Government gives out incomplete bailiff advice

[outlawla]

The Government now offers bailiff advice in its 2 part (GOV.UK) guide

 

Bailiff powers when they visit your home

 

Part 1 – What you can do when a bailiff visits

 

Part 2 – How to complain about a bailiff

Edited April 13, 2013 by outlawla

[BankFodder]

I think that it would be helpful if you would point out what is dodgy about it.

 

I think that it isn't so much dodgy as it is rather incomplete. It doesn't do anything to point out the futility of many of the courses of action which it suggests - and also the fact that it makes its suggestions without comment and uncritically makes it sound reassuring and that everything is well regulated and that everything will be looked after once the complaint is made - which of course we all know is not true.

[outlawla]

The biggest omission – there's no mention of involving the police, misleading potential victims to take the government's preferred routes which are in place to fob-off complainants.

 

I didn't see the form 4 suggested as an option.

 

Although admitting there is no legal obligation to deal with bailiffs in most instances, it goes on to irresponsibly imply that ignoring, or bypassing them will increase the financial burden.

 

Of course the police and "form 4" route will get you nowhere individually, but in numbers might have greater influence, however, while victims are deterred from taking these actions, the government has things nicely under control.

[brassnecked]

It is significant in what it doesn't say, that it would be a very BAD idea to let the bailiff in, as in vastly increased fees compared to keeping them out and preventing a levy wherever possible.

[seanamarts]

As Bankfodder has already pointed out, it is very sparsely written. It would help if there there were links to regs and more info explaining each criteria. Not iff so much but very very incomplete.

[HCEOs]

I'm not sure the Government would want to prevent their taxes etc. from being collected by advising debtors how to prevent a bailiff recovering them....

[seanamarts]

I'm not sure the Government would want to prevent their taxes etc. from being collected by advising debtors how to prevent a bailiff recovering them....

 

But we all know that bailiffs should do the work properly to regain what is owed if it is owed.

 

I think the Government and 'their agents' recovering monies owed need to be brought out of the dark ages and to start treating people with the respect they deserve.

 

Sending in the heavies is not always the answer.

[MagnaCarta]

But we all know that bailiffs should do the work properly to regain what is owed if it is owed.

 

I think the Government and 'their agents' recovering monies owed need to be brought out of the dark ages and to start treating people with the respect they deserve.

 

Sending in the heavies is not always the answer.

 

Here! Here! Well said.

[HCEOs]

But we all know that bailiffs should do the work properly to regain what is owed if it is owed.

 

I think the Government and 'their agents' recovering monies owed need to be brought out of the dark ages and to start treating people with the respect they deserve.

 

Sending in the heavies is not always the answer.

 

I agree to an extent and certainly if the debt isn't owed then clearly Bailiffs should not be used.

 

All I would add is that not all Bailiffs act in the way you describe and for those that do we would all like to see them removed from the industry.

 

It's never going to be a perfect solution but having poorly trained and the odd rogue bailiff dealing with debtors who lie and cheat their creditors is always going to be an issue that we all strive to resolve.

[MagnaCarta]

I agree to an extent and certainly if the debt isn't owed then clearly Bailiffs should not be used.

 

All I would add is that not all Bailiffs act in the way you describe and for those that do we would all like to see them removed from the industry.

 

It's never going to be a perfect solution but having poorly trained and the odd rogue bailiff dealing with debtors who lie and cheat their creditors is always going to be an issue that we all strive to resolve.

 

These are far from isolated issues. Bailiffs are low empathy people with one thing in mind - Money! Motivated by their aggressive tendencies and ability to lie. OK, there may be some in it who are pretty humane, but these people don't last long, it's just not how the Bailiff Industry thrives. These debt recovery firms are growing as fast as the payday lenders. They are all in the same category - out to squeeze the poor for all they have whilst inflicting misery and FEAR.

[brassnecked]

In defence of HCEOs and to add balance, he normally comes across won't pays who act like tax evaders and hide stuff to avoid paying when often they can afford, kill off and phoenix a company under another name to kill off debt, where we usually get the poor person or someone who is a genuine can't pay, and the bailiff is acting like a complete thug. So input from the frontline by HCEOs is welcome, especially as practical advice is often given.

 

Unfortunately we will see a disproportionate number of the thuggish ones on here due to the nature of the forum. We will rarely hear about any law abiding bailiffs.

[seanamarts]

I totally agree that we need bailiffs, but they all need to be trained fully and they need to drop the whole aggressive stance that many use.

 

They need to be trained in how to spot a vulnerable debtor.

