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    • I have had another good look around but still struggled to find any templates. I did find a defence on a thread that I have adapted below. I would greatly appreciate some input before I file it. Again, many thanks in advance.   Defence   1. I the Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.   2. It is admitted that I have had a supply and service agreement with Co-operative Energy in the past. During the period, Co-operative Energy actively blocked me from hanging to a cheaper tariff or switching provider as there was an outstanding balance on the account.   3. Throughout this period Co-operative Energy served estimated bills. This is shown in the one copy of a bill that the claimant has been able to provide. The claimant has given no details as to the full breakdown of their claim and what dates it relates to, so I am unable to defend specifically until the claimant can particularise and quantify its pleadings.   4. Pursuant to OFGEM code of back billing rules the alleged charges are now over 12 months old and relate to charges which have not been billed correctly by Co-operative Energy and are therefore prevented from charging.   5. The claimant does not have access to the agreement nor was the Assignor required to retain a copy. Therefore their claim is unsubstantiated.   Pursuant to the civil procedure rules Practice Direction 16 (7.3) Where a claim is based upon a written agreement.   1) a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement,  the original(s) should be available at the hearing along with a complete breakdown of how the charges accrued by date and amount.   With the court’s permission the Claimant is put to strict proof to: -   a) show and disclose how the Defendant has entered into an agreement. b) show and disclose how the Claimant has reached the amount claimed. c) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim.   6. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.   7. It is therefore denied that the defendant is indebted to the claimant as alleged or at all.
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SANTANDER car loan issues- being nasty - now sold to bluestone/close credit management?


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if they sell the debt on that will be good

 

it also means there is something wrong somewhere.....

haven't spotted it yet myself...

 

interesting comment..

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Well all been quite here after I sent Santander a letter stating again that I can pay £200pm

and that I had set up a standing order starting 10th May which is today.

 

Until today that is ...........

 

About an hour ago I had a call from a company called "Anglia" saying that they were acting on behalf of Santander.

I explained that I had numerous debts and would prefer to deal with everyone by letter as this allows me to keep up to date with it all etc etc.

 

The guy said they had written to me and I said well I hadn't had a letter so asked when it was sent.

.he said Wed so I explained it needed time to get to me and could well be in todays post.

 

He then asked if I would prefer to respond to that letter and I said yes so end of call.

 

Now the letter has just arrived in the post and has me worried. I don't have a scanner at home so will have to type it out.....

 

It states the agreement number and also states the vehicle but this is not an HP agreement

and so I have been informed they can't take the vehicle?

 

I have now missed three payments and so it states the arrears as £1200'ish.

 

The letter reads:-

 

We have been appointed to act as managing agents on behalf of Santander Consumer Finance.

By phoning this office in the next 48 hours and speaking to one of our negotiators we will be in a position to explain

the choices available to you and cease any intended action.

 

Please quote the reference number shown above.

 

In failing to contact this office we have been authorised to appoint an agent who may personally visit your home or work address to:-

1 Confirm your current address

2 Discuss the options open to you with regard to your agreement, including collecting payment of the full arrears,

or we can discuss the surrender of the above mentioned vehicle in order that the sale proceeds be applied to your agreement to reduce your liability.

 

Should it be necessary to take further action then you will be liable for additional costs as well as the fees that have already been applied to your account.

 

Now as you can imaging this has really got me scared and I'm worried about a Repo style man coming to my home or worse to my work.

 

The agreement is a personal loan and I have offered them £200 per month and started paying this today

but Santander have said on previous occasions that they want me to seel the car.

 

The car would not fetch much as I have had one or two little scrapes etc and it has high milege and I need it

and don't want to sell it for next to nothing then end up having to buy a another cheaper one that could have all sorts of problems etc.

 

Also they state that additional fees have already been applied to the account but I have written loads to Santander

explaining the situation and so feel this is so wrong.

 

So should I ring these guys back and just explain all that has happened/ Please help someone as I really don't want some thug calling round

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Black Horse Finance use these thugs too. They have no regard for the law at all, often turn up without a court order. They took a Caravan on finance and auctioned it with over £2500 personal items in side it. Sold the caravan for less than a third of it's value and still demanded £6000 left on the finance. You need to get these baboons sorted before they do turn up. They often forge signatures.

The Banksta Buster.

:-x :-x

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magna I question why you let that happen

but lets not frighten Alison

 

as for that letter

 

ignore it

 

do what you are doing

 

they CANNOT take the car..end off.

 

now as that letter directly [from your test] says they can visit your place of work.

 

I would write a letter of complaint to the oft, inc a copy of it

pointing out their unlawfull threat to attend a place of work.

