First direct loan - been paying CL finance since 2007 - NO CCA

[cooldad]

Hi there.

 

I had a loan with First Direct in 2003 and they served a default notice on me in April 2004.

 

In July they passed it to Metropolitan Collection Services.

 

In 2007 the account was sold to CL Finance Ltd.

 

I decided to ask for a statement from CL Finance and they told me they could only give me statements from 2007

as that was when they bought the account.

 

If I wanted any previous statements or anything to do with PPI,

I would need to go back to the original lender - First Direct.

 

I wrote to First Direct and their reply was that they passed it to Metropolitan in 2004

and due to the time lapse they are unable to provide me with any statements prior to 2007,

nor can they provide me with a copy of any loan agreement and they suggest I get in touch with Metropolitan.

 

This smells a bit fishy to me. Aren't they supposed to keep files?

 

I would be grateful for your guidance.

[paulwlton]

Hi there.

 

I had a loan with First Direct in 2003 and they served a default notice on me in April 2004. In July they passed it to Metropolitan Collection Services. In 2007 the account was sold to CL Finance Ltd.

 

I decided to ask for a statement from CL Finance and they told me they could only give me statements from 2007 as that was when they bought the account. If I wanted any previous statements or anything to do with PPI, I would need to go back to the original lender - First Direct. I wrote to First Direct and their reply was that they passed it to Metropolitan in 2004 and due to the time lapse they are unable to provide me with any statements prior to 2007, nor can they provide me with a copy of any loan agreement and they suggest I get in touch with Metropolitan.

 

This smells a bit fishy to me. Aren't they supposed to keep files?

 

I would be grateful for your guidance.

 

Have you made the statutory section 77 request?

[cooldad]

I haven't as yet but I wrote to Metropolitan today with a CCA request so hopefully they will respond. I'll keep you updated.

 

Many thanks.

[cooldad]

It's now 5th May and I haven't heard from Metropolitan. I assume that the statutory time limit for compliance has now passed. What do I do now?

[dx100uk]

I hope you are not paying them still?

 

dx

[renegadeimp]

Two words come to mind here.....

[cooldad]

I am totally confused.

 

I've been making regular monthly payments to CL since First Direct assigned the account to them in 2007,

so I assume CL has owned the debt since then.

So where does Metropolitan come into this picture as the debt was passed to them in 2004?

 

I am also assuming that since CL has owned the account since 2007,

although they can't enforce it because First Direct cannot provide a copy of any loan agreement,

surely I still owe the money to CL?

 

What should I write to CL?

[Old Cogger]

No loan agreement = NO PAY,

yes you may owe them but without an agreement as a lot of theirs they cannot enforce,

you are just a cash cow to them,

paying them when they know they cannot take you to court without an agreement,

they are also defaulting you on the CRAs,

so tell them as has been suggested (THE TWO LETTER WORD)

THEY HAVE DONE YOU NO FAVOURS BUT TAKE THE PXXXs!

 

Tell them nothing, they will cry in their threatograms as DCAs do, but it will be retorick if there is not Signed Agreement.

 

Others no doubt will mention things to you as well, but stop paying them

[dx100uk]

sadly this is how 90% of dca'searn their money.

 

FLEECING people

 

dx

[cooldad]

OK, sorry to be a nerd but I'm still confused.

 

1. Who owns the debt?

2. What has Metropolitan got to do with all this?

3. Is CL a debt collection agency and who are their clients for this debt?

4. If CL is a DCA and Metropolitan is also A DCA how can you have 2 DCAs going after the same debt?

5. What sort of threats can I expect?

[renegadeimp]

1. Check your credit file.

2. Theyre a DCA that are spoofing you.

3. THeyre a debt buying/Debt collection company.

4. It is a blatant breach of OFT guidance UNLESS one of the companies owns the debt, and the other is acting on behalf. Check your credit file to find out.

