Thames water-Moorcroft debt collector-Asking lodger to pay debt

[bowcreek]

Hi Folks - I alongwith my wife lived as a lodger for around 6 months in one of the rooms in this property with resident live in landlord.

 

On one morning (November 2012) I saw a letter addressed to me mentioning "Urgent - Do not Ignore", and found that it was a letter from Moorcroft (on behalf of Thames water) asking for paying debt of around GBP 300 as a matter of urgency !!

 

I never ever contacted Thames water and had never had any agreement with them or requested their services at all ... Neither I ever gave my address to them nor I understand how they got to know that I live there as a lodger.

 

I was living there as a lodger and my lodger agreement (on a simple plain paper made by landlord) signed by me and the resident landlord clearly says that the rent is inclusive of all the bills including water.

 

I called Moorcroft and explained the whole situation and gave them my contact number - to which they responded that if you think that landlord should be held responsible for paying this rent - you need to talk and convince him for the same. !!

 

When I talked to the landlord he responded in a suspicious manner saying - "Just ignore these people and they can't do anything, I will write them a letter. Its just that they are trying to find someone who lives in this property who can respond to them as I am not responding to them due to a dispute I have with Thames water" .

 

After around 4 months, now I have started getting calls and texts from Moorcroft asking to get in touch which means that the landlord never responded to them and the debt is still outstanding...

 

I now live as a lodger at a new address and am concerned how can I get this off my head. I want things to be clear so that my credit history etc. doesn't get affected for future sake and obviously I am not the one who should be paying this debt..

 

Please would you be able to advice and help me asap?

 

Many thanks

 

Cheers.

[ncm-000]

I think a simple prove it letter will send them running for the hills.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?428-General-debt-letter-if-you-know-nothing-of-the-debt

 

If no agreement exists between you and Thames Water then I think they are on a hiding to nothing.

[Desperate Daniella]

Hi bowcreek, and welcome to CAG!

 

There shouldn't be anything on your credit history. Have you checked?

 

Thames Water will have your landlord as their customer (I would think). Moorcroft have no right to chase you for this debt.

 

Write to Moorcroft and tell them in no uncertain terms that the debt is nothing to do with you, and that you have never been a customer of Thames Water.

 

Tell them that if you have one more call from them you will report them for harassment to the Office of Fair Trading and also to the Credit Services Association. (I think Moorcroft are a member, but you can always check.) Also tell them you want their confirmation that your telephone number(s) have been removed from their system.

 

Your landlord is probably right - they are trying to get anyone from the property to respond. But it is his problem, not yours. And it is certainly not your job to chase the landlord on Moorcroft's behalf. What a bl**dy cheek.

 

DD

[Desperate Daniella]

The letter ncm-000 has suggested above will do just fine.

[bowcreek]

Wow ! You guys are stars ...!

 

Appreciate such quick responses. They are really a great help.

 

Would it be best to send an e-mail or write, print, sign the letter and post it to them using recorded delivery?

 

Who all should I send the letter to? TW and moorcroft both or just moorcroft?

 

Cheers

[Guest]

An email is a document and even with an automated reply its proof they received it, but if you prefer paper trail then any letter IMO is best sent recorded so you can know when they received it etc. I would write to TW directly and ignore the moorcrappers as I cant abide DCA's, also TW should advise them of any query, especially as your not the homeowner and have paperwork to prove its not even your debt.

[DonkeyB]

I don’t understand – why the ‘prove it’ letter? You know what the debt is actually about and whose responsibility it is, so why beat about the bush? It situations like this, relying on standard templates is lazy and pointless – and disingenuous, as you most certainly do know what it’s about.

 

Deal with the idiots head on!

 

You need something a bit more direct, that states clearly the debt has nothing to do with you, that it was the landlord’s responsibility, and that you are reporting them to the OFT fand ICO or breaches of debt collection guidelines and data protection breaches. Reiterate that they are already fully aware that you are not the debtor, and it was not and is not your responsibility to deal with the landlord about this. State that any further contact with you will be considered criminal harassment, and you will contact the police.

 

And don’t phone them unless you can record their lies!