 

that's as well as ringing a known works number is NOT ALLOWED.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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First point is that they can't turn up and take the car. The only way they could get hold of the car is if you voluntarily give it to them and you absolutely should not do that because it won't be the end of the story.

 

Second, don't speak to them on the phone. Don't go through any security questions with them (and if they don't ask the questions, report them to the Information Commissioner). Simply state "in writing only" and put the phone down.

 

Third, have you made a formal written complaint to Santander about how they have dealt with this matter?

 

Fourth, if you are feeling particularly assertive, go into a branch and make a hell of a fuss. Loudly demand to speak to the manager about your account. Asking questions like why they've appointed a bunch of low life thugs when you have made serious efforts to negotiate would be a good start.

 

Fifth, there is a letter template in the library dealing with proposed home/ office visits. Send it recorded delivery.

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Ok will do all things in the post and send letter off to them.

 

My file on Santander is at work but will fetch it later and then I will have the original agreement to hand too.

 

So if someone did turn up and got nasty like on Repo Man I can cal the police and ask them to remove them is this correct.

 

They are not from a court and I can show the orginal agreement to prove this is NOT a HP agreement and so they have no right to take the car. Is this correct?

 

I have sent letter of complaint off to Santander but had no reply and the standing order I set up starts today first payment to Santander.

 

Can you advise to the paperwork I need to read that states it is illegal to come to my work please.

..like to have the facts just in case.

Still terrified though.

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I didn't mention this to frighten Alison, just stated the fact that they have no regard for the law as the letter she received proves. Anglia think they are above the law.

The Banksta Buster.

:-x :-x

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"So if someone did turn up and got nasty like on Repo Man I can cal the police and ask them to remove them is this correct. They are not from a court and I can show the orginal agreement to prove this is NOT a HP agreement and so they have no right to take the car. Is this correct?"

 

They have no more right to attend your property than the milkman. If they turn up you should politely ask them to leave. If they refuse, are abusive or hang around, call the police. I think they are very unlikely to take the car as they have no legal basis for doing so. Entering into a debate about it with them would be a mistake. Just tell them to go away.

 

If they did make the mistake of taking the car, then report the theft to the police together with the details of whatever vehicle they use to take it away. Just to emphasise though, they are incredibly unlikely to do this.

 

The psychology of this is simple. They are trying to scare you and you should not them let them do this. The only way that Santander can legally pursue this matter is through the court. They can't take the car and they can't take money you don't have. Using a bunch of knuckle draggers to intimidate is 100% Santander and should be 0% effective.

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if they did take the car [and without you having anything to do with it]

 

then you would be entitled to the car & ALL you payments back as it would be an illegal repo.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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What you should do Alison is make Sun-Tan-Derr aware that you are holding them totally accountable for any actions / threats carried out by Anglia. Phone Sun-Tan-Derr and make this abundantly clear and take no nonsense from them.

The Banksta Buster.

:-x :-x

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Did you send the letter of complaint by recorded delivery or get proof of postage? Santander WILL lose correspondence when it suits them and so it's better to have proof.

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Yes will go get the file and ring Santander...

...feel a bit better now its just knowing the law and facts and once I'm armed with these (which I feel I am now) I feel strong enough to deal with them.

 

The car is parked on our drive overnight and it has two sets of gates which are bolted from inside as we have a dog

and so always keep these closed so that he can't get out.

 

They are not padlocked but are locked and so if they tried to get to the car I assume this would be trespassing as this is our property.

 

Its crazy that we were watching the Repo Man last night and I was saying "ooo I'd love it if he tried that with me"

now that something similar is happening I'm a total wimp and terrified ....

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Do you think I should ring them and just state that I want all correspondence in writing, that there is no way I will surrender the car and it is not a HP agreement so they would be wasting time and money sending someone. That I am going to ring Santander etc. At least it might stop them calling....

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Personally I wouldn't ring them.

 

Bear in mind that they are trying to intimidate you to pay more than you can afford and getting you on the phone is part of that process.

 

Debt collectors will say things on the phone that they wouldn't put in writing.

 

My personal favourite was "have you got a solicitor" when someone was threatening to take me to court.

 

There was a subtle message that their threat was serious and it was going to be expensive. In practice it was neither.

 

By all means complain and assert your rights but I wouldn't do it on the phone. Going into the branch and making a fuss is another matter...

 

Finally you should make it clear to Santander that they will be held to account for the behaviour of their agents. If their agents break the rules, then Santander are equally responsible.

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I have just carried out one of the HPI checks on the car and it stated that there was outstanding finance on the car!!!!!

