Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like

Thermagas t/a Warm or Wet (www.warmorwet.com) / Sirocco Fires - dreadful customer service


alanfromderby
style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 3615 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

I recently bought a Royal 400 Solo Gas Fire from warmorwet.com (Thermagas Ltd). When my Gas Safe engineer came to do the installation it became clear that the fire was faulty. He diagnosed it as a faulty gas valve.

 

I suppose I should have then smelled a rat when I contacted Thermagas to report the fault, as they said they were not responsible and directed me to the Sirocco Fires (the manufacturer) premium rate support line, which charges £1 per minute!

 

Eventually however, after I said I was not prepared to pay for a premium rate telephone call, and that it was their responsibility to resolve the problem, they agreed to call the company themselves.

 

A couple of days later I got a call back from a Sirocco engineer, who said that he could not come out for at least two weeks, but doubted that it was the gas valve. He said it was most likely an electrical fault and said he would send out the relevant part, which turned out to be a battery box. Please remember that this diagnosis was done on the telephone without looking at the fire, and totally went against what my Gas Safe engineer had diagnosed from a full inspection!

 

When the part arrived I called my gas engineer back, and again, nothing worked. His view was that they had just sent the cheapest part in the hope that it would "do the job" and save them having to come out and properly diagnose what was wrong.

 

I contacted the retailer and manufacturer again by email, and eventually the Sirocco engineer rang again. This time he said that he would order a full "tray", and when it arrived he would arrange to visit. I asked that he contact me with an update, as I did not want to allow the issue to drag on too long.

 

Two weeks passed by, and no call. I then rang and left a message with the engineer (no reply), and also contacted Thermagas by email. After a second email I got a promise that a message had been sent to Sirocco asking them to get in touch.

 

This morning I had an email from Arthur Wright, CEO of Sirocco, with an address in Poland. The email said that the parts were out of stock, and I would have to wait for at least a month before the parts would arrive in Poland from Italy, and then be sent to the engineer.

 

He also had the nerve to suggest that I would have to give them my Credit/Debit card number!!

 

I would warn anyone about buying this type of fire (or indeed any Sirocco fire) as clearly if you have a breakdown it is possible that parts will have to be sourced from Italy via Poland. I could understand it if the gas fire was old, but this model is available from numerous suppliers.

 

I would also suggest that for Thermagas to direct its customers to a £1 per minute premium rate telephone number, rather than seek to resolve issues themselves, cannot be said to offer good customer service.

 

The item was faulty when supplied, and I have to say that Thermagas Ltd (trading as Warm or Wet, Leigh St, Chorley) have tried every trick in the book to deflect me from my rights under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended).

 

I have no doubt that they have a stock of these gas fires from which they could obtain the required part, and could easily have arranged to get an engineer to visit and resolve the matter during the last month. Instead, I have been played between retailer and manufacturer.

 

I have now formally rejected the gas fire, and advised them that I want the matter resolving this week. I will update as things develop.

 

It is worth adding that this has been going on throughout the coldest March on record.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

It is clear that Thermagas are responsible for the goods which they supply and which they install.

 

I think that you should get quotes for whatever work is necessary to repair or to install and replace and then send them an LBA and follow up with a claim as quickly as possible.

 

I bet you will see a completely different standard of behaviour once the claim papers are served on them.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thermagas promised that a manger from Sirocco would call me back either last night or this morning. No call, no email, no surprise!

 

The issue as far as I am concerned is clear cut. Sirocco will not send out an engineer to inspect the fire, Thermagas (warmorwet.com) will not accept the fire back without an in situ inspection. So, it is a clear stand-off.

 

Claim now issued against Thermagas Ltd under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended).

 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, had a message last night from Arthur Wright, CEO of Sirocco, again stating that they have no parts so cannot repair the fire, and also accusing me of being unreasonable.

 

Somewhere, someone is missing the point. My contract is with Thermagas, and they have duties under the Sale of Goods Act. I have no contract with Sirocco whatsoever, yet Thermagas seem to believe they can sit back and do nothing.

 

The facts are simple, these gas fires are still being sold and are in stock. I understand that the fires are supplied by the manufacturer directly when an order is placed. Logic therefore suggest that there is a batch of new fires, with the necessary parts, that could be accessed today. The part could then be replaced when the new stock arrives. Simple. As yet, this simple solution has failed to get a response.

 

I think that another issue needs highlighting in all this, and that is the fact that Termagas (warmorwet.com) will not deal with technical questions and complaints about faulty products when you contact them. Their first advice is that you ring the premium rate telephone number supplied by the manufacturer. This number costs £1 per minute, and means Sirocco make money on the call. When will these companies learn that being a retailer comes with responsibilities which you cannot just delegate to others.

 

So, still no progress, no offer to resolve the issue, no date when the issue may be resolved, just complaints about me complaining!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Then send a "letter before action" to thermagas telling them that you expect them to adhere to the SoGA and they have 14 days to put things right or refund you your money otherwise you will issue a claim against them in the county court without further notice. If they dont play ball, do exactly that. help with templates available here.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The claim has already been issued.