[DonkeyB]

Also, copy your response, however you send it, to Thames Water, as they are directly responsible for the actions of their agents.

[Guest]

As I said I wouldn't even bother with moorcrap, this is the problem of TW and your landlord. you don't need to prove or disprove any amount, as this bill is not YOURS. Personally I would either email or write to TW advising you are not responsible, as a tenant with water etc included in your agreed rent and tenancy agreement with your landlord. I would provide your landlords name and I would forward letters from them to him/her. I would tell TW to sort out moorcrap, who are acting on behalf of TW with incorrect information and hassling you, causing distress and nuiscance. You can still report moorcrap if you want. But its TW who need to sort this out with the landlord, and certainly call of the dogs..i.e. moorcrap.

[DonkeyB]

Good stuff, RT. But always worth sticking a boot into Moorcroft...

[Guest]

Well yes DonkeyB I agree.......but in the end its up to TW to call off their dogs. moorcrap always dis-believe what they assume as the debtor on the info given by what they call their client.

 

A letter/email to moorcrap to upset them wouldn't take long to do, but they will hide behind the skirts of TW.

 

BTW nothing to do with this post....but I have had a recent run-in with TW, and just got a letter today telling me they took longer than the required 10 days to reply so have credited my account with £30....but still no reply to the actual email letter I sent lol roll on another 10 days? that will be half of the disputed bill paid lol lol

[ncm-000]

I don’t understand – why the ‘prove it’ letter? You know what the debt is actually about and whose responsibility it is, so why beat about the bush? It situations like this, relying on standard templates is lazy and pointless – and disingenuous, as you most certainly do know what it’s about.

 

Deal with the idiots head on!

 

You need something a bit more direct, that states clearly the debt has nothing to do with you, that it was the landlord’s responsibility, and that you are reporting them to the OFT fand ICO or breaches of debt collection guidelines and data protection breaches. Reiterate that they are already fully aware that you are not the debtor, and it was not and is not your responsibility to deal with the landlord about this. State that any further contact with you will be considered criminal harassment, and you will contact the police.

 

And don’t phone them unless you can record their lies!

 

I will keep my mouth shut in future - l leave all the heavy lifting and the basics to you

[DonkeyB]

I will keep my mouth shut in future - l leave all the heavy lifting and the basics to you

 

Don’t be daft – it’s a proper solution, but in this case possibly not the best! Stay right on board!

 

Water bills tend not to attract ‘agreements’ as such – you have no other choice of supplier, so the ‘contract’ is sadly a given.

[ncm-000]

Don’t be daft – it’s a proper solution, but in this case possibly not the best! Stay right on board!

 

Water bills tend not to attract ‘agreements’ as such – you have no other choice of supplier, so the ‘contract’ is sadly a given.

 

Before you jump down a newbies throat when he is only trying to help - think of the reaction you might get.

 

Yes the contract might be a 'given' but not to the OP. I suggested a 'prove it letter' as a first step to show the OP that he had a response and somebody cared. And it just might have sent them packing.

[DonkeyB]

I most certainly didn’t jump down your throat. Perhaps temper your posts with a ‘maybe’ if you’re so new to this? It’s how we all learned!

 

A prove it letter should be used when you genuinely know nothing of the debt – as the letter itself states. But the OP DID know what the debt was about, and the aim is to send the DCA and creditor packing so they won’t come back. A prove it letter would probably have led to more correspondence, not less, as his details had been given voluntarily in an effort to assist the creditor, a situation that the DCA has abused.

 

It would just have confused matters. Templates aren’t the be all and end all – every situation is different and needs tailoring. Sometimes direct contact, with the facts in your own words, is the best approach.

[Guest]

More than one way a prove it letter can help, its just me that likes to go for the jugular lol and TW have my back up at this time, for me the prove it letter would be too long winded in this case, but that's just my impatience ncm-000.

 

As a general rule I love a prove it letter, imagining the groan it gets when received at the other end lol.

[DonkeyB]

Before you jump down a newbies throat when he is only trying to help - think of the reaction you might get.

