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Lowell & recon Credit Agreement from 1999 not signed - help pls


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Lowell have purchased an old B'card credit card debt which I took out in 1999.

 

I put in a CCA Request in January and have today received a reply.

 

They have not sent any sort of copy of agreement,

and have only put my old address on a blank piece of paper with underneath saying

" YOUR RIGHT TO CANCEL:

Once you have signed this agreement you will have for a short time to cancel it.

 

Exact details of how and when you can do this will be sent to you by post by us", attached was some T & Cs for Barclaycard.

 

The reason this is urgent, is that Lowell have sent a stat demand for a different debt.

 

I thought with the card been taken out in 1999 they had to send a signed credit agreement?

 

 

 

LETTER FROM LOWELL

 

We are in receipt of you recent request for a copy of your agreement.

 

Your original creditor has provided us with the attached reconstituted copy of the credit agreement you entered into with them, which they confirm you would have signed prior to the granting of credit to you. Under section 77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 we are not obliged to send you an exact copy of your signed agreement. We are permitted by those sections of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 to provide you with a reconstituted copy of the version you would have signed.

 

We are also enclosing copy statements for your perusal and retention. Please be advised that the o/s balance shown on these statements does not match the o/s balance. This is due to the fact that they are only upto Aoril 2010 and our account was opened on 5 December 2011.

 

We would also confirm the following information as requested by the above act

 

Balance payable on your account £xxxx

Current state of your account : Defaulted

 

As we have now fully satisfied our obligations required following your request under section 77/78 of the consumer credit act 1974, we look forward to receiving your proposals for settlement of the account within the next ten days.

 

 

 

LETTER FROM BARCLAYCARD

 

I refer to your request for information.

 

The information we must provide to you under the terms of Section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (the *Act*) is prescribed by the Act and by the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983. Section 78 of the Act provides that, where a creditor receives a Section 78 request, the creditor shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (and any document referred in it) and a statement of the account.

 

I enclose a reconstituted copy of your credit agreement together with a copy of the terms of your credit agreement as varied in accordance with section 82(1) if the Act. This is a statement of the terms of your agreement with us and incorporates any variations to the terms since you entered into this agreement. However, the interest rates, fees and charges set out in the agreement may differ from those with discussed with you, due to the current status of your account.

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Also they need to send you a TRUE COPY of the agreement you signed with all the PRESCRIBED TERMS terms on them

 

Lowell are a total waste of space in inferring an agreement is enforceable when it is not and need reporting to the OFT

Edited by squaddie
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You should have a read round other threads in respect of Lowells and Stat Demands.

 

When was the last payment made to this account.

 

If they haven't fulfilled your s78 request then this a reason to apply for set aside.

 

Is there any other dispute on the account with Barclays.

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PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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The Stat demand isn't in respect of this debt, it is in respect of an MBNA debt. I'm sorting that out.

 

I could do with someone to help me reply with specific wording I should be using please.

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The Stat demand isn't in respect of this debt, it is in respect of an MBNA debt. I'm sorting that out.

 

I could do with someone to help me reply with specific wording I should be using please.

 

Sorry, I am confused.. you want specific wording for the Barclay card issue ?

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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?415-POSSIBLE-Letter-when-a-questionable-agreement-application-is-sent

 

There is a draft letter in the link above that you can send in response to a "questionable" agreement.

 

Any reconstruction needs to be "truthful and accurate". From what you say, yours isn't.

 

You should also have received.

 

Terms and conditions from both inception and currently

A statement of account.

 

If you did not receive those as well, then your s78 request has not been complied with.

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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Try it yourself to begin with in formulating a response, its so you understand it

 

If i do it then i will start to use legal terminology, they need to see the response from the normal man in the street

 

say

 

Thank you for your letter dated xyz, enclosing your copy of my barclays credit agreement as to my section 77/78 CCA request

 

I need to inform you that i consider you have not complied with my request in that the agreement you sent me is not a true copy of my original credit agreement with Barclay's. The copy agreement contains no prescribed terms. Until you facilitate my request i consider this account to be in dispute .

 

I require a copy of your complaints procedure in that you are stating an agreement is enforceable in a court of law, when it is obviously not

 

Something along those lines BUT SEND RECORDED DELIVERY

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Lowell have purchased an old B'card credit card debt which I took out in 1999.

 

I put in a CCA Request in January and have today received a reply.

 

They have not sent any sort of copy of agreement,

and have only put my old address on a blank piece of paper with underneath saying

" YOUR RIGHT TO CANCEL:

Once you have signed this agreement you will have for a short time to cancel it.

 

Exact details of how and when you can do this will be sent to you by post by us", attached was some T & Cs for Barclaycard.

 

The reason this is urgent, is that Lowell have sent a stat demand for a different debt.

 

I thought with the card been taken out in 1999 they had to send a signed credit agreement?

 

 

 

LETTER FROM LOWELL

 

We are in receipt of you recent request for a copy of your agreement.

