

As Brigadier says, it will become statute barred in 2015.

 

I wouldn't worry about reporting them at the moment. Just keep your head down and keep counting off the days. :-)

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If you do get any letters threatening further action just send a letter back saying that as they have informed you that they do not hold an agreement for this alleged account you are perplexed by their letter.

 

That's all. Just the one sentence.

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Hi DA,

 

If the last payment was made in 2009, the debt would be SB'd 6 years after then, subject to minor points.

 

As regards acknowledging the debt in writing, corresponding about it does NOT necessarily acknowledge the debt.

 

For instance, asking for proof of the debt like a credit agreement does NOT count. An example that WOULD acknowledge the debt could be if you wrote to them referring to the debt or account saying you can't afford to pay now but hope to pay towards it in the next 6 months.

 

:wink:

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Sorry, I posted my reply above without seeing the comments on THIS page.

 

:wink:

We could do with some help from you

                                                                PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

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Please give something if you can. We all give our time free of charge but the site has bills to pay.

 

Thanks !:-)

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  • 8 months later...

Good morning.

 

Sadly still getting harassed about this.

 

I had continued to receive threatening letters mentioning that

they would petition to bankrupt me or issue a summons.

 

They passed the debt to their own in-house debt collectors

(if you can call "passed" they probably walked across the room and stuck it on someone else's desk!)

who again were sending these threats.

 

I replied to this debt collectors a few months ago referring them to my previous correspondence

with Lowell and told them that according to Guidance Notes issued by the OFT

on sections 77, 78 and 79 of the CCA 1974 the duty to give information

to debtors and the consequences of non-compliance on the enforceability of the agreement.

 

I also referred them to the Credit Service Association and suggested that they were breaking the code

of conduct and that I also believed that they are in breach of the Consumer Protection

from Unfair Trading Regs 2008.

 

I received a reply from Lowell re the letter I sent.

 

They stated that they had complied with all legal requirements

and guidance and that they haven't breached the CPUTR guidelines.

 

I continued to receive letters again from their debt collection agency

and now I am receiving letters from a Solicitors threatening court action.

 

I do have a couple of other things in my favour.

 

When they sent the so called copy credit agreement

(as previously mentioned a blank piece of paper with my name and old address on)

 

(1) they only sent statements from 2009 until 2010

(2)The statements were not signed

(3) The balance on the last statement does not agree with the amount they are chasing me for.

 

Do I continue to sit tight?

Or should I be replying the letter from the Solicitors?

 

Apologies for bringing this up again, but, I suffer from anxiety and these letters are making my health suffer.

 

Many thanks once again.

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whats this a carter threat-o-gram

 

says everything bar WILL do anything

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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