 

Thermagas just wish to delegate the whole issue to the manufacturers, and have failed to make any agreement whatsoever to resolve the matter.

 

Their exact words are, "..the fire must be left in place for it to be tested for whatever the alleged fault is and a proper determination is made", yet they have failed to make any attempt to carry out this inspection. The original issue was raised with them on 8th March, and the only attempt to diagnose the problem has been by telephone - they have had 5 weeks.

 

SoGA requires that repairs be carried out in a timely manner, and that customers should not be inconvenienced. In cases where repairs are not possible in a reasonable time-frame then a refund or replacement should be offered.

 

The manufacturer (Sirocco) are basically saying that they do not have the parts so cannot fit parts they have not got. They will also not send out an engineer to properly diagnose the fault.

 

Basically, Thermagas have sold me a fire that (for whatever reason) does not work, and due to the alleged lack of spare parts is unlikely to be repairable for many weeks. Personally, I feel that parts could be obtained from one of the fires that are sitting in a warehouse waiting to be sold, since the same model of fire is still available at various retailers. However, this would require someone to get off their backside and actually wish to help resolve the issue. From the snide comments that have been forthcoming from Sirocco I am guessing that they are being somewhat disingenuous when they say they want to resolve the issue quickly.

 

Even without the fault, the product was not advertised as being an obsolete model for which spare parts were not easily available - perhaps another SoGA breach?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, another day goes by, and Thermagas, Thermagas Heating Ltd, Thermagas Spares Centre Ltd or thermagasplc.com, warmorwet.com, or whatever they want to call themselves, have now decided that the best approach is to totally ignore my requests for a resolution. I have offered Christine Whalley (Director), or Chris Whalley as she calls herself, a further week to come up with a solution, but they have made no attempt to agree a date to come and inspect the gas fire. It would seem that this company has no idea of their responsibilities under the Sale of Goods Act 1979.

 

From the look of it I am not alone having problems with this company: http://www.canyoutrustthem.com/index.php?go=details&id=20334

 

If you are considering buying a Royal 400 Solo remote control gas fire (made by Sirocco in Poland) please be aware that however good the fire may be, if it goes wrong you could well find that the company has no spare parts.

Edited by alanfromderby

 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

It is an interesting picture that is starting to form.

 

Thermagas Ltd have not filed their accounts this year, but are based in Essex, not Chorley. Thermagas Heating Ltd are based in Chorley, but are showing as "Dormant". With all their different trading styles it may be that they are actually unincorporated, which will make things much more interesting when it comes to enforcing any judgement.

 

I wonder if anyone can join the dots for me. I have seen something mentioned about "M W Distributions" being linked as well. I cannot believe that Chris Whalley is the only person involved, even though all roads seem to lead back to her.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 8 months later...

I have a similar problem, only difference I purchased the fire from The Fireplace Warehouse, (yes I didn't read this prior to purchasing the Sirocco Fire!!!!!)

I have put in a Warranty claim with Sirocco after The Fireplace Warehouse refuse to have anything to do with the fault., and now Sirocco are requesting debit card details prior to the visit via a link they have sent me, which I followed, the website fails all security certificate checks, and yet on that same website they are requesting the debit card details.....

 

 

If you could please let me know what the outcome was with Sirocco

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a similar problem, only difference I purchased the fire from The Fireplace Warehouse, (yes I didn't read this prior to purchasing the Sirocco Fire!!!!!)

I have put in a Warranty claim with Sirocco after The Fireplace Warehouse refuse to have anything to do with the fault., and now Sirocco are requesting debit card details prior to the visit via a link they have sent me, which I followed, the website fails all security certificate checks, and yet on that same website they are requesting the debit card details.....

 

 

If you could please let me know what the outcome was with Sirocco

 

Hi and welcome to CAG

 

What utter rubbish. Your contract is with The Fireplace Warehouse, not the manufacturer. I would write to them and remind them of their obligations under SoGA. The seller sorts it out then claims from the manufacturer.

 

Report them to Trading Standards as well

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

Please help CAG. Order this ebook. Now available on Amazon. Please click HERE

Link to post
Share on other sites

alanfromderby, is there an update on your situation with this company ?

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

Link to post
Share on other sites

Unfortunately, nothing as of yet,

 

this has been ongoing since the 8th of Dec 2013.

 

The Fireplace Warehouse (Seller) are not taking any responsibility of the fire being faulty, just getting passed around the houses,

 

Sirocco are repeatedly just asking for bank details, prior to the visit.

 

They are wanting my debit card details, which fails all safety certificates, isn't verified or authorized by any official bank/financial organization,

it is just simply a link which you have to copy and paste into your URL, which then asks you to type in your Debit Card details...........

 

I have had no reply or update as of yet, still waiting for answers, before undertaking legal proceedings which is my next step.

(trying to be reasonable and avoid this, but I don't think there is any other option)

Link to post
Share on other sites

if you paid by debit card use chargeback

if you paid by credit card use section 75.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 7 months later...
Hi,

i have 1 Sirocco fire which was in the house when i brought it and wanted another fire in another room but i wanted to know if your issues were resolved or not?

 

thread is getting very old.

 

might be better if you start a new thread

 

of you own

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...