 

Your original creditor has provided us with the attached reconstituted copy of the credit agreement you entered into with them, which they confirm you would have signed prior to the granting of credit to you. Under section 77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 we are not obliged to send you an exact copy of your signed agreement. We are permitted by those sections of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 to provide you with a reconstituted copy of the version you would have signed.

 

We are also enclosing copy statements for your perusal and retention. Please be advised that the o/s balance shown on these statements does not match the o/s balance. This is due to the fact that they are only upto Aoril 2010 and our account was opened on 5 December 2011.

 

We would also confirm the following information as requested by the above act

 

Balance payable on your account £xxxx

Current state of your account : Defaulted

 

As we have now fully satisfied our obligations required following your request under section 77/78 of the consumer credit act 1974, we look forward to receiving your proposals for settlement of the account within the next ten days.

 

 

 

LETTER FROM BARCLAYCARD

 

I refer to your request for information.

 

The information we must provide to you under the terms of Section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (the *Act*) is prescribed by the Act and by the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983. Section 78 of the Act provides that, where a creditor receives a Section 78 request, the creditor shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (and any document referred in it) and a statement of the account.

 

I enclose a reconstituted copy of your credit agreement together with a copy of the terms of your credit agreement as varied in accordance with section 82(1) if the Act. This is a statement of the terms of your agreement with us and incorporates any variations to the terms since you entered into this agreement. However, the interest rates, fees and charges set out in the agreement may differ from those with discussed with you, due to the current status of your account.

 

what does your cra file say about this 'debt'?

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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CRA = Credit Reference Agency..

 

Equifax - Experian - CallCredit.

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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what is the defaulted date in the summary

 

and when did YOU last make a payment?

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hi Debtangel,

 

So the debt is nowhere near being Statute Barred - that'll be October 2015 or thereabouts.

 

Lowells or any instructed solicitors should be unable to take court action with what they've produced so far as a credit agreement. Or, if they take such action, you have a good chance of successfully defending.

 

Have you any penalty charges and/or PPI charges on the a/c. If so, you can reclaim these to reduce the balance owed. You can claim compound interest on penalty charges and this can greatly increase the amount you claim from BC.

 

If you don't have all your a/c statements for the last 6 years, get them by sending a SAR to BC by Recorded Delivery.

 

If you have the statements, go through them checking for penalty chgs and PPI.

 

:-)

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hi debtangel,

 

Write to Lowell and say that you would refer them to the Waksman Judgment in HSBC v Carey, paragraph 234 (4) which states that "if an agreement has been varied by a creditor under a unilateral power of variation, the creditor must still provide a copy of the original agreement, as well as the varied terms."

 

(Obviously every time they have changed the interest rate, charges or something similar, they have varied the terms.)

 

Tell them that in order to comply with the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPUTR 2008) they have an obligation to advise you if they hold the original agreement for this account and equally they have an obligation to inform you if they hold no such agreement.

 

Tell them that you will be forwarding their response to the Office of Fair Trading and the Financial Ombudsman Service.

 

DD

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  • 2 months later...

Hi there an update and further help if possible?

 

There is no PPI as someone asked above.

 

I included a view of your remarks into my letter inc the case mentioned in the last post.

 

TO CLARIFY AS I HAVE NOT UPDATED THE THREAD FOR A WHILE; THE SUPPOSED RECONSTITUTED CREDIT AGREEMENT WAS A PIECE OF PAPER WITH MY NAME AND PREVIOUS ADDRESS ON, NOTHING MORE.

 

REPLY FROM LOWELL

 

1. The original signed agreement need not to be supplied as a reconstituted copy of the agreement is sufficient provided it contains the name and address of the person as it was when the credit agreement was signed and

 

2. The terms and conditions of the credit agreement have been varied following the date entered into then a copy of the last varied terms should also be supplied.

 

In summary the information that has been sent to you in response to your section 77/78 request complies with all legal requirements and regulatory guidance and we are not aware of any other query you have against this account.

 

They have given me two weeks to respond.

 

Helllllllllllllllp please

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Other people will comment and jump in as this is not really my area

 

My suggestion, and only my suggestion is to attack the agreement on prescribed terms

 

As the agreement is dated before April 2007, s.127 (3) of the CCA 1974 will be applicable

 

What agreement was this, loan, credit/store card??

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as its a credit card from 1999 they WILL need the org signed copy

 

a recon is NO GOOD.

 

send the failure to comply letter

 

stop payment if you are making any

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

They have to provide the original agreement in court. They can not claim a reconstructed one under section 77/78 is an original copy.

Edited by postggj
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Have they actually issued a claim ?

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Hi debtangel,

 

You need to reply and ask them again for the agreement in a different way. Lowells are a little inclined to issue SDs and you want to avoid that because this is their tricky way of trying to get judgment without proof

 

There is no hurry.

 

I will come back to you in the next few days.

 

DD

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hi debtangel,

 

you need to reply and ask them again for the agreement in a different way. Lowells are a little inclined to issue sds and you want to avoid that because this is their tricky way of trying to get judgment without proof

 

there is no hurry.

 

I will come back to you in the next few days.

 

Dd

 

cputr 2008???

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