5. Pretty much everything.

 

In short, get that CCA sent off as already advised so you can throw the debt into dispute. Do NOT pay a single penny until you get a reply that includes a CCA that complies with requirements.

 

YOu have been paying as you have stated, and you have been marked as a cash cow, so your account is being passed to and sold on to various DCAs so they can get their share of the money.

[cooldad]

1. It's not on my credit file as the default is over 6 years old.

4. How do I find out who owns the debt and who is acting on their behalf?

5. What legal action can they take? As I have been paying CL since 2007 can they claim that since I have been making regular payments it is understood that I owe a debt, otherwise I wouldn't paying them?

6. Who do I send the CCA to? As Metropolitan did not reply, should I send one to CCL?

[renegadeimp]

Cca goes to whoever you are paying or is chasing you. As I said, you are bwing cashcowed and you are being passed around various dcas who are hoping to get money from you. Stop payi g right now and get the cca requests going.

[cooldad]

OK Renegade, will do. Thank you for your advice. Wish me luck!

[cooldad]

Cca goes to whoever you are paying or is chasing you.

As I said, you are bwing cashcowed and you are being passed around various dcas who are hoping to get money from you.

Stop payi g right now and get the cca requests going.

 

I received a letter from CL Finance chasing me for money as I have not paid anything since you advised me.

 

CL Finance sent me a statement of my account from Oct 2007 to April 2013.

 

They said they could not provide me with any statements prior to Oct 2007 as it was assigned to them by HSBC Bank on 28 Sept 2007.

 

First Direct, as I said before, have already advised me that they are unable to provide me with statements prior to Oct 2007

nor can they provide a copy of any loan agreement. So therefore they cannot enforce the outstanding debt.

 

Now here's a word of warning!

 

I received a formal Default Notice on this account in 2004 and therefore you would expect that in addition to the fact that they cannot enforce the debt

they also can't issue another Default Notice and have it recorded with the CRA's. Wrong!

 

Currently I'm having another battle with Barclaycard who issued me with a Statutory Default letter in 2004

and they have now placed another default marker on my credit file!

 

When I told them about the 6 year rule, their reply was that the Statutory Default Notice letter I received in 2004 was not confirmation

that my account was placed in default and if I can provide a letter confirming that the account had been placed in default in 2004,

they can amend my credit file accordingly. Without this, the default notice from July 2013 cannot be removed.

 

I got on to the CRAs and they confirmed that a default had been placed on this account this month.

When I told them that I already had a default on this account in 2004,

they said once the 6 years are up the default comes off and they cannot retrieve any details.

 

So the bottom line is,

no they can't enforce the debt,

but if you have no proof that they have placed the debt before,

they can issue you with another Default Notice.

 

So be careful!

[renegadeimp]

No CCA = no pay. As dx state dback in may, you are being fleeced/cash cowed, and now they realise that you know it. So now they are trying to play the moral/guilt trip method of getting money out of you.

 

Regarding the default, if one was placed in 2004 for this debt, then it would have been removed in 2010. It cannot be readded or another one for the same debt added on to your file. If they do, then no payments are to be made, the account is thrown into serious dispute and you need to be making full and formal complaints.

 

As for them not adding a default for 9 years, you MUST contest this. It is a serious violation of OFT guidance and ICO guidance and MUST be challenged.

[dx100uk]

nope if there was a default

then the account will automatically falloff and VANISH after 6yrs.

 

so BC couldn't of actually placed the default

they might have threatened

but never placed it.

 

however

if you have a copy of your CRA file from the last 6yrs

that shows the old default

send it to the CRA people as proof it was there.

 

dx

[renegadeimp]

I think what you need to do here is SAR the OC, and find out for certain what the hell went on with this default.

[cooldad]

No CCA = no pay. As dx state dback in may, you are being fleeced/cash cowed, and now they realise that you know it. So now they are trying to play the moral/guilt trip method of getting money out of you.