 

How can this be the case when it was a personal loan and not HP agreement?

I posted a copy of the agreement in a previous post.

 

I done the check so that if someone did turn up then we could call the police and show them the original agreement

and state no HPI on it but now this is not the case.

 

I rang the company who done the vehicle check and they said they could ring Santander and ask them to remove it???

 

I said I don't think this would be useful as no way would they remove it etc.

 

My hubby has just got in and yes we know they cannot take it legally

but after watching repo man yesterday like he said if three huge guys turn up

and just tow it away like they did on the programme what can we do.

 

Terrified again now please help

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If they do happen to turn up, photograph them or even better, video them. Call the Police and say a theft is in progress. Sit in the car, they cannot attempt to tow it with you in it and if they try to drag you out, that's assault. Film it. Sounds more like threats more than anything. Can you hide the car away for now? Have you got a garage?

The Banksta Buster.

:-x :-x

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Well sorry but ended up ringing santander

 

who said that they couldn't make an arrangement as it is with Anglia..

 

...they were OK and one of first things they said was that no they can,t take the car.

 

....said I was disappointed with them and their lack of cooperation etc and that I was going to write in.

 

Then rand Anglia who also said they could not take the car ....

..and that taking everything into consideration would be passing back to Santander.

 

They did say it could get fished out a few more times etc.

 

Feel better now and going to follow this all up with letters Mon morning.

 

Going to switch off for the weekend to stay sane.....

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Well after all the scares from Fri I did calm down over the weekend but got in tonight and a letter from Santander waiting and well I just cannot believe it..

 

..letter is dated 8th may which must of been the day they passed to Anlgia and I quote ,

 

Despite our efforts to resolve this matter we are disappointed that the arrears, in the sum of £xxxxx, have not been paid.

 

Therefore, we have no alternative other than to pass this matter to our Collection Agent to arrange payment of the arrears,

or return of our goods. You may be liable for any costs involved.,

 

I just cannot believe the utter cheek of this company and quite frankly I,m rather mad!

 

Fist of all I have written time and time again,

have offered a very reasonable payment,

this is personal loan not HP...

 

..they state they have tried to resolve things which they have done no such thing and then to state

,return of our goods,

bloody cheek the car is not ,their goods,...fuming I am and

 

I think they may of just done the wrong thing as now I think I,m going to officially complain

and send to FOS if they respond in their normal ignorant bullying way!

 

What do you guys think?

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as they are claiming return of their goods I think this could be covered by CPUTR 2008 reg 5, Misleading Actions,Giving false information to or deceiving customers, and if it were me I think I would be getting Trading Standards involved

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Santander are appalling to deal with and you should complain. They will try to mislead you and delay matters when it suits. Back in the charges reclaiming days I had to issue proceedings under the Data Protection Act to get them to comply with a subject access request because when they did comply they knew that they owed me £10k.

 

It doesn't surprise me in the slightest that they have lied to you in their letter. It will more than likely be deliberate but they will no doubt claim that it was an innocent mistake.

 

I would write a letter of complaint about their unwillingness to negotiate, the lie in their letter and their referral of the matter to a collection agent when you have made every effort to resolve the matter. I would obtain proof of postage for the letter. You will then enter their complaints procedure which will probably take eight weeks to reach its conclusion before you can refer the matter to the fos. You could try asking them to suspend collection activity whilst they negotiate.

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Right starting on my complaint letter but gosh don't know where to start as I'm so bad at writing them!!!! Can anyone give me some pointers as to what to say?

Thx

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Head up the letter with the loan agreement reference, mention what the loan was for and say how many payments were made.

 

Explain the background to your financial problems briefly. Explain how you have arrived at your previous offers of payment figure. State that you have set up the standing order and confirm your commitment to pay off the loan.

 

List your attempts to negotiate with them as specifically as possible, i.e. the dates of each letter sent, a sentence explaining what it said with similar detail for any telephone calls you have made to them as far as you can remember. The aim here is to demonstrate that you have made every effort to negotiate and agree a reduced payment figure.

 

Refer to their decision to default you and appoint collection agents. Complain that they defaulted you without making a serious attempt to negotiate with you. Complain that their most recent letter refers to an hp arrangement and the repossession of goods. Tell them that you want a reply within 5 working days (they'll probably ignore this) and ask them to review your offer of payment.

 

Others may want to add or suggest changes to this.

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just on a point of info,which I never realised, apparently the lender can register a personal loan on HPI as part of the Govt Responsible Lending drive even though they have no claim or interest in the vehicle- what a cheek:evil:

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