 

Yes the contract might be a 'given' but not to the OP. I suggested a 'prove it letter' as a first step to show the OP that he had a response and somebody cared. And it just might have sent them packing.

 

And sorry if you thought me blunt, but I am, after all, a ****** donkey...

[Guest]

[Desperate Daniella]

I don't use templates - I prefer really stinking letters! - but bowcreek is new and I know that some new members prefer to work with templates. The templates given on the forum are always accurate in what they say.

 

ncm-000: DonkeyB is an absolute sweetie really. When I made my very first post the response I got from another member was so rude and so awful I nearly gave up on the spot and never came back. Thankfully I don't think they are around any more.

 

It's absolutely right to let new posters know you are around and trying to help. I see you joined last month and it's terrific you are already trying to help others.

[DonkeyB]

It’s official, I am the nicest donkey you will ever meet – thanks DD!

 

Agree DD, but while the templates are generally OK, they usually need some tweaking to particular situations. I much prefer to see people trying to understand their situation rather than just doing it by rote. It’s like the rush to CCA requests without understanding why, which, thanks to several caggers increasing our understanding of the actual statute, can be a powerful tool in bringing debt buyers and DCAs to heel. Wrongly used, it can simply make you look like a debt avoider and bandwaggoner. Debt is a horrible place to be, but people need to understand that the law is there to protect debtors as well as creditors, and that templates aren’t necessarily going to get you off the hook. So we have to manage our CAG resources with respect.

 

Caggers like ncm are our lifeblood, and in a few hundred posts’ time will be grizzled old hands, I hope.

[Guest]

That's true DonkeyB, since joining CAG I have learned so much about so many things, and find myself in turn passing on advice or the place to find it....HERE of course. I have a long way to go before I get to the standard of the experienced Caggers but am getting there. So true the need to understand what and why when sending letters.

[Desperate Daniella]

I agree with what you are saying. And it's a huge learning curve. I remember reading everything I could about the CCA and the Regulations for about three months and I was so confused. :???:

 

Keep going, ncm. Only another 11,882 posts to go and you'll be as grizzled as Donkey.

[ncm-000]

I see you joined last month and it's terrific you are already trying to help others.

 

Yes I am new here, however, I have been fighting a lone fight against half a dozen of these bottom feeders for near enough 5 years now.

 

Also I am a seasoned Forum user and on some considered 'senior' or 'guru' status, so I do know my way around and there is nothing like a senior member jumping down the throat of a 'newbie' to make him think he is not wanted.

 

I am not one for using templates and some of my own letters would raise a few eyebrows here I am sure, but many are not as literate as myself and a few of the old hands here, so I suggest a template letter.

 

Finally I have noticed that there are about 5 or 6 'Big Guns' here who do all the heavy lifting and felt I could offer some basic advice of a simple nature, perhaps to ease the load on them.

I have found on other fora that 90% of questions are usually simple and easy to answer. The skill and hard work is in answering the other 10%, so if I can ease the burden on those answering those 10% then I feel I am contributing.

[Guest]

grizzled......

[DonkeyB]

Yes I am new here, however, I have been fighting a lone fight against half a dozen of these bottom feeders for near enough 5 years now.

 

Also I am a seasoned Forum user and on some considered 'senior' or 'guru' status, so I do know my way around and there is nothing like a senior member jumping down the throat of a 'newbie' to make him think he is not wanted.

 

I am not one for using templates and some of my own letters would raise a few eyebrows here I am sure, but many are not as literate as myself and a few of the old hands here, so I suggest a template letter.

 

Finally I have noticed that there are about 5 or 6 'Big Guns' here who do all the heavy lifting and felt I could offer some basic advice of a simple nature, perhaps to ease the load on them.

I have found on other fora that 90% of questions are usually simple and easy to answer. The skill and hard work is in answering the other 10%, so if I can ease the burden on those answering those 10% then I feel I am contributing.

 

I repeat, I did not jump down your throat, or anyone’s. More than one person suggested a prove it letter. I simply stated the obvious, that it needed a bit more.

 

Please keep doing what you are doing – people do this for nothing, to help others with their experience, and it’s very much appreciated.