 

Regarding the default, if one was placed in 2004 for this debt, then it would have been removed in 2010. It cannot be readded or another one for the same debt added on to your file. If they do, then no payments are to be made, the account is thrown into serious dispute and you need to be making full and formal complaints.

 

As for them not adding a default for 9 years, you MUST contest this. It is a serious violation of OFT guidance and ICO guidance and MUST be challenged.

 

I'm sending First Direct a SAR on Monday.

 

The account was assigned to CL Finance on September 2007 therefore First Direct no longer own the account. If what CL says it's true that First Direct only issued a Statutory Notice but never actually placed the account into default, then it would now be up to CL to issue a new Statutory Notice of Default. If that transpires, then on what grounds can I challenge that default notice?

[renegadeimp]

It is very very unusual for a creditor to enter a default 9 years after the default notice. Can i ask when this account ended or was closed/terminated? When was the last payment date of the loan to the OC? What date was the default issued? You may have a case to challenge the default.

 

Your SAR should give you all the info you need.

[cooldad]

It is very very unusual for a creditor to enter a default 9 years after the default notice. Can i ask when this account ended or was closed/terminated? When was the last payment date of the loan to the OC? What date was the default issued? You may have a case to challenge the default.

 

Your SAR should give you all the info you need.

 

Sorry Renegade, we seem to have crossed wires. By the OC do you mean First Direct or Barclaycard that I gave as an example?

 

I was paying First Direct from 2003, they issued me with a Default Notice in April 2004. Metropolitan Collections started to collect on behalf of FD in July 2004 and it was assigned to CL Finance in September 2007 to whom I have been paying ever since. At no time was the account ended/closed or terminated.

 

Regarding Barclaycard the debt was originally with Egg and I was issued with a Default Notice in April 2004. Barclaycard took it over in 2011 and they used Moorcroft to collect the debt, to whom I was paying ever since. Barclaycard placed a Default on my credit file as they claim that the Default Notice was never placed with the CRAs in 2004. At no time was the account ended/closed or terminated.

 

I will be sending off a SAR to First Direct tomorrow. With Egg it's a bit more difficult as they do not exist any more, which means that I assume I would need to send the SAR to Barclaycard. Is that correct?

 

So when you say I may have a case to challenge the default, I assume you are talking about Barclaycard as so far CL Finance have not yet issued a Default Notice.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

cooldad, you say you were sent a default notice in 2004, it seems to me that in fact the account was NOT defaulted at this point.

 

A DEFAULT NOTICE IS JUST WHAT IT SAYS, IT IS NOT A DEFAULT ON THE ACCOUNT.

 

A DN gives the debtor a certain specified time to put the account in order, if the debtor fails to do this then the creditor MAY default the account, as said it seems in this case no default was placed, that's why no default entry appeared on CRA files.

 

Creditors DO NOT report DNs on credit files.

[cooldad]

cooldad, you say you were sent a default notice in 2004, it seems to me that in fact the account was NOT defaulted at this point.

 

A DEFAULT NOTICE IS JUST WHAT IT SAYS, IT IS NOT A DEFAULT ON THE ACCOUNT.

 

A DN gives the debtor a certain specified time to put the account in order, if the debtor fails to do this then the creditor MAY default the account, as said it seems in this case no default was placed, that's why no default entry appeared on CRA files.

 

Creditors DO NOT report DNs on credit files.

 

So the bottom line is, although I've been repaying Barclaycard for the past 10 years, as I stopped paying in March this year, they were within their rights to enter a default on CRA files.

Similarly with First Direct, although I've been repaying the debt for the last 10 years, if I don't tow the line with CL Finance, they would be within their rights to enter a default on CRA files. In which case I'd better go back to continuing to pay CL Finance because although First Direct have admitted that they could not provide me with a copy of the loan agreement and therefore they can't enforce the debt, they can still enter a default.

 

How is this possible?