[seanamarts]

It's never going to be a perfect solution but having poorly trained and the odd rogue bailiff dealing with debtors who lie and cheat their creditors is always going to be an issue that we all strive to resolve.

 

It needs to be a perfect solution. Rogue bailiffs need to be got rid off period!

[MagnaCarta]

Bailiffs need PDA devices that log where they are with GPS so they can't fiddle fees. Jobs should be allocated from the office and fees worked out there. Now there's an idea. If the likes of British Gas, Eon, BT and others use this PDA system, why not bailiffs? It would certainly prevent them from falsifying fees.

[HCEOs]

I understand the views held by many on this forum and appreciate that it is often for good reason. I also appreciate the fair and balanced views often held by the regular posters on here.

 

There certainly does seem to be two sides to the enforcement industry and the collection of some types of debt does inevitably mean that the Bailiff will often be dealing with people on extremely hard times and possibly vulnerable. I agree that in those circumstances enforcement action is not the correct method. With today's IT systems an attachment of earnings or third party debt order should the sensible option and in reality could be easily arranged and managed.

 

On the flip side some people need to acknowledge their responsibilities, whether to Local Government, the Courts or general creditors to pay the debts that are owed, hopefully long before it gets to enforcement.

 

I'm never going to 'win' on here but hope you understand I do try to be balanced and give advice where I can.

[HCEOs]

Bailiffs need PDA devices that log where they are with GPS so they can't fiddle fees. Jobs should be allocated from the office and fees worked out there. Now there's an idea. If the likes of British Gas, Eon, BT and others use this PDA system, why not bailiffs? It would certainly prevent them from falsifying fees.

 

Transport for London used to insist that all Bailiffs doing their work had trackers in their vans. I'm not sure if this is still the case.

 

The new fee structure coming in next year will hopefully resolve the problem anyway.

[MagnaCarta]

I understand the views held by many on this forum and appreciate that it is often for good reason. I also appreciate the fair and balanced views often held by the regular posters on here.

 

There certainly does seem to be two sides to the enforcement industry and the collection of some types of debt does inevitably mean that the Bailiff will often be dealing with people on extremely hard times and possibly vulnerable. I agree that in those circumstances enforcement action is not the correct method. With today's IT systems an attachment of earnings or third party debt order should the sensible option and in reality could be easily arranged and managed.

 

On the flip side some people need to acknowledge their responsibilities, whether to Local Government, the Courts or general creditors to pay the debts that are owed, hopefully long before it gets to enforcement.

 

I'm never going to 'win' on here but hope you understand I do try to be balanced and give advise where I can.

 

I agree to a certain extent with what you are saying. Ultimately, the LA is fully responsible for any actions taken against someone and how that is then enforced or pursued. The trouble is, the Council never does what ought to be the sensible thing, they just palm it off to their criminal Bailiff contractors. Councils really need to wind their necks in and deal with the problem DIRECTLY. They are PUBLIC SERVANTS, the sooner they realise that again we might get somewhere but the trouble is today, the councils have become FACELESS.

[HCEOs]

I agree with your last sentence wholeheartedly.

[seanamarts]

On the flip side some people need to acknowledge their responsibilities, whether to Local Government, the Courts or general creditors to pay the debts that are owed, hopefully long before it gets to enforcement.

 

I'm never going to 'win' on here but hope you understand I do try to be balanced and give advice where I can.

 

Its not a case of winners or losers on here HCEOs, CAG welcome all valued information given, regardless of the work position posters hold. Its whether the right information is given or not and when its a one sided view then debates tend to get a little heated. Which is certainly not what CAG is here for.

 

Please understand that posters come here when there has been a discrepancy with regards to how a bailiff has behaved. Advice is then given how to deal with that situation.

 

Admittedly there are very few post's where a bailiff has been praised for being right and acted accordingly to the regs. I myself have praised a few bailiffs for doing the right thing. But we are not here to praise, we are here to help those who have been mistreated.

Unfortunately its happens every day. That shouldnt be the case.

[seanamarts]

Im afraid its not just a few bad apples in a barrel, its often a barrel full of rotten apples and its hard to find a decent one.

[brassnecked]

@MagnaCarta "Councils really need to wind their necks in and deal with the problem DIRECTLY. They are PUBLIC SERVANTS, the sooner they realise that again we might get somewhere but the trouble is today, the councils have become FACELESS."

&* HCEOs "I agree with your last sentence wholeheartedly."

 

I agree also, the council has morphed from a publically accountable body, to one that ids controlling and bullying of itself, with no real check or balance on any muppetry